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Cannot fulfill residency obligations anymore

timbolino

Newbie
Jan 16, 2020
7
0
I have already read some threads posted by people who don't have or will not meet the most important residency obligation: being physically present in Canada for 730 days within 5 years to maintain permanent resident status.
Well, this is also the case for me. I'm gonna explain my situation (trying to keep it as short and clear as possible) and would like to hear any opinions or advices (if there is still something that I can do do remain a permanent resident).

I'm a citizen of Germany and became a permanent resident in July 2016. In July 2016 I spent 2 weeks of vacation in Canada to formally finish the process and then left without having a PR card. At that time I hadn't even applied for one. For personal reasons I was not able to move over to Canada within the next 3 years and when the deadline (I mean the date from which on I still had the chance to fulfill the 730 days requirement) got closer I applied for a Permanent Resident Travel Document (PRTD). That one was issued to me with no difficulties. I finally made it into Canada in July 2019 just a few days before the deadline. I really had planned to stay for good so I applied for a PR card. However, for familial reasons I could not stay as I had planned and left after 4 weeks with my application for PR card still in process.
Two or three weeks later my friend from Canada (at whose place I was staying while in Canada) informed me that she had received my PR card and she sent it to my address in Germany via postal service. The card shows the following data: PR since: 24 Jul 16, Expiry: 27 Aug 2024.
On October 31, 2019 I went to Canada again, but only stayed for 9 days. This was mainly because I wanted to check if the PR card works and if I could enter Canada without any difficulties. As far as I can say, that worked fine.
On the first day after I had landed, I went to a Service Canada Center and applied for a social insurance number - with my PR card. The SIN was granted to me without hesitation.
Now I was thinking about finally moving to Canada as soon as have sorted out all my stuff in Germany. However, to be honest, I don't think this would be 100 % legal. I mean, I cannot fulfill the residency obligation anymore, but on the other hand I have valid documents that grant me to legally enter Canada and legally work there (remember: PR card valid until Aug 2024). So, would it be fraud, if I would do so? What are the chances that government authorities are already aware of this? Would I constantly have to fear a removal order?
If you guys have any opinion / advice on that I'd be glad to read it.

Cheers.
 

Buletruck

VIP Member
May 18, 2015
5,718
1,961
If you can enter Canada without being reported for RO by CBSA there is nothing illegal to entering and remaining in Canada. As long as you avoid interaction with CBSA and IRCC for the following 2 years, you would be in compliance again. There is no fraud involved.
 

canuck_in_uk

VIP Member
May 4, 2012
31,633
7,065
Visa Office......
London
App. Filed.......
06/12
I have already read some threads posted by people who don't have or will not meet the most important residency obligation: being physically present in Canada for 730 days within 5 years to maintain permanent resident status.
Well, this is also the case for me. I'm gonna explain my situation (trying to keep it as short and clear as possible) and would like to hear any opinions or advices (if there is still something that I can do do remain a permanent resident).

I'm a citizen of Germany and became a permanent resident in July 2016. In July 2016 I spent 2 weeks of vacation in Canada to formally finish the process and then left without having a PR card. At that time I hadn't even applied for one. For personal reasons I was not able to move over to Canada within the next 3 years and when the deadline (I mean the date from which on I still had the chance to fulfill the 730 days requirement) got closer I applied for a Permanent Resident Travel Document (PRTD). That one was issued to me with no difficulties. I finally made it into Canada in July 2019 just a few days before the deadline. I really had planned to stay for good so I applied for a PR card. However, for familial reasons I could not stay as I had planned and left after 4 weeks with my application for PR card still in process.
Two or three weeks later my friend from Canada (at whose place I was staying while in Canada) informed me that she had received my PR card and she sent it to my address in Germany via postal service. The card shows the following data: PR since: 24 Jul 16, Expiry: 27 Aug 2024.
On October 31, 2019 I went to Canada again, but only stayed for 9 days. This was mainly because I wanted to check if the PR card works and if I could enter Canada without any difficulties. As far as I can say, that worked fine.
On the first day after I had landed, I went to a Service Canada Center and applied for a social insurance number - with my PR card. The SIN was granted to me without hesitation.
Now I was thinking about finally moving to Canada as soon as have sorted out all my stuff in Germany. However, to be honest, I don't think this would be 100 % legal. I mean, I cannot fulfill the residency obligation anymore, but on the other hand I have valid documents that grant me to legally enter Canada and legally work there (remember: PR card valid until Aug 2024). So, would it be fraud, if I would do so? What are the chances that government authorities are already aware of this? Would I constantly have to fear a removal order?
If you guys have any opinion / advice on that I'd be glad to read it.

Cheers.
As above, nothing illegal. However, note that regardless of the PR card validity, you can be reported on entry for failing to meet the RO and lose your status. If you return, you should remain without leaving until you once again meet the RO.
 

PatwaBobby

Star Member
Mar 7, 2019
107
24
Last I checked, it is 2020, you can have the PR valid till 2024 without fulfilling any requirements, it's just if you don't after 2024 you can't have one
 

timbolino

Newbie
Jan 16, 2020
7
0
Thanks for your replies. Maybe I should add something:
Last weekend I received some mail (I mean by postal service) from Canada Revenue Agency. It was 4 letters, each of them with the following subject line: "Goods and services tax/harmonized sales tax credit (GST/HSTC) notice" resp. "Goods and services tax/harmonized sales tax credit (GST/HSCT) and Saskatchewan low-income tax credit (SLITC) notice".
The text of each letter says: "We determined that you are no longer eligible to receive GST/HSTC/SLITC payments. Please see the Explanation section for more inforation." Each letter refers to a separate payment period:
1. Jul 2016 - Jun 2017
2. Jul 2017 - Jun 2018
3. Jul 2018 - Jun 2019
4. Jul 2019 - Jun 2020
So basically these letters cover all the time since I became permanent resident.
And on the rear side of each letter it reads:
"You are no longer eligible for the GST/HSCT/SLITC for July 20XX to April 20XX for the following reason: - residency requirement not met"
Any idea what this means?
Fun fact: each letter mentions my new SIN, which was given to me in November but the letters were sent to my address in Germany although my new SIN is linked to a Canadian address. Apparently CRA was clever enough to link it to my "old" account - the one that I had while I was temporary resident and which I updated with my German address after I had left Canada back in 2014.

Due to this I'm actually afraid that government authorities do already know that I have already violated residency obligations. What do you guys think?
 

k.h.p.

VIP Member
Mar 1, 2019
7,876
1,724
Canada
Last I checked, it is 2020, you can have the PR valid till 2024 without fulfilling any requirements, it's just if you don't after 2024 you can't have one
No, 100% wrong.

The residency obligation is calculated from date of landing. You must have 730 days in the five years since the date of landing.

From then on, it's a rolling five year period - at any point with any interaction with CBSA/IRCC, you must have 730 in the previous 5 years.
 
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k.h.p.

VIP Member
Mar 1, 2019
7,876
1,724
Canada
Thanks for your replies. Maybe I should add something:
Last weekend I received some mail (I mean by postal service) from Canada Revenue Agency. It was 4 letters, each of them with the following subject line: "Goods and services tax/harmonized sales tax credit (GST/HSTC) notice" resp. "Goods and services tax/harmonized sales tax credit (GST/HSCT) and Saskatchewan low-income tax credit (SLITC) notice".
The text of each letter says: "We determined that you are no longer eligible to receive GST/HSTC/SLITC payments. Please see the Explanation section for more inforation." Each letter refers to a separate payment period:
1. Jul 2016 - Jun 2017
2. Jul 2017 - Jun 2018
3. Jul 2018 - Jun 2019
4. Jul 2019 - Jun 2020
So basically these letters cover all the time since I became permanent resident.
And on the rear side of each letter it reads:
"You are no longer eligible for the GST/HSCT/SLITC for July 20XX to April 20XX for the following reason: - residency requirement not met"
Any idea what this means?
Fun fact: each letter mentions my new SIN, which was given to me in November but the letters were sent to my address in Germany although my new SIN is linked to a Canadian address. Apparently CRA was clever enough to link it to my "old" account - the one that I had while I was temporary resident and which I updated with my German address after I had left Canada back in 2014.

Due to this I'm actually afraid that government authorities do already know that I have already violated residency obligations. What do you guys think?
CRA's residency obligations are different from IRCC's.
 

PatwaBobby

Star Member
Mar 7, 2019
107
24
I knew there was more to this post, sorry I did not read the entire thing, now I get that you applied for renewal and we're granted even when you did not complete obligations,
I don't know what to say in that case, maybe I'll reply later
 

k.h.p.

VIP Member
Mar 1, 2019
7,876
1,724
Canada
I knew there was more to this post, sorry I did not read the entire thing, now I get that you applied for renewal and we're granted even when you did not complete obligations,
I don't know what to say in that case, maybe I'll reply later
OP had not yet breached the RO when they applied for the card.

Please don't make sweeping statements like "you have until 2024" unless you've actually read the whole post :(
 

Besram

Star Member
Jun 13, 2019
87
28
[QUOTE="timbolino, post: 8427653, member: 952184"
On October 31, 2019 I went to Canada again, but only stayed for 9 days. This was mainly because I wanted to check if the PR card works and if I could enter Canada without any difficulties. As far as I can say, that worked fine.
[/QUOTE]

If I am not mistaken, you were already in breach of your residency obligation when you visited Canada on 31 Oct. You were somewhat lucky that you did not get reported at that point in time.

Were you in any way questioned about your compliance with the residency obligation, or even cautioned? What did they ask you?

It is possible they may have put something on your file - I have read of other cases where people got some leniency after being told off the first time they entered Canada, but when they tried the second time, they got reported.

Something to consider when you are planning your final move.

In regards to your initial question, as others have already said: there is nothing illegal about entering Canada when in breach of the residency obligation, but you face a risk of being reported every time you do so.

I would strongly recommend you stay put in Canada until you have accumulated 730 days of residency (provided you get in again without being reported). The consequences of being reported after you have already settled in with a job, home, social network etc. will be much higher down the track.
 

canuck78

VIP Member
Jun 18, 2017
28,132
6,101
The fact that you will not be compliant should be considered. Will your potential job require business travel out side Canada? Did you get married and need to sponsor someone. Without being compliant with your RO sponsoring a spouse would not be possible. I know the government is getting close to updating the custom systems to show entry and leaving records.
 

timbolino

Newbie
Jan 16, 2020
7
0
[...]
If I am not mistaken, you were already in breach of your residency obligation when you visited Canada on 31 Oct. You were somewhat lucky that you did not get reported at that point in time.

Were you in any way questioned about your compliance with the residency obligation, or even cautioned? What did they ask you?

It is possible they may have put something on your file - I have read of other cases where people got some leniency after being told off the first time they entered Canada, but when they tried the second time, they got reported.

Something to consider when you are planning your final move.
[...]
Actually there was something:
When I landed in Montreal on Oct 31 I got my PR card scanned at one of the kiosks, answered all the questions, took the white printout and showed it together with the PR card to a border officer. He asked me "When did you leave Canada". Not being prepared for such a question I got uncertain for a short moment but tried to remain calm. I answered "End of September" which was not correct since I actually left by the end of August but I felt it would be better to mention a date which was not too long ago and after the PR card was issued to me. He did not ask any further question, made some kind of marking on the printout and let me pass. Of course I did not feel good, since I was actually lying to a Canadian official. However, as far as I observed it, he did not write down anything, or made any kind of recording.
 
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timbolino

Newbie
Jan 16, 2020
7
0
The fact that you will not be compliant should be considered. Will your potential job require business travel out side Canada? Did you get married and need to sponsor someone. Without being compliant with your RO sponsoring a spouse would not be possible. I know the government is getting close to updating the custom systems to show entry and leaving records.
Well, if I go, I would go alone. No spouse, no fiancé, no kids or any other dependants. No one who would have to be sponsored by me. And I don't intend to take a job that requires travelling outside canada.
 

Besram

Star Member
Jun 13, 2019
87
28
Actually there was something:
When I landed in Montreal on Oct 31 I got my PR card scanned at one of the kiosks, answered all the questions, took the white printout and showed it together with the PR card to a border officer. He asked me "When did you leave Canada". Not being prepared for such a question I got uncertain for a short moment but tried to remain calm. I answered "End of September" which was not correct since I actually left by the end of August but I felt it would be better to mention a date which was not too long ago and after the PR card was issued to me. He did not ask any further question, made some kind of marking on the printout and let me pass. Of course I did not feel good, since I was actually lying to a Canadian official. However, as far as I observed it, he did not write down anything, or made any kind of recording.
1) This is not what I was referring to. This is a pretty standard question. I meant things like being explicitly cautioned, or lectured about your requirement to remain in Canada for 730 days. I'd say it is unlikely that anything was put in your file.

2) As you admit yourself, lying is not a good idea. You got away with it this time, but if they ever start asking follow up questions and you are being found out, this may very well eliminate any chance of leniency (remember, the border officials have discretion in whether or not they report you).

3) Montreal seems to be a bad choice if you want to increase your chances of not being reported. Even though the data is somewhat dated, it suggests that border staff in Montreal have been by far the most active when it comes to issuing reports:
https://www.thestar.com/news/immigration/2017/01/18/about-1400-immigrants-a-year-ordered-removed-from-canada-for-residency-non-compliance.html
 
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