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Canadian Marrying Immigrant on Overstayed Visa

BabyCat

Member
Feb 16, 2019
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53
Waterloo
Have spent a lot of time looking for answers and this forum has been the most helpful. If anyone could help me I would greatly appreciate it. Here is the story.

"Alex" was 26 when he came to Toronto from Poland on a Visitor Visa in February 2015 with his uncle's family. He was turned around at the airport for insufficient funds and sent back to Poland. He returned to Toronto in June with sufficient funds. He told CIC he was attending a family function, and was granted a 2 week stay in Canada, and had a notice stapled to his passport that he was required to report to Canadian Immigration authorities in two weeks time prior to his departure.

He never showed up. There is anecdotal evidence that he managed to gain a visitors visa, but if true he never had it extended. He has been working illegally and under the table as an unskilled labourer in Canada for 4 years. He joined a social group in Toronto populated by many young ladies, and reached out to several hoping to find a Canadian wife.

My daughter Sarah was the lucky one chosen. She was a 20-year-old college student at the time. Alex began asking her if she wanted to get married about 3 months after they met. With his passport about to expire this year, Alex finally sealed the deal this week when he presented her with a diamond ring in a proposal she accepted.

While deeply suspicious of his intentions, we have helped Alex with many things over the last 3.5 years including work, medical care, etc. Our pleas to our daughter that she is too young to get married, and that committing to someone who has been breaking the law for 4 years is not the ideal way to start married life, have fallen on deaf ears.

Alex looked at different avenues to gain Canadian residency but without success. He is uneducated, has no technical or trade skills, and has minimal English language skills. On the "point system" he was not even close.

I was shocked to learn that Canada is totally onside with Alex's plans, and that his 4 years of working illegally and paying no taxes will pose no barrier to gaining permanent resident status in Canada... provided he marries a Canadian girl.

I am trying to understand what my daughter Sarah is up against when it comes to Alex being able to gain residency status and legally work in Canada (and get a health card/drivers license). From reading this great forum my understanding is that once they get married, that Sarah can start his inland spousal sponsorship application immediately. And I understand he does not have to leave Canada, provided they are married, and the inland sponsorship application is underway.

Sarah has been employed for about 2 months in a job that pays $40K a year. She still lives at home. I am assuming after they get married, they will get an apartment. Sarah has a student loan she is repaying and really couldn't afford to support them both living in expensive Toronto, so I am assuming that Alex will continue to work illegally until he gets his open work permit.

If Alex is caught working illegally during the inland sponsorship process, what would happen to that application?

How long does the inland spousal sponsorship usually take front to back?

I am assuming that if married no interview would be required to determine the legitimacy of the relationship?

If Alex was discovered in Canada before the marriage for over staying his visa and/or illegally working, would he be removed from Canada even though he was engaged and a marriage was upcoming?

If he was removed for overstaying his visa and/or working illegally could they then try the outland sponsorship path?

There is so much uncertainty that Sarah is up against that she is stressed out. Despite being 100% opposed to their plans, I don't want to feed her disinformation, and would like for her to at least have the facts. We have been to a couple of immigration consultants, but because his exact status with CIC is fuzzy... not sure if he is under a current removal order or deportation order... they couldn't help us much.

If anyone here has answers to any of these questions I would be eternally grateful.
 

Buletruck

VIP Member
May 18, 2015
6,687
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Alex probably already has a deportation order in place if he was required to report to CBSA and didn’t. I suspect, given his status, even if married to a Canadian there will be significant hurdles to overcome, given his status and the concern he is marrying to gain immigration status. There will likely be an interview. While it doesn’t always occur, there is a chance he may be deported once IRCC and CBSA discover his whereabouts. That would create a whole new set of problems to overcome. IMO, you and your daughter should probably be planning for a worst case scenario and hope that isn’t the result.
 

BabyCat

Member
Feb 16, 2019
14
0
53
Waterloo
Thanks Buletruck... much appreciated. Planning for the worst case scenario is the right approach. If he ignored the request to report that would definitely be bad. But although he never reported he says he did eventually get a visitor visa. Sounded fishy to me, but I am no expert.

I guess best case is that they never find out he has been working illegally, they process the inland spousal sponsorship, and het gets his PR. But I am wondering if CIC ever figures out (or cares) that he was turned away once at the border for insufficient funds, and has been here on his own with no visible means of support for 3 years (his uncle was deported in 2016)... so he has obviously been working the whole time.

I have zero immigration experience... so have no idea how "hard ass" CIC is about this kind of thing. I guess CIC also doesn't really care about ulterior motive... because there is no way to determine it.

Alex has abused the immigration system, tax law, and labor law for 4 years... which to me would be easy for CIC to discover if they did the least bit of digging... but the sense I get is they don't care.

But you are right... the worst case scenario is not impossible... and that should be the expectation. Thanks again!
 

scylla

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It's quite possible there may be minimal or no issues with the application. If I understand the information you've provided correctly, Alex and your daughter have been dating for 3.5 years. If that's correct, that's a long relationship history and this is primarily what IRCC will look at when assessing their application. Yes - Alex has been here a long with without status - but it's not like this relationship is just a few months old and he's immediately jumping into marriage. The relationship has a history that is almost four years long which demonstrates it's most likely genuine. IRCC will likely look at the application more closely since he's been in Canada without status for so long - however I think the length of the relationship with your daughter will override these concerns. He should be 100% honest about everything (status, illegal work, etc.) in his application.
 

Kayaker

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It's not quite true that CIC doesn't care about "ulterior motive" because that's the main reason why spousal sponsorships are rejected - when, rightly or wrongly, CIC concludes that the applicant is marrying for convenience, not love. Your daughter and "Alex" should definitely expect him to be called in for an interview, where an officer tries to assess whether he is marrying for love or convenience. If you're interested, you could search the forums and see posts from people who have been rejected, or who have had interviews, to see what kind of questions they ask, or for what kinds of reasons people get rejected. It might help you get a better idea of how this system works.
 

BabyCat

Member
Feb 16, 2019
14
0
53
Waterloo
Thanks Kayaker... I understand your point. I think it would be easy to prove there has been a long-term relationship... definitely not a sham marriage in that they have had a 3.5 year relationship. Whether it is for "love" or "immigration status" only Alex knows. But for my daughter it is love. So that would be all IRCC cares about... I am guessing.

What scylla is saying is what I surmised... but was shocked to learn... doesn't matter how much lying and deceit Alex has undertaken with respect to living and working in Canada... if he gets a Canadian girl to date and marry him... all is forgiven.

They aren't getting married for 1-2 years so guessing Alex is still subject to being removed if he is caught. He works in a fairly dangerous occupation, so would be easy to get an injury requiring hospitalization. I wonder if that would lead to his removal?
 

BabyCat

Member
Feb 16, 2019
14
0
53
Waterloo
Since from the information you have given, "Alex", is here illegally, working illegally, not paying taxes etc then report him. I easily googled and found this link

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/protect-fraud/report-fraud.html

You could start the ball rolling in immigration becoming "aware" of the situation, and his where about
Copingwithlife... you don't even know how tempted I have been to do exactly that. My fear is that my daughter would then move back to Poland with him (even though she speaks no Polish), and I would lose regular contact with her. Plus... I would really feel like a rat for the rest of my life. My hope is that she grows up a little during the engagement process and realizes that there is more to being married than young "love fever."
 

BABESANDI

Star Member
Jan 5, 2019
147
61
Have spent a lot of time looking for answers and this forum has been the most helpful. If anyone could help me I would greatly appreciate it. Here is the story.

"Alex" was 26 when he came to Toronto from Poland on a Visitor Visa in February 2015 with his uncle's family. He was turned around at the airport for insufficient funds and sent back to Poland. He returned to Toronto in June with sufficient funds. He told CIC he was attending a family function, and was granted a 2 week stay in Canada, and had a notice stapled to his passport that he was required to report to Canadian Immigration authorities in two weeks time prior to his departure.

He never showed up. There is anecdotal evidence that he managed to gain a visitors visa, but if true he never had it extended. He has been working illegally and under the table as an unskilled labourer in Canada for 4 years. He joined a social group in Toronto populated by many young ladies, and reached out to several hoping to find a Canadian wife.

My daughter Sarah was the lucky one chosen. She was a 20-year-old college student at the time. Alex began asking her if she wanted to get married about 3 months after they met. With his passport about to expire this year, Alex finally sealed the deal this week when he presented her with a diamond ring in a proposal she accepted.

While deeply suspicious of his intentions, we have helped Alex with many things over the last 3.5 years including work, medical care, etc. Our pleas to our daughter that she is too young to get married, and that committing to someone who has been breaking the law for 4 years is not the ideal way to start married life, have fallen on deaf ears.

Alex looked at different avenues to gain Canadian residency but without success. He is uneducated, has no technical or trade skills, and has minimal English language skills. On the "point system" he was not even close.

I was shocked to learn that Canada is totally onside with Alex's plans, and that his 4 years of working illegally and paying no taxes will pose no barrier to gaining permanent resident status in Canada... provided he marries a Canadian girl.

I am trying to understand what my daughter Sarah is up against when it comes to Alex being able to gain residency status and legally work in Canada (and get a health card/drivers license). From reading this great forum my understanding is that once they get married, that Sarah can start his inland spousal sponsorship application immediately. And I understand he does not have to leave Canada, provided they are married, and the inland sponsorship application is underway.

Sarah has been employed for about 2 months in a job that pays $40K a year. She still lives at home. I am assuming after they get married, they will get an apartment. Sarah has a student loan she is repaying and really couldn't afford to support them both living in expensive Toronto, so I am assuming that Alex will continue to work illegally until he gets his open work permit.

If Alex is caught working illegally during the inland sponsorship process, what would happen to that application?

How long does the inland spousal sponsorship usually take front to back?

I am assuming that if married no interview would be required to determine the legitimacy of the relationship?

If Alex was discovered in Canada before the marriage for over staying his visa and/or illegally working, would he be removed from Canada even though he was engaged and a marriage was upcoming?

If he was removed for overstaying his visa and/or working illegally could they then try the outland sponsorship path?

There is so much uncertainty that Sarah is up against that she is stressed out. Despite being 100% opposed to their plans, I don't want to feed her disinformation, and would like for her to at least have the facts. We have been to a couple of immigration consultants, but because his exact status with CIC is fuzzy... not sure if he is under a current removal order or deportation order... they couldn't help us much.

If anyone here has answers to any of these questions I would be eternally grateful.
If he is caught by CBSA he will be send back home on an exclusion order for over stay. That will bar him from returning to Canada for one year.if he need to return he will need to file an ARC. If he is send back home your daughter can file an outland sponsership application to bring him back. If its within the one year and the exclusion order is still in effect the ARC will be filed within the context of the application. If the cops or anyone of such finds out he is here illegally then they will turn him over to CBSA.
 

BABESANDI

Star Member
Jan 5, 2019
147
61
Since from the information you have given, "Alex", is here illegally, working illegally, not paying taxes etc then report him. I easily googled and found this link

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/protect-fraud/report-fraud.html

You could start the ball rolling in immigration becoming "aware" of the situation, and his where about
That would be devastating to her daughter who is in a almost 4 year relationship. Plus they are not even married yet so a spousal sponsership wouldnt be likely, and they have never lived together so all other means of proving common law wouldnt work. I say let them be, hopefully this Alex threats her daughter well, and doent have any ulterior motive.
 

Eveslm

Champion Member
Jun 21, 2018
1,060
295
Edmonton
Category........
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If Alex is caught working illegally during the inland sponsorship process, what would happen to that application?
Best he does not work without a permit when they apply for PR.


How long does the inland spousal sponsorship usually take front to back?
12 Months, more or less. The more complicated a case is there longer it takes.


I am assuming that if married no interview would be required to determine the legitimacy of the relationship?
There's a lot of red flags....there probably will be one


If Alex was discovered in Canada before the marriage for over staying his visa and/or illegally working, would he be removed from Canada even though he was engaged and a marriage was upcoming?
Yes he would. Being engaged does not give one implied status.


If he was removed for overstaying his visa and/or working illegally could they then try the outland sponsorship path?
Yes they could, provided they were married before he left, or your daughters goes over there ad gets married to him. However it still wont remove the red flags, so you should be prepared for anything. Interviews, rejection etc. With the outland application, they would be able to appeal if rejected and hope for the best


There is so much uncertainty that Sarah is up against that she is stressed out. Despite being 100% opposed to their plans, I don't want to feed her disinformation, and would like for her to at least have the facts. We have been to a couple of immigration consultants, but because his exact status with CIC is fuzzy... not sure if he is under a current removal order or deportation order... they couldn't help us much.
He probably was given an exclusion order thats why he was supposed to report....and probably had a deportation order. The fact that he is not being honest with you/ your daughter should also be a red flag to you....doesn't have the best intentions
 

Buletruck

VIP Member
May 18, 2015
6,687
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I guess best case is that they never find out he has been working illegally, they process the inland spousal sponsorship, and het gets his PR. But I am wondering if CIC ever figures out (or cares) that he was turned away once at the border for insufficient funds, and has been here on his own with no visible means of support for 3 years (his uncle was deported in 2016)... so he has obviously been working the whole time.
They need to be very aware that all the questions on the applications have to be answered truthfully. It means full disclosure of relevant information, including overstaying, rejection and possibly his work history in Canada. Lying or failing to disclose could (and most likely would in this case) result in being charged with misrepresentation and a 5 year ban from Canada. Further, if it’s found out after the fact (like during PR renewal or a citizenship application), it can result in having his status revoked. So IRCC will figure out his history, one way or the other.

Honestly don’t envy the dilemma you are facing. There are some wise and knowledgeable member here who can help guide you through this, regardless of the direction you and/or your daughter choose.
 

canuck_in_uk

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May 4, 2012
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He told CIC he was attending a family function, and was granted a 2 week stay in Canada, and had a notice stapled to his passport that he was required to report to Canadian Immigration authorities in two weeks time prior to his departure.

He never showed up. There is anecdotal evidence that he managed to gain a visitors visa, but if true he never had it extended.
Everything else aside, if he was issued a 2 week Visitor Record by CBSA and did not apply to extend his visitor status, then CBSA may have issued an arrest warrant and a removal order.
 

BabyCat

Member
Feb 16, 2019
14
0
53
Waterloo
Very much appreciate all the very helpful responses. Thank you! I took Sarah out for lunch today, and although she knows I am furious with Alex, we still have the ability to talk. I tried to convey to her some of what you told me.

We were told by an immigration consultant that it would be possible to order a full immigration dossier from CIC on Alex's case, to find out exactly what his status might be... departure order, exclusion order, deportation order, arrest warrant, etc. I told Sarah that she *really* needs to find out because it will affect her future greatly. She agrees. But only Alex can request that dossier, and he doesn't want to, because he figures it will help CIC track him down. True to form... he said... "we aren't getting married tomorrow." More evasion and shirking of responsibility.

Sarah wondered if she should start living with him and they could start their common law marriage before their legal marriage. But I wondered whether that would open her up to difficulties with CIC in colluding with him to avoid his legal immigration responsibilities. I thought I read somewhere that that possibility exists.

Alex generally speaking is not a very compliant guy... so she can't really count on him to put on his big boy pants and deal with this issue. So there is no guarantee that he will get his dossier, fill out the paperwork he needs to apply for the inland spousal sponsorship, tell the truth about his history in Canada, stop working while he waits for open work permit, etc.

If Alex remains undetected until they get married, and Sarah starts the process of inland spousal sponsorship after marriage, and Alex is allowed to stay in Canada for that process... I guess they have a good chance of everything working out, but not a sure thing... especially if Alex continues to work.

If he gets caught prior to marriage, or if he is removed from Canada after marriage... Sarah says she can go to Poland and live with Alex and start the outland spousal sponsorship. But is that even possible? I would guess that a Canadian citizen applying for outland spousal sponsorship for their spouse would have to be resident in Canada when making that application. But not sure.

I told Sarah that Alex might be fun boyfriend material (although not sure why), but in his current state of maturity, he is definitely not husband material, and she should delay marriage for a couple of years until they are both more mature. Time will tell if that happens.

But I am trying to learn the issues here, so Sarah can really understand what she is up against. So I thank you all for your contributions.

BabyCat
 

scylla

VIP Member
Jun 8, 2010
92,935
20,541
Toronto
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-05-2010
AOR Received.
19-08-2010
File Transfer...
28-06-2010
Passport Req..
01-10-2010
VISA ISSUED...
05-10-2010
LANDED..........
05-10-2010
Very much appreciate all the very helpful responses. Thank you! I took Sarah out for lunch today, and although she knows I am furious with Alex, we still have the ability to talk. I tried to convey to her some of what you told me.

We were told by an immigration consultant that it would be possible to order a full immigration dossier from CIC on Alex's case, to find out exactly what his status might be... departure order, exclusion order, deportation order, arrest warrant, etc. I told Sarah that she *really* needs to find out because it will affect her future greatly. She agrees. But only Alex can request that dossier, and he doesn't want to, because he figures it will help CIC track him down. True to form... he said... "we aren't getting married tomorrow." More evasion and shirking of responsibility.

Sarah wondered if she should start living with him and they could start their common law marriage before their legal marriage. But I wondered whether that would open her up to difficulties with CIC in colluding with him to avoid his legal immigration responsibilities. I thought I read somewhere that that possibility exists.

Alex generally speaking is not a very compliant guy... so she can't really count on him to put on his big boy pants and deal with this issue. So there is no guarantee that he will get his dossier, fill out the paperwork he needs to apply for the inland spousal sponsorship, tell the truth about his history in Canada, stop working while he waits for open work permit, etc.

If Alex remains undetected until they get married, and Sarah starts the process of inland spousal sponsorship after marriage, and Alex is allowed to stay in Canada for that process... I guess they have a good chance of everything working out, but not a sure thing... especially if Alex continues to work.

If he gets caught prior to marriage, or if he is removed from Canada after marriage... Sarah says she can go to Poland and live with Alex and start the outland spousal sponsorship. But is that even possible? I would guess that a Canadian citizen applying for outland spousal sponsorship for their spouse would have to be resident in Canada when making that application. But not sure.

I told Sarah that Alex might be fun boyfriend material (although not sure why), but in his current state of maturity, he is definitely not husband material, and she should delay marriage for a couple of years until they are both more mature. Time will tell if that happens.

But I am trying to learn the issues here, so Sarah can really understand what she is up against. So I thank you all for your contributions.

BabyCat
- She can certainly live with him now. This won't create any issues for her legal or otherwise.
- Yes, if they end up in Poland, she can sponsor him using the outland process while they are both outside of the country. Canadian citizens are entitled to sponsor spouses / common law partners while living outside of Canada. As part of the application package, they will need to demonstrate that they plan to return to Canada to live there once the PR visa is approved. I can't imagine this will be a problem.