Can you move out of Canada after you get your PR and still keep it?

[uccemebug]

Thanks for your reply. I have done some more searching at it appears that resident for immigration purposes is distinct from immigration for tax purposes. In case it is of use to others, some links I found:
www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/nnrsdnts/ndvdls/nnrs-eng.html
www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tx/nnrsdnts/ndvdls/nwcmr-eng.html

Those are good sources. Be sure to take a good look at what you can realistically achieve on the checklist for severing ties with Canada when it comes to your non-residency. The CRA is developing a reputation for throwing audits at those of us who leave Canada and come back. Also, I can guarantee that it'll be of value to you to find a tax accountant in Canada who can deal with the issues of having income abroad for those years (such as 2011, I presume) during which you'll have tax obligations in both countries. Most accountants here don't know how to make the most of that situation and the tax return forms and guide sure won't help. I didn't declare myself non-resident when I lived in Australia for 18 months and thanks to the six-month difference in tax year as well as everything else, I certainly didn't know where to begin with filing on my own when I returned.

 

[uccemebug]

This is stupid of them, because if you do renounce U.S. citizenship to avoid the IRS, that doesn't magically absolve you of your tax liability. Besides, unless you are really, really wealthy, moving to Canada to avoid the IRS is kind of pointless; Canada is not exactly an income-tax haven. If you make less than about $95,000 a year, and live full-time outside the U.S., you can keep your U.S. citizenship and generally owe no income tax. Above that amount, any tax you pay to Canada counts against any tax you would owe the U.S. (I'm not a tax expert, but every source I've consulted about this agrees.)

Bottom line: the IRS is already one step ahead of you.

Agreed. But then $95k a year is nothing in the expat community living in Japan and elsewhere in Asia-Pac. My point is rather that Canadian citizenship shouldn't be viewed like some cheap flag of convenience in the shipping industry.

 

[ben_f_uk]

Those are good sources. Be sure to take a good look at what you can realistically achieve on the checklist for severing ties with Canada when it comes to your non-residency. The CRA is developing a reputation for throwing audits at those of us who leave Canada and come back. Also, I can guarantee that it'll be of value to you to find a tax accountant in Canada who can deal with the issues of having income abroad for those years (such as 2011, I presume) during which you'll have tax obligations in both countries. Most accountants here don't know how to make the most of that situation and the tax return forms and guide sure won't help. I didn't declare myself non-resident when I lived in Australia for 18 months and thanks to the six-month difference in tax year as well as everything else, I certainly didn't know where to begin with filing on my own when I returned.

Yes, it certainly will be a nightmare. Esp since Canada appears to be on a calendar year tax system while the UK is on an April fiscal year system. That won't be easy to reconcile.

 

[missmini]

I suppose the only big outstanding question at the moment is whether she does in fact need to be returning as a "resident" when I first land? It would be nice to read the rules here.

i didn't see clear rules abt this either...as long as she is with u when u land i don't think it matters...u can both go back to UK and finish what u need to finish...once u r a PR i doubt they check or enforce anything...but once u r a PR i don't think u can enter with visit visa: they do have record from ur name, passport that u r a PR and u would need to show them the card...at least this is my guess

abt the separation: some sponsors had this problem (not genuine relationship) and they reported it to CIC and the rest...the PR could be deported if it's found that he lied to the sponsor and in the applications, but if it's genuine separation i don't think anything could happen...under the old law what's done is done, under the new law (conditional PR for 2 years) the PR could be deported if the separation occurred during the conditional PR

 

[ben_f_uk]

abt the separation: some sponsors had this problem (not genuine relationship) and they reported it to CIC and the rest...the PR could be deported if it's found that he lied to the sponsor and in the applications, but if it's genuine separation i don't think anything could happen...under the old law what's done is done, under the new law (conditional PR for 2 years) the PR could be deported if the separation occurred during the conditional PR

That is interesting. What is the old/new law you are referring to?

 

[uccemebug]

It is similarly unfair to expect applicants to drop everything as soon as a visa is issued to take it up immediately.

Relocating to a new country is a big deal, granted. There are certainly plenty of stories in this country (and on this board) of people who have to deal not only with the bureaucratic lunacy and the logistics of getting to a new country but also pulling it all off with very limited means. To be honest the way some of these questions are framed (and here I'd include the woman who returned to the UK to give birth immediately following landing in Canada) I tend to value at some gut level the stories of people who present a case of working like dogs to get to the country and then do so without equivocation. I encourage you to take advantage of the opportunity you've been granted.

And I am not sure I see how it is a burden on the system.

Because the system's already crawling, and several of us have a sponsored spouse who'se life is on hold thanks to the bogged down nature of the system. We have already commited to Canada with both feet by being on the ground and toughing it out without every last detail in place. I advise you to take advantage of the opportunity you've been given.

Easy on the assumptions please guys. Personally I am from Norway, one of the richest countries in the world with one of the most developed and complete welfare systems out there. The country is absolutely booming and I am probably losing out on a lot of opportunities by living in Canada, so please don't accuse me of coming here to exploit the Canadian system.

Canada is probably the least likely place in the "developed world" to make a lot of bucks. Please also note that many Canadians have no clue about the outside world. Given we're in the middle of an election here there will be parties stirred up to make partisan comments and/or specifically signed in here to rail against foreigners magically taking advantage of the system. An argument that's been a crock of crap from the beginning.

My gut response in your situation is to apply now and do what you will after you've got the status in hand.

Best of luck to you both, alasken and ben_f_uk.

 

[Material]

That is interesting. What is the old/new law you are referring to?

Read the following link:

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/-t67718.0.html

 

[toby]

Exactly - they come here to get their health care needs all taken care of at our expense then leave and go back "home".

Well, they have to be physically residing in Canada to join the health plan. They can't di this if they go back "home".

 

[toby]

two things... first one is pretty obvious.. make sure you officially "land" to actually activate the PR visa and obtain PR status.... if you leave before you do that, the visa would expire and you'd have to start all over again

two, i think that if you are living abroad with a canadian citizen spouse you maintain PR status...

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/5445EA.asp

If she is a spouse, and a Canadian citizen, then yes, days spent with her abroad count toward the PR quota. For the poster who mentioned that it matters who accompanied whom, there was one case where the judge considered this aspect, but the majority of cases said that it doesn't matter who accompanies whom, that as long as the PR spends the time with a Canadian spouse, the time applies toward the quota.

Furthermore, this is stated clearly in one of the operational manuals (fully quoted and referenced in one of my emails a few months ago).

 

[toby]

Yeah this is true. The sponsor has to live in Canada at the time that you get your PR. If the sponsor lives abroad when you hand in your application you have to provide proof that he/she will be living in Canada when you get PR.

Not true. I am living with my wife in China. She is about to get her PR, and yes -- I had to show intent to relocate to Canada at some point in my application to be a sponsor, but there is no deadline. We will explore Canada together and then decide where to settle and when.

 

[uccemebug]

Not true. I am living with my wife in China. She is about to get her PR, and yes -- I had to show intent to relocate to Canada at some point in my application to be a sponsor, but there is no deadline. We will explore Canada together and then decide where to settle and when.

Do you expect any deadline to apply once you've been granted the PR status? Is it simply the two years residency in five years?

(PS, what's up with that year long delay in your signature??)

 

[steaky]

Do you expect any deadline to apply once you've been granted the PR status? Is it simply the two years residency in five years?

(PS, what's up with that year long delay in your signature??)

There will be a deadline for landing (before the PR visa expires) but not for relocation. They can return to China right after landing. But they can choose to relocate Canada at their convenience.

Since toby is Canadian citizen himself, both of them only need to accompany each other in order to maintain the PR residency of his wife.

 

[toby]

There will be a deadline for landing (before the PR visa expires) but not for relocation. They can return to China right after landing. But they can choose to relocate Canada at their convenience.

Since toby is Canadian citizen himself, both of them only need to accompany each other in order to maintain the PR residency of his wife.

That is my understanding Steaky.

Now begins the task of proving that we are together while abroad. There have been several discussions about what constitutes proof of living together. Normal proofs are relatively easy to produce: joint utility bills, bank statements, the occasional photo of places visited together, etc.

But the worry is always that we might encounter an unreasonable CIC officer on steroids, who decides to require unreasonable proof. Documentary proofs can be faked. Bank statements don't prove that two people lived together; only that they have a joint bank statement. Same with utility bills.

So what constitutes incontrovertible proof? A monthly photo of the two with the day's newspaper (and date) in clear view? In China (or any other country where newspapers are in other languages and English newspapers are not available, these photos won't work since CIC can demand that each photo be translated int English, with the translation certified. A huge expense.

I know, I may seem paranoid, but I'd prefer to do the creative thinking now, so as not to be at the whim of a CIC officer in five years time when PR renewal becomes necessary.

 

[toby]

Those are good sources. Be sure to take a good look at what you can realistically achieve on the checklist for severing ties with Canada when it comes to your non-residency. The CRA is developing a reputation for throwing audits at those of us who leave Canada and come back. Also, I can guarantee that it'll be of value to you to find a tax accountant in Canada who can deal with the issues of having income abroad for those years (such as 2011, I presume) during which you'll have tax obligations in both countries. Most accountants here don't know how to make the most of that situation and the tax return forms and guide sure won't help. I didn't declare myself non-resident when I lived in Australia for 18 months and thanks to the six-month difference in tax year as well as everything else, I certainly didn't know where to begin with filing on my own when I returned.

1) If you sever ties with Canada and then return within a few years, that might seem suspicious to CRA. They might suspect you always intended to return, in which CRA would want to deem you a taxpayer during the years outside Canada. CRA is more and more an instrument to interpret tax Law in Canada's favour, getting as much money as possible to fund Canada's expensive social programs.

2) But is CRA auditing those wh return after a decade? That's my situation.

3) An accountant who frequents the tax part of this forum, Jonathan, is experienced in cross-border tax issues.

 

[toby]

Do you expect any deadline to apply once you've been granted the PR status? Is it simply the two years residency in five years?

(PS, what's up with that year long delay in your signature??)

My wife has to do a new medical (once she receives her official letter from the Hong Kong consulate), and she will have up to a year after the date of the stamp in her passport to land in Canada. After she lands, and gets her PR card, she can live wherever she wants, and count those days with me toward her 2/5 year quota.

Of course, we didn't go through all this just to get a PR card. We do want to settle in Canada eventually, once we have consolidated some business deals here in China.

The long wait was due to backlogs in the Hong Kong visa office.