Can we orchestrate a mass complaint filing to CIC for disgraceful limbo?

[David2736]

I've been thinking of what we can do.

We can see the issues across the board - new digital applications are wrapped up in good time. Paper-based, pre-digital applications are almost forgotten until yearrrs later.

Can we all file complaints or suggestion messages to CIC in an organized matter? (also legally).

What do we think to this?

TY in advance for your time.

 

[CaBeaver]

I've been thinking of what we can do.

We can see the issues across the board - new digital applications are wrapped up in good time. Paper-based, pre-digital applications are almost forgotten until yearrrs later.

Can we all file complaints or suggestion messages to CIC in an organized matter? (also legally).

What do we think to this?

TY in advance for your time.

What do you suggest to do? How to file a complaint and to whom? People wrote to all people of charge including the minister of immigration, and all got the same response: surprise surprise ... Covid-19. If you mention 2019 applications compared to later applicants, they say it's a case-by-case thing. I am with an organized protest, but we need an effective one to pressure IRCC. I believe unless we attract the media attention, I don't think IRCC will change their strategy.

 

[David2736]

What do you suggest to do? How to file a complaint and to whom?

The CIC given feedback form page, all of us, at the same time, same day. I could provide the paragraph to send as a copy/paste. Somebody will notice.

If that fails, we all do the same to the next avenue of escalation. Maybe we all drop a tweet to Canada Immigration. Then maybe the press. The ones most likely aligned with immigration policy. Maybe also the ones that are funded publicly (CBC).

If everybody does it at the same time, every time, it'll be noticed. Otherwise on our own, we are whispering in to the wind.

I can organise this, but I want to check with the admins/mods here that it won't be a violation of rules etc. Hopefully they could do something like make it a sticky. Maybe we can find a paper somewhere for how to engage a government entity to make positive change effectively. Play it smart.

I am with an organized protest, but we need an effective one to pressure IRCC.

The facebook page? Yeah my case hadn't been waiting long enough @ 24 months

 

[CaBeaver]

The CIC given feedback form page, all of us, at the same time, same day. I could provide the paragraph to send as a copy/paste. Somebody will notice.

If that fails, we all do the same to the next avenue of escalation. Maybe we all drop a tweet to Canada Immigration. Then maybe the press. The ones most likely aligned with immigration policy. Maybe also the ones that are funded publicly (CBC).

If everybody does it at the same time, every time, it'll be noticed. Otherwise on our own, we are whispering in to the wind.

I can organise this, but I want to check with the admins/mods here that it won't be a violation of rules etc. Hopefully they could do something like make it a sticky. Maybe we can find a paper somewhere for how to engage a government entity to make positive change effectively. Play it smart.

The facebook page? Yeah my case hadn't been waiting long enough @ 24 months

My application also is close to 2 years. I am with any effective measure. The problem is that most people are afraid of retaliation if IRCC knew who are protesting their performance. Many tried to organize something, but nothing came out of it, even to simply tweet.

 

[justanotherguy28]

My application also is close to 2 years. I am with any effective measure. The problem is that most people are afraid of retaliation if IRCC knew who are protesting their performance. Many tried to organize something, but nothing came out of it, even to simply tweet.

I'm not sure if IRCC would systematically retaliate as an organization but there is usually that 5% or so folks in any organization that take things very personally. If you put your name in an official protest such as an email to the Immigration minister, I don't think they'll retaliate. If it's a tweet you should be able to tweet your situation anonymously (no name, no exact dates etc). It takes a lot of effort to locate your application, effort that IRCC definitely won't put in.

The problem is more structural. They have virtual guarantee no one will ever be fired. There is no performance measurement, whatever they have will probably be worth 2% of their pay, so no incentive to put in extra effort. Bureaucracies also have a tendency to join hands to isolate best performers among them and eventually get rid of them. At least client-facing bureaucrats such as Service Canada have to meet clients regularly so at the very least they have to have some empathy. IRCC is completely insulated. Unions also constantly use delays like this only to ask for more employees and more pay. It's a cycle and beyond a point things roll to a stop. I think IRCC is at that point.

But that's not a reason to hold back since two years is not acceptable. If I were you, I'd be writing a letter to local, federal legislators, immigration minister, your province's economic development /innovation minister and anyone who may be even remotely related to immigration. I'd mention, all the details with dates and also the total number of days passed, but in an easily-readable format and also stating "I will follow up with your office every 30 days until the IRCC starts processing my case again". If you want you can include your local IRCC office, you can do that too. Always add a list of cc.

You can also do other things like filing an Access to Information (not Privacy Act) asking for:
1. What is the backend process after an application is received?
2. What is done at AOR and why it takes 120+ days to perform it.
3. At what point is the application transferred to the local office and how its processed after that?
4. How are applications sorted?
5. When additional information is required to process the application either from the applicant or from another government agency, how are those tracked. If the information is received, how is the application put back into the queue?
6. What are the hiring and training procedure for case processing officers?
7. How do supervisors identify and intervene in inefficiency issues?

You can also as for the number of all applications in process at different stages.

You can keep going. You can add or remove/mix and match as needed or send these at different times.

As long as you're 100% sure you don't have any issue with the 1095 days (which some applicants have missed and didn't identify for a long time) or other technical errors, I'd do everything possible. Two years is a long time.

 

[justanotherguy28]

You can also take a different approach: If your job/personal situation allows, you can move to a different location that triggers an application transfer. Obviously this is a gamble. Also I think they have some rules on what triggers transfers (such as no transfers within GTA etc).

 

[cobie2]

Can we all file complaints or suggestion messages to CIC in an organized matter? (also legally).

You would be beating a dead horse. Your concerns have been hashed and rehashed for over a year in the following thread and nothing came out of it:

https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/citizenship-test-collective-action-required-or-expect-endless-delays-years-example-of-the-effective-lobbyng-of-people-awaiting-spousal-sponsorship.697691/

Your only option at this time is to pursue Mandamus individually.

 

[CaBeaver]

I'm not sure if IRCC would systematically retaliate as an organization but there is usually that 5% or so folks in any organization that take things very personally. If you put your name in an official protest such as an email to the Immigration minister, I don't think they'll retaliate. If it's a tweet you should be able to tweet your situation anonymously (no name, no exact dates etc). It takes a lot of effort to locate your application, effort that IRCC definitely won't put in.

The problem is more structural. They have virtual guarantee no one will ever be fired. There is no performance measurement, whatever they have will probably be worth 2% of their pay, so no incentive to put in extra effort. Bureaucracies also have a tendency to join hands to isolate best performers among them and eventually get rid of them. At least client-facing bureaucrats such as Service Canada have to meet clients regularly so at the very least they have to have some empathy. IRCC is completely insulated. Unions also constantly use delays like this only to ask for more employees and more pay. It's a cycle and beyond a point things roll to a stop. I think IRCC is at that point.

But that's not a reason to hold back since two years is not acceptable. If I were you, I'd be writing a letter to local, federal legislators, immigration minister, your province's economic development /innovation minister and anyone who may be even remotely related to immigration. I'd mention, all the details with dates and also the total number of days passed, but in an easily-readable format and also stating "I will follow up with your office every 30 days until the IRCC starts processing my case again". If you want you can include your local IRCC office, you can do that too. Always add a list of cc.

You can also do other things like filing an Access to Information (not Privacy Act) asking for:
1. What is the backend process after an application is received?
2. What is done at AOR and why it takes 120+ days to perform it.
3. At what point is the application transferred to the local office and how its processed after that?
4. How are applications sorted?
5. When additional information is required to process the application either from the applicant or from another government agency, how are those tracked. If the information is received, how is the application put back into the queue?
6. What are the hiring and training procedure for case processing officers?
7. How do supervisors identify and intervene in inefficiency issues?

You can also as for the number of all applications in process at different stages.

You can keep going. You can add or remove/mix and match as needed or send these at different times.

As long as you're 100% sure you don't have any issue with the 1095 days (which some applicants have missed and didn't identify for a long time) or other technical errors, I'd do everything possible. Two years is a long time.

Of course it's long time, and I am beyond frustrated, but I am not sure about all you said. At best they will say covid-19 and move on to your protest. I don't think anything other than media pressure can change IRCC strategy.

Someone emailed the minister of immigration, the PM, their MP, and a bunch of other officials, only to receive a response saying "due covid-19 .." or that "citizenship is not a priority ...".

I agree with you about accountability. Government employees and management in general are protected. They are not afraid. But how can you fix that? This has to be fixed by a policy from the top. We immigrants cannot do anything about it.

 

[Macarad]

It's also been over 24 months for my citizenship application. I was in touch with my previous MP. I recently wrote to the CBC and to my new MP, no response so far.

i've seen 3 elections (2 federal and one provincial) come and go since my application was received. I have missed important life events for fear of being out the country while an update happens on my file (and I will probably keep missing more of them).

it is an absolute disgrace the way IRCC has handled the situation and how newer applications have been rushed through the system while we are left to rot somewhere in the dark corners of their case management system

i am definitely down to trying something. I am going crazy just thinking about this everyday.

I like the idea of many of use sending the same message to someone.... but i doubt that IRCC will do anything if it is addressed to them specifically. Maybe if we try and try again with the CBC (and include in the message that we are many, many, applicants sharing the same message and in the same situation)?

 

[Macarad]

also... one the phrases that is kind of floating around that i think summarizes the situation is "Canada cares about immigration, but not immigrants"....

we are all just numbers to them and they are making decisions to make their stats look good

 

[cobie2]

also... one the phrases that is kind of floating around that i think summarizes the situation is "Canada cares about immigration, but not immigrants"....

we are all just numbers to them and they are making decisions to make their stats look good

Forget about any kind of collective action, nothing will materialize. Have you considered applying for GCMS notes to find out if there's anything in particular holding up your application? If you've passed the 2 year mark you may also want to look into Mandamus, or at the very least a demand letter from your lawyer to IRCC.

 

[Macarad]

Forget about any kind of collective action, nothing will materialize. Have you considered applying for GCMS notes to find out if there's anything in particular holding up your application? If you've passed the 2 year mark you may also want to look into Mandamus, or at the very least a demand letter from your lawyer to IRCC.

Thanks, I have never used a lawyer for immigration applications.

Actually, my application was going smoothly. Single applicant, no dependants, no prolonged residence in other countries since becoming PR. It was received on October 2nd 2019. Background checks where finalized in early 2020. I was even scheduled for the test in March 2020. When IRCC announced they were re-starting citizenship tests and would prioritize people who had their tests cancelled, I was nervous and excited. Silly me... but well, I was able to take the test until July 30th 2021. In august 2021 i received passport copies request. I received the same request last month from another office (I moved from MTL to Vancouver in November of 2020, but the file had not been transferred).

Every single time I contacted IRCC (before the Afghan crisis), they kept saying there were no problems with my file, and gave the same blanket "Covid-19" excuse.

 

[justanotherguy28]

Agree with

Of course it's long time, and I am beyond frustrated, but I am not sure about all you said. At best they will say covid-19 and move on to your protest. I don't think anything other than media pressure can change IRCC strategy.

I wouldn't say anything about protesting. I'd just make sure I'll keep writing to all involved on a regular basis and make sure they understand I won't go away without an update. At some point, they have to give in.

I also agree with cobie. You have to fight for yourself. Collective actions aren't going to work because lots of people will sign up in the beginning but most won't follow through either because they're suddenly seeing progress in their applications and no longer have any incentive or other life priorities have taken over.

You have to look out for yourself.

In addition to other stuff, if individual ministries are available under ATIP, I'd directly ask them (instead of/in addition to IRCC) on what their plan of action is to clear the backlog and restore efficiency in the system - no matter what cause the backlog whether COVID or Afghanistan. My focus would still be on my own application but I'd mention I've been receiving only these boilerplate covid-19 responses.

While writing to them, I would say if IRCC has any issues obtaining information from other agencies, I'd be willing to proactively get travel history from Customs, fingerprint background from law enforcement, and tax submission confirmations/transcripts from CRA and forward them to IRCC with the declaration all documents are true and unaltered under penalty of perjury.

You're just narrowing down the excuses they can give you.

I wouldn't say anything about others because I don't know what's in others applications. They'll easily pull out an application that didn't meet the 1095 criteria and shut you down. You can only speak for yourself.

@Macarad If you have trouble reaching out to national media like the CBC you should try others like the Toronto Star if you live anywhere in the GTA or your other local newspapers or local TV stations.

 

[CaBeaver]

... "Canada cares about immigration, but not immigrants"....
..

This summarizes the situation perfectly in Canada.

 

[CaBeaver]

It's also been over 24 months for my citizenship application. I was in touch with my previous MP. I recently wrote to the CBC and to my new MP, no response so far.

i've seen 3 elections (2 federal and one provincial) come and go since my application was received. I have missed important life events for fear of being out the country while an update happens on my file (and I will probably keep missing more of them).

it is an absolute disgrace the way IRCC has handled the situation and how newer applications have been rushed through the system while we are left to rot somewhere in the dark corners of their case management system

i am definitely down to trying something. I am going crazy just thinking about this everyday.

I like the idea of many of use sending the same message to someone.... but i doubt that IRCC will do anything if it is addressed to them specifically. Maybe if we try and try again with the CBC (and include in the message that we are many, many, applicants sharing the same message and in the same situation)?

IRCC works under the assumption that you must not have a life outside Canada, and it's plausible that they have used the covid-19 excuse to prolong the processing times specifically for this: to filter out those who would stay from those who would leave under prolonged processing times. Of course, this is a stupid thinking, because every Canadian citizen, no matter whether they leave after they become citizens or not, will eventually settle in Canada and bring capital and more experience to the market. It's a long-term investment.