Called CIC today and got starnge answer

[Marlee]

No it doesn't say that. High skilled (NOC 0,A,B) jobs are also subject to LMO requirements when an employer hires TFW. That means, both employers of grocery store bagger and professional accountant and engineers has to pay their respective prevailing wage (because that's one of the requirement for +ve LMIA) if they were to hire from outside of Canada. Now, is it easier, from employer's perspective, to pay a Timmy coffee maker the prevailing wage, or an accountant, or heavy-duty mechanics?

~

That's exactly the point.

 

[Regina]

foreign worker market and forcing employers to prioritize Canadian applicants even if they are less qualified.

No. Because they ARE citizens and PR of Canada. Every country protects its job market and its PEOPLE.

 

[praneet87]

No it doesn't say that. High skilled (NOC 0,A,B) jobs are also subject to LMO requirements when an employer hires TFW. That means, both employers of grocery store bagger and professional accountant and engineers has to pay their respective prevailing wage (because that's one of the requirement for +ve LMIA) if they were to hire from outside of Canada. Now, is it easier, from employer's perspective, to pay a Timmy coffee maker the prevailing wage, or an accountant, or heavy-duty mechanics?

Okay so in this scenario, most white collar entry level jobs (programmers, QAs, Web Designers, Accountants, Financial Analysts, Systems Analysts) have to have LMIA before they hire a student on PGWP? So that means its difficult for students with PGWP to get a job after studying in Canada because employers have to go through LMIA.

So in short if EE doesn't make provision for PGWP students then the whole Canadian Education System takes a hit.

 

[omaus25]

Okay so in this scenario, most white collar entry level jobs (programmers, QAs, Web Designers, Accountants, Financial Analysts, Systems Analysts) have to have LMIA before they hire a student on PGWP? So that means its difficult for students with PGWP to get a job after studying in Canada because employers have to go through LMIA.

So in short if EE doesn't make provision for PGWP students then the whole Canadian Education System takes a hit.

The way how EE is written states that.

It is frustrating, YES, and agree with you on your frustration. The main question here for me is this, why companies don't want to go through this LMIA process to retain their current workforce under PGWP?

Can anyone give and insight on this?

 

[praneet87]

The way how EE is written states that.

It is frustrating, YES, and agree with you on your frustration. The main question here for me is this, why companies don't want to go through this LMIA process to retain their current workforce under PGWP?

Can anyone give and insight on this?

I actually panicked a spoke to my manager and HR and they said an LMIA is not an issue; they can do it. But this ties me down to a job that I don't wanna do long term. I am still speculating that CEC might have an edge as they are a different stream.

Or else why would they have two different streams to apply?

 

[marcus66502]

I mean it is completely absurd for the government to pool in the PGWP workers with the FSWP.

That's nothing more than just your personal opinion, and a very convenient one at that. Another cry of "They can't do this to us!"

Why shouldn't they do this to PGWP's? Because they're still trying to get PR? Sorry but their interests don't fit those of the unemployed Canadians who are still trying to find work. Those Canadians expect their government to do what's right for their interests, and part of that is keeping PGWP's out of the job market when there is no certified need for them.

There is no hostility to PGWP's here. Regardless of how "special" PGWP's think they are in their heads, to the rest of us they're foreign nationals reaching for Canadians jobs, same as any other foreigner (it doesn't matter to the unemployed work force where you got your degree). The fact that you expect us to believe otherwise tells me that you just consider us stupid!

 

[jes_ON]

Okay so in this scenario, most white collar entry level jobs (programmers, QAs, Web Designers, Accountants, Financial Analysts, Systems Analysts) have to have LMIA before they hire a student on PGWP?
Oh dear, NO! First - if you have a PGWP, you are no longer a student.
Second:
- if you have a PGWP, employers are not required to obtain an LMIA.
- Under EE, you are NOT required to have an LMIA.
- Under EE, you DO need an LMIA if you want points for "arranged employment."

So that means its difficult for students with PGWP to get a job after studying in Canada because employers have to go through LMIA.

No. Again, no LMIA is required to hire someone with a PGWP. However, if a PGWP-holder wants the extra points for having "arranged employment," then the employer does have to apply for an LMIA.

So in short if EE doesn't make provision for PGWP students then the whole Canadian Education System takes a hit.

Or, perhaps when international students come over to study engineering, they won't take jobs as cooks just to get PR.

EE doesn't eliminate opportunity for students. It does reduce the loophole, by discouraging people from taking the cheapest 2 year course imaginable just to get a PGWP as a simple path to PR. I imagine that colleges will eventually feel the pinch. I expect it might encourage students who want to study in high-demand skilled occupations, as they will continue to do well.

 

[marcus66502]

It sounds fair, but by doing this they are going to kill the Canadian education system which is already shadowed by the US education system. If there is no certainty then students will opt to go to the US where salaries are higher and goods are cheaper.

Where exactly is all this coming from? WHERE is the evidence for it?

I find it strange that people who earn at or above the median wage would believe and make generalized statements like this, which have no basis in reality whatsoever. Are you saying this because you're angry that they're shutting out PGWP's without LMIA and need to say something which is consolation?

The Canadian education system will be alive and well because the vast majority of its students are domestic. More importantly (and I think this is what you were hinting at), there is no evidence that LMIA requirement will lead to a huge drop in foreign student interest in coming to Canada. The UK and the US have their equivalents of LMIA requirements for everyone, whether you're a new grad or not. Yet, their foreign student population has only grown.

And finally, no, there's no evidence that more students who were thinking about Canada are now going to go to the US. For one thing, university in the US is a lot more expensive. For another reason, they won't choose the US any more than they do now because the US does not give them any more options than Canada to immigrate after graduation.

Really? How are you going to get permanent residence in the US after your studies? What option gets you the green card and does not involve an LMIA? I can only think of one: the lottery. Good luck with that!

 

[marcus66502]

If you still keep saying that you'll be exempt from LMIA come January, there's something in me that tells me you don't believe that yourself.

I refuse to believe you're as shocked as you sound at the new LMIA requirement. That's how it is in your own country, it's how it is in most of the world, and if you've looked at any other country than Canada, you almost certainly know this.

Yet I see people avidly calculating their new scores under Express Entry. Hard to believe that they think they're skilled enough to immigrate as a Skilled Worker when they don't get the main thing: The points system as you know it is now dead. Lay it to rest, already! You need either a job offer with LMIA or provincial nomination.

It's going to be fun to watch those that submit EE profiles without LMIA in the next few months. They'll be going around this forum asking if anybody without LMIA has been selected yet.

Then after 12 months, their EE profile will be removed from the pool and they'll have to submit again, and again the year after that, and again the year after.

I'm not sure how many years of profile submission it's going to take for them to get out of the denial stage. It will be fun to watch though!

 

[omaus25]

Where exactly is all this coming from? WHERE is the evidence for it?

I find it strange that people who earn at or above the median wage would believe and make generalized statements like this, which have no basis in reality whatsoever. Are you saying this because you're angry that they're shutting out PGWP's without LMIA and need to say something which is consolation?

The Canadian education system will be alive and well because the vast majority of its students are domestic. More importantly (and I think this is what you were hinting at), there is no evidence that LMIA requirement will lead to a huge drop in foreign student interest in coming to Canada. The UK and the US have their equivalents of LMIA requirements for everyone, whether you're a new grad or not. Yet, their foreign student population has only grown.

And finally, no, there's no evidence that more students who were thinking about Canada are now going to go to the US. For one thing, university in the US is a lot more expensive. For another reason, they won't choose the US any more than they do now because the US does not give them any more options than Canada to immigrate after graduation.

Really? How are you going to get permanent residence in the US after your studies? What option gets you the green card and does not involve an LMIA? I can only think of one: the lottery. Good luck with that!

jajajajaja... I love you Marcus.... you are absolutely right! I am in the US and let me tell you, after graduation, what a f****ng problem to get the proper documentation to work as a professional under a regulated career, guess what that is, H1B, and even with this status, I am considering immigrating to Canada because it offers me the option of becoming a PR, not like in here where, yes I have the chance of becoming a PR but through a lot of many more steps and $$$$$ and after proving myself to this system over and over and over again.... Don't get me wrong, I love the US, but Canada has a lot of more respect for professionals when it comes to PR reality. I hope this makes sense.

 

[praneet87]

That's nothing more than just your personal opinion, and a very convenient one at that. Another cry of "They can't do this to us!"

Why shouldn't they do this to PGWP's? Because they're still trying to get PR? Sorry but their interests don't fit those of the unemployed Canadians who are still trying to find work. Those Canadians expect their government to do what's right for their interests, and part of that is keeping PGWP's out of the job market when there is no certified need for them.

There is no hostility to PGWP's here. Regardless of how "special" PGWP's think they are in their heads, to the rest of us they're foreign nationals reaching for Canadians jobs, same as any other foreigner (it doesn't matter to the unemployed work force where you got your degree). The fact that you expect us to believe otherwise tells me that you just consider us stupid!

Of course its a personal opinion. And yes it exactly a cry of they can't do this to us. What else did you think this was?

Now imagine the scenario of the students who came to Canada because there was a CEC and an opportunity for them to apply to PR after getting a year of experience.

All of them stuck in a limbo? And you think this is fair? The question of locals and residents getting an opportunity is completely out of the question. For CEC or PGWP candidates We HAVE a job. We've lived here, paid taxes, paid high education costs because there was an option of CEC. Pooling us with FSW is unfair as many of them have higher experience in years and will get a higher score.

 

[praneet87]

Where exactly is all this coming from? WHERE is the evidence for it?

I find it strange that people who earn at or above the median wage would believe and make generalized statements like this, which have no basis in reality whatsoever. Are you saying this because you're angry that they're shutting out PGWP's without LMIA and need to say something which is consolation?

The Canadian education system will be alive and well because the vast majority of its students are domestic. More importantly (and I think this is what you were hinting at), there is no evidence that LMIA requirement will lead to a huge drop in foreign student interest in coming to Canada. The UK and the US have their equivalents of LMIA requirements for everyone, whether you're a new grad or not. Yet, their foreign student population has only grown.

And finally, no, there's no evidence that more students who were thinking about Canada are now going to go to the US. For one thing, university in the US is a lot more expensive. For another reason, they won't choose the US any more than they do now because the US does not give them any more options than Canada to immigrate after graduation.

Really? How are you going to get permanent residence in the US after your studies? What option gets you the green card and does not involve an LMIA? I can only think of one: the lottery. Good luck with that!

Exactly. If there is uncertainty in both the countries why won't someone go to the country that has bigger job markets. A lot of students come to Canada with the promise of getting permanent residency on finding a job. If the government is going to pool PGWP and FSW then what is the point of coming to Canada and paying huge amounts of money in dollars as fees. They might as well stay where they are and apply for FSW.

 

[marcus66502]

Of course its a personal opinion. And yes it exactly a cry of they can't do this to us. What else did you think this was?

Now imagine the scenario of the students who came to Canada because there was a CEC and an opportunity for them to apply to PR after getting a year of experience.

All of them stuck in a limbo? And you think this is fair? The question of locals and residents getting an opportunity is completely out of the question. For CEC or PGWP candidates We HAVE a job. We've lived here, paid taxes, paid high education costs because there was an option of CEC. Pooling us with FSW is unfair as many of them have higher experience in years and will get a higher score.

What you're saying is that this country has no right to change its own laws at any time as it sees fit for its interests? What exactly is unfair? Were you promised permanent residence in writing by the Government of Canada when you decided to come here and study?

Whatever opportunity they might have thought awaited them after graduation, foreign students should know better than to think the law is etched in stone .... that is, if they're really as smart as the general populace holds them to be.

You have a job? So what? That entitles you to permanent residence? Don't make me laugh. You're damn lucky you're even allowed to get a job at all after graduation. Read omanus's post above about the options in the US to get a job after graduation, practically none (the H1B visa is very limited in number and because there's so many demanding it, it's essentially become a lottery).

So why do you b**ch about Canada? Because it's not giving you more than just permission to have a job. This is already more than you would have gotten in any other country worth studying at. I don't expect you to see how arrogant you sound, because usually arrogant people are too wrapped up around their heads.

 

[omaus25]

Exactly. If there is uncertainty in both the countries why won't someone go to the country that has bigger job markets. A lot of students come to Canada with the promise of getting permanent residency on finding a job. If the government is going to pool PGWP and FSW then what is the point of coming to Canada and paying huge amounts of money in dollars as fees. They might as well stay where they are and apply for FSW.

Man, you are done.... whether you like or not, you NEED an LMIA to apply for PR. Look for ways under your current circumstances and see what do you need to do to become eligible by a company to sponsor you through LMIA, instead of bit**ing about it. How is this helping you? Or anyone else in here for that matter?

If you do not qualify to be sponsored by a company, then maybe you need to look into what resume you have, what you bring to the plate and become better at whatever yo do, so a company can look at you as competent and market desirable as a potential hire, don't you think?

 

[praneet87]

If you still keep saying that you'll be exempt from LMIA come January, there's something in me that tells me you don't believe that yourself.

I refuse to believe you're as shocked as you sound at the new LMIA requirement. That's how it is in your own country, it's how it is in most of the world, and if you've looked at any other country than Canada, you almost certainly know this.

Yet I see people avidly calculating their new scores under Express Entry. Hard to believe that they think they're skilled enough to immigrate as a Skilled Worker when they don't get the main thing: The points system as you know it is now dead. Lay it to rest, already! You need either a job offer with LMIA or provincial nomination.

It's going to be fun to watch those that submit EE profiles without LMIA in the next few months. They'll be going around this forum asking if anybody without LMIA has been selected yet.

Then after 12 months, their EE profile will be removed from the pool and they'll have to submit again, and again the year after that, and again the year after.

I'm not sure how many years of profile submission it's going to take for them to get out of the denial stage. It will be fun to watch though!

Delusional. How high of a chair do you sit on to think like this? If that is the case then the cap the government has set won't even reach 20% of its limit. If keeping immigrants out of the country was ultimate goal then the Canadian government would have just curtailed the annual limit on FSWs. In an ideal scenario the median score would be around 450-500 for the pool with outliers being at 1000+. Im sure that every month people without an LMIA job will get ITAs and those with LMIA jobs will 100% get ITAs.