Calculating My times for citizenship (in and out of canada)

[AHBM]

Hello forumers,

I am greatly indebted to you guys for helping me out before and the immense information on the forum.

I am at the final leg of my immigration-citizenship and am now spending time to count towards my citizenship. I need your assistance.

- I applied within Canada, so I got all the work up done in canada.
- I stayed with my spouse throughout.
- My initial application was submitted on 21 August, 2012
- I got my PR confirmation on 31 Mar, 2015
- I came to my home-country (with my spouse) in December, 2015 and will be returning to Canada Sept. 2015

I need to calculate when my 3 out of 5 years will be completed. Could anyone please help me with this.

I am completely confused about this time spent from Dec2015-Sep2016 out of canada. See below from cic :

Calculation for applications received on or after June 11, 2015
Under subsection 5(1.01), a citizenship applicant can count time residing with their Canadian citizen spouse or common-law partner who was employed outside of Canada in or with the Canadian Armed Forces, the public service of Canada, or the public service of a province or territory, but not as a locally engaged staff, as time spent residing in Canada for the purpose of meeting the physical presence requirement for citizenship.

Also, under subsection 5(1.03), a citizenship applicant can count time residing with their permanent resident spouse, common-law partner, or parent who was employed outside Canada in or with the Canadian Armed Forces, the public service of Canada, or the public service of a province or territory, but not as a locally engaged staff as time spent residing in Canada for the purpose of meeting the physical presence requirement for citizenship.

If the applicant was accompanying their family member and the applicant became a locally engaged staff, that time can continue to be counted under subsection 5(1.01) or 5(1.03). The applicant’s employment status has no bearing on these subsections.

The following periods spent residing with the family member during the six-year period immediately before an application for citizenship may be counted:

any day of residence outside Canada as a permanent resident is equivalent to one day of physical presence in Canada;
any day of residence outside Canada not as a permanent resident cannot be counted.
Physical presence may be counted starting from the time the applicant has been able to establish that a common-law relationship began.

If there was no common-law relationship prior to the marriage, the time spent outside Canada before the date of the marriage cannot be counted as physical presence under subsection 5(1.01) or (1.03).

So when does my time start? [I was told by the PR lady that every day spent in canada with spouse after application amounts towards this time as well.]

Thank you for any support on this.

P.S I really hope I posted this in the right place.

 

[Bs65]

So your spouse is a citizen as not 100 percent clear in your post ?

Others can comment but never heard the PR lady comment that your qualification for citizenship starts from submitting application as opposed to from becoming PR so 31 Mar 2015 but as said maybe I missed that as that would be a very generous process if factual although the CIC site clearly says time only starts from when you become PR.

Assuming your wife is a citizen then believe time spent outside Canada with your wife counts , key being your wife being with you outside Canada and wife not in Canada whilst you are outside Canada so accompanying you others can confirm.

3 out of 5 years ? Here are words from official CIC site which supplement your post as physical presence when accompanying citizen outside Canada can be counted although others can confirm on whether the citizen actuall needs to be employed outside Canada.

You must have been physically present in Canada as a permanent resident for at least 1,460 days during the six years immediately before the date of your application. You must also be physically present for at least 183 days during each of four calendar years that are fully or partially within the six years immediately before the date of application. These requirements do not apply to children under 18.

Exceptions to these requirements apply for certain Crown servants and certain family members of Crown servants.

When calculating how long you have lived in Canada, you can only count time spent after you became a permanent resident of Canada.

My guess and is only a guess others can correct would still be 30 Mar 2019 when reaching 4 years or 1460 days out of 6 years discarding any time before becoming PR.

Check this calculator as well although pretty basic and does not account for accompanying spouse https://eservices.cic.gc.ca/rescalc/resCalcStartNew.do?&lang=en

 

[AHBM]

So your spouse is a citizen as not 100 percent clear in your post ?

Others can comment but never heard the PR lady comment that your qualification for citizenship starts from submitting application as opposed to from becoming PR so 31 Mar 2015 but as said maybe I missed that as that would be a very generous process if factual although the CIC site clearly says time only starts from when you become PR.

Assuming your wife is a citizen then believe time spent outside Canada with your wife counts , key being your wife being with you outside Canada and wife not in Canada whilst you are outside Canada so accompanying you others can confirm.

3 out of 5 years ? Here are words from official CIC site which supplement your post as physical presence when accompanying citizen outside Canada can be counted although others can confirm on whether the citizen actuall needs to be employed outside Canada.

You must have been physically present in Canada as a permanent resident for at least 1,460 days during the six years immediately before the date of your application. You must also be physically present for at least 183 days during each of four calendar years that are fully or partially within the six years immediately before the date of application. These requirements do not apply to children under 18.

Exceptions to these requirements apply for certain Crown servants and certain family members of Crown servants.

When calculating how long you have lived in Canada, you can only count time spent after you became a permanent resident of Canada.

My guess and is only a guess others can correct would still be 30 Mar 2019 when reaching 4 years or 1460 days out of 6 years discarding any time before becoming PR.

Check this calculator as well although pretty basic and does not account for accompanying spouse https://eservices.cic.gc.ca/rescalc/resCalcStartNew.do?&lang=en

I have just figured out that the rules just changed.. Could someone please confirm.

1. No longer 3 / 5 years rather 4 / 6
2. Must stay in country consecutively 4 years (min. 183days every year)
3. Time spent in canada before PR no longer included. (that is a bummer) [here is the previous laws mentioned on this forum : http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/does-the-time-spend-in-canada-before-pr-counts-t188264.0.html]

Do the new laws apply to me or the old ones?? This is putting all my plans out of window.

 

[Bs65]

So to clarify by initial application 21 August 2012 you mean of course application for PR ? And you became PR 31 March 2015.

So even under the old rules as I understand you could only claim one half day for each day in Canada for a period of 2 years so maximum 1 year actual credit before PR. So even assuming old rules could be applied which I do not have any knowledge about that might have given you 30 March 2018 assuming correct interpretation of accompanying Citizen spouse which still seems pretty vague whether that counts for just RO or citizenship as well plus whether employed outside Canada or not.

Anyway here is an archived document I found that sumarised the change effective 11 June 2015. http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=985219

Others need to pitch in with their feedback / experience on similar timelines

 

[AHBM]

So to clarify by initial application 21 August 2012 you mean of course application for PR ? And you became PR 31 March 2015.

So even under the old rules as I understand you could only claim one half day for each day in Canada for a period of 2 years so maximum 1 year actual credit before PR. So even assuming old rules could be applied which I do not have any knowledge about that might have given you 30 March 2018 assuming correct interpretation of accompanying Citizen spouse which still seems pretty vague whether that counts for just RO or citizenship as well plus whether employed outside Canada or not.

Anyway here is an archived document I found that sumarised the change effective 11 June 2015. http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=985219

Others need to pitch in with their feedback / experience on similar timelines

Yes correct.

1. The lady had told me that I have 1 year from pre-PR approval. and then after that I have stayed in Canada till Dec.
2. Then I came to my home land WITH my canadian-born spouse. So this time should count 1-1 as well.
3. So accumulating that :

365 days (Pre-PR Period)
365 days (31 Mar 2015 -16)
72 days (till today)
===
802

Previous duration requirement was 1095
1095 - 802 = 293 days. (from today). That would have made the target at 31 March 2017!

But if the new rules apply to my case then I would indeed have to wait till 2019!

smh

 

[scylla]

I have just figured out that the rules just changed.. Could someone please confirm.

1. No longer 3 / 5 years rather 4 / 6
2. Must stay in country consecutively 4 years (min. 183days every year)
3. Time spent in canada before PR no longer included. (that is a bummer) [here is the previous laws mentioned on this forum : http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/does-the-time-spend-in-canada-before-pr-counts-t188264.0.html]

Do the new laws apply to me or the old ones?? This is putting all my plans out of window.

The 4 / 6 rule applies to you. Time spent in Canada before you became a PR CANNOT be counted.

There is a bill proposed to change the rule to 3 / 5 and to count time spent in Canada before becoming a PR. However this bill hasn't been passed yet and may not come into law until sometime next year.

 

[scylla]

Just to add - time spend outside of Canada with your Canadian spouse does not and never has counted towards citizenship. It only counts towards your PR residency requirement. You need to be physically in Canada to count the time towards citizenship.

You've confused the citizenship and PR residency requirement rules.

 

[AHBM]

Just to add - time spend outside of Canada with your Canadian spouse does not and never has counted towards citizenship. It only counts towards your PR residency requirement. You need to be physically in Canada to count the time towards citizenship.

You've confused the citizenship and PR residency requirement rules.

Hmm.. I might have. However the archive which Bs65 has posted also alludes towards this change

 

[scylla]

Hmm.. I might have. However the archive which Bs65 has posted also alludes towards this change

No - it doesn't allude towards this even remotely.

While it's tiny and I can barely read it - what I believe you have quoted is the second that refers to the time spent in Canada pre-PR. This has nothing to do with spending time outside of Canada with a citizen spouse. Again, time spent outside of Canada with a citizen spouse cannot be counted towards citizenship. This time couldn't be counted previously, it can't be counted now and it won't count if the new citizenship bill passes.

You have to exclude time spent outside of Canada in your calculation.

 

[AHBM]

No - it doesn't allude towards this even remotely.

While it's tiny and I can barely read it - what I believe you have quoted is the second that refers to the time spent in Canada pre-PR. This has nothing to do with spending time outside of Canada with a citizen spouse. Again, time spent outside of Canada with a citizen spouse cannot be counted towards citizenship. This time couldn't be counted previously, it can't be counted now and it won't count if the new citizenship bill passes.

You have to exclude time spent outside of Canada in your calculation.

I was IN canada for the entirety of my application. It was an INLAND application. The part is talking about that though.

For bigger reading, right-click and open image in new tab.

Before
Time as a non-permanent resident (non-PR) may be counted toward residence for citizenship

After

Eliminates use of time spent in Canada as a non-permanent resident (non-PR) for most applicants (in effect June 11, 2015)

Again this is the archive of the citizenship eligibility page from before June '15 when it changed. (please right click and open image in a new tab)

--

As for time spent outside Canada, I kind of understand your point that the clause is particularly for maintaining the PR status and not addition towards citizenship requirement. BUT ... CIC website clearly allows inclusion of this time though..

Time spent outside Canada does not count towards the physical presence requirement except in certain circumstances.

You can count time spent outside Canada toward the physical presence requirement for citizenship if you:

Were a permanent resident employed in or with the Canadian Armed Forces, federal public administration, or public service of a province or territory; or
Resided outside Canada with your:
Canadian spouse or common-law partner, or
permanent resident spouse, common-law partner, or parent
who was employed in or with the Canadian Armed Forces, federal public administration, or public service of a province or territory.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=370&top=5

 

[scylla]

Was your spouse employed in or with the Canadian Armed Forces, federal public administration, or public service of a province or territory while outside of Canada? It's not enough to be accompanying your citizen spouse outside of Canada. Your citizen spouse must also meet the employment requirement above in order for you to count this time towards citizenship. You bolded selectively. If you read through that clause again - you'll see that simply accompanying a Canadian citizen spouse doesn't allow you to count this time towards citizenship.

 

[AHBM]

Was your spouse employed in or with the Canadian Armed Forces, federal public administration, or public service of a province or territory while outside of Canada? It's not enough to be accompanying your citizen spouse outside of Canada. Your citizen spouse must also meet the employment requirement above in order for you to count this time towards citizenship. You bolded selectively. If you read through that clause again - you'll see that simply accompanying a Canadian citizen spouse doesn't allow you to count this time towards citizenship.

got it..

So pre-PR is counted
Out of Canada not counted.

correct?

 

[scylla]

got it..

So pre-PR is counted
Out of Canada not counted.

correct?

No - not quite.

Out of Canada is not counted.

Pre-PR is not counted under the current 4 / 6 year rule. However there is a bill proposed to change the residency requirement to 3 / 5 years and also allow pre-PR time to be counted. If / when this bill passes and comes into law, pre-PR time will be counted. But again, as of now, you can't count pre-PR time.