British family with PR cards that have not yet immigrated to Canada

[finsols]

Hi
Myself, my wife and three daughters live and work in the UK.

We were issued with Canadian PR cards in Apr 2008. They expire in April 2013.

Just before we were due to move to Canada, the UK suffered a recession, and housing price collapse due to the downturn in the world economy.

Due to this the money that we had tied up in our property fell dramatically, the house did not sell and we could not afford to immigrate to Canada.

We are now in a position where we can begin to think about immigrating to Canada again and are considering moving towards the end of 2013.

Our PR cards will have expired by then and we will not have fulfilled the Canadian residency requirements that are needed to renew the PR card normally.
We require advice as to how to proceed from here please.

Some other info:
1. We were seeking to move to BC.
2. My father, step mother and other family have lived in BC for 30+ years
3. Our immigration application was on the basis of an 'entrepreneur' visa.

Thanks very much.

 

[finsols]

I should say that we 'landed' shortly after receiving the PR cards.

 

[Leon]

If you move before your PR card expires, you may be able to enter Canada without them reporting you for not meeting the residency requirements in which case you could let your PR cards expire and live in Canada without leaving for 2 years and then apply to renew.

However, if you came through entrepreneur class, there may have been some conditions on your PR as in open a business, invest so and so much, run it for 1 or 2 years, create at least 1 job etc. so if there were conditions like that and you have not fulfilled them, you may not be allowed to renew your PR card anyway.

You can see the current conditions here: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/business/entrepreneurs/arriving-conditions.asp but I do not know if they were the same ones you signed when you immigrated in 2008 or if they have changed since then.

 

[finsols]

Thank you Leon - that is very helpful.

Before we sell the house, pull the kids out of school, quit our jobs and book flights is immigration actually looking for reasons not to let us into the country?

Will they look at our situation and understand why we didn't come over in 2008 (after all the recession has been quite well publicised? ) or will they look at our recently expired PR cards and non fulfilment of the entrepreneur requirements and tell us to go back to the UK?

It will be an expensive and painful exercise if we are turned away at the airport.

I also think that if we were to have to go through an appeals process which could take many months or even years that we probably wouldn't undertake the move.

We do not NEED to move to Canada but would seek to do so for the benefit of our kids and the family as a whole.

As you will be aware the process of obtaining visas in the first place took over three years and a lot changed in the world in that time.

Many thanks again.

 

[scylla]

You can't be turned away at the airport if you arrived before your PR cards expire.

However there's a chance you may be reported by immigration officials for failing to meet residency requirements. If you are reported, you would have to appear before a judge to argue why you should be allowed to retain your status. Unfortunately finances / employment / education are not typically accepted as reasonable excuses for failing to meet residency requirements.

If you are not reported by immigration officials, then all you typically have do to is remain in Canada (without leaving even for one day) until you have fulfilled the residency requirement. You can then renew your PR cards. ***Note that I've said "typically" because your situation is made more complicated by the fact that you immigration via entreprenuer class and there may be different rules that apply in your case regarding starting a business.***

 

[Leon]

Before we sell the house, pull the kids out of school, quit our jobs and book flights is immigration actually looking for reasons not to let us into the country?

Will they look at our situation and understand why we didn't come over in 2008 (after all the recession has been quite well publicised? ) or will they look at our recently expired PR cards and non fulfilment of the entrepreneur requirements and tell us to go back to the UK?

I think they are very unlikely to be understanding of your situation. Being allowed to be outside Canada for 3 years out of 5 is more than any other country allows you for PR. Many countries will cancel your PR if you leave for as much as 6 months. If you had humane and compassionate reasons like having to stay in the UK to take care of your critically ill parent and you could prove it, they would probably give you a break though.

Basically, you have already lost your PR status a year ago because of the residency requirements. They just don't know it yet because they don't big brother every PR to know where they are at all times. You still have the loophole of being able to arrive before your PR card expires and I repeat that, before your PR card expires and will probably be allowed to enter without being reported for not meeting the requirements. That is also not guaranteed. The immigration officers have the right to report you if they believe you don't meet the requirements. They just don't seem to do it very often. They seem to prefer to give people the speech and then allow them in. If you were to get reported, they would still let you in but they would start the proceedings to revoke your PR and you would have 30 days to appeal that which you will most likely lose.

If they let you in without reporting you, if you were to apply to renew your PR card as soon as you arrive, you would almost certainly be refused and lose your PR status. However, there is a loophole that is that if you get into Canada as a PR who doesn't meet the requirements and they don't report you on entry, you can stay 2 years at which time you meet the requirements again and they will have to renew your PR card.. that is unless you entered into an agreement with immigration with certain requirements such as the entrepreneur program seems to have that you did not fulfill their requirements of having run a business for x years during your first y years after coming to Canada etc. then they can also refuse you. You can find a case here: http://canlii.ca/en/ca/irb/doc/2011/2011canlii89297/2011canlii89297.html where a family was removed from Canada recently after having not met their entrepreneur conditions although they had settled and were living in Canada since 2004. That is what really complicates your case. If you were a PR without the entrepreneur requirements, the 2 year plan would be pretty likely to succeed.

Personally, I don't think your odds are very good. I would definitely not sell the house or quit my job before leaving. If you still want to go I would arrange for people to pack up the house and ship it to you and arrange for it being sold after you leave if you get it in at all because in your situation, you don't know that for sure. Tell your employer you are going on vacation and may not come back. And even if they do let you in and even if you do successfully run a business for the 2 years your PR cards are expired before you try to renew them, you could still end up being refused and have to return to the UK because you didn't run the business exactly for the first years of having your PR.

It is probably a better idea for you to accept the loss of your PR status and look into if you want to apply again or not. You could also consult with an immigration lawyer about your case.

 

[finsols]

Thank you both - again that is very helpful.

Can I ask therefore if we were to reapply again (in the knowledge that we have PR cards already), would we have to go through the entire immigration application process again? As you will be aware, the application process last time took over three years and frankly, life has to go on in that time.

As existing PR card holders, is there a 'short cut' to reapply or a renewal process that we can investigate?

We cannot hope to wait another three years or more before we can get on with our lives.

Thanks again.

 

[scylla]

Unfortunately there's no short cut for those who reapply. You would have to go through the entire immigration process again.

Good luck in making a decision.

 

[Leon]

If you decide to re-apply, you must lose your PR status first. You would have to deal with the embassy with that. The reason being that you can not apply for PR if you are still officially a PR. And yeah, no short cuts for people who were already PR and lost their status. You can look at different immigration classes. Maybe there is a different class you could apply under now that is faster or better for you.

 

[finsols]

Thanks again.

I wonder whether we should investigate under other immigration classes. I note from the cic website that they are not accepting applications for 'entrepreneur' class anymore, which may make life easier.

My father lives in BC, as well as other family.

My wife is an accountant, I am a financial planner and a property management consultant.

Is there anything there that calls out to you to apply under another basis?

 

[scylla]

To qualify through the Federal Skilled Worker program, you occupation either needs to appear on the list below or you need a job offer in Canada:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/skilled/complete-applications.asp

In your case, I think either you or your wife would have to secure a job offer in Canada first to qualify.

Unfortunately BC does not have a family class stream - so your father cannot sponsor you.

You could also check out BC's business immigration or entreprenuer streams to see if you might qualify under one of those:

http://www.welcomebc.ca/wbc/immigration/come/work/about/business_immigrants/index.page?WT.svl=LeftNav

Hope this helps.