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Bad news for TFW under food service processing their LMO

kaligayahan

Full Member
Apr 29, 2014
21
0
beholder69 said:
That's the same in every country, it's not exclusive to Canada, but over here, due to the immigration rates, it's easier for those numbers to go up. They're still very far away from high. And as I said before, varies greatly from province to province.
You seem to keep dodging the question posed about how TFW's are displacing Canadian employee's.

There are numerous reports of business's that have FIRED long term Canadian employees in favour of TFWs.

Do you think those people that served 10 years or more are lazy or don't want the low wage?

And since you brought it up, please do tell us what is the exact unemployment rate in Canada? Please back it up.
 

fkl

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Apr 25, 2013
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As you sow, so shall you reap. When i see uneducated people chanting for jobs requiring higher education and specialized skill, I can't help and respond in the very same manner.

Please note that i am NOT AT ALL trying to deny misuse of TFW program IN SOME CASES. But extending that to many generalizations i see put here is beyond any common sense.

No one supports any one else. No government in the world brings people by taking pity on them. Whether right or wrong, it is decision based upon economic needs of the country. So the notion "we cannot support every worker .." is inherently flawed. Respectfully, it is not yours to give.

Having said that the Royal bank and other issues are very genuine concerns and i fully support canadian rage over those. However, the fact of matter is that government did significantly CHANGED and made the process much more scrutinized to avoid such events. Ask any one who has been through the tfw visa process since that event. The time period from Mar to Late 2013 was a mess for this entire process caused only by the tightening of ropes by government on it. But since it was principally a good decision to fix misuse of program, i understand and accept the delays caused.

The remaining of the argument about lowering wages - definitely makes sense WHERE EVER it actually happens. It is not and cannot be the case in most of the highly skilled jobs which is a large population in the TF workers. Hence i humbly ask NOT TO GENERALIZE again.


kafka khaos said:
It's statements like this that makes Canadians want to scrap the whole program. We are a country of only 35 million people. We can not possibly support every worker from every 3rd world country. If these 3rd world workers are so fantastic, then why don't they fix up their own countries?

The fact of the matter is, the TFW program is displacing Canadian workers, driving down wages of Canadians, and driving up unemployment. It isn't making Canada better, its turning Canada into the 3rd world. Canadians are RIGHT to want to stop that from happening.

Royal Bank fired 45 Canadians and switched to TFW. http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/after-backlash-rbc-pledges-to-not-send-work-offshore-just-to-cut-costs-1.1295268

65 Ironworkers in Fort mac were fired and replaced by TFW. http://www.fortmcmurraytoday.com/2014/02/06/sixty-five-employees-replaced-with-tfws-alberta-federation-of-labour (there were reports they would be rehired but to-date they have not been re-hired)


Hundreds of miners is BC were denied jobs and TFW brought in instead. http://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2012/10/30/BC-Chinese-Miners/


These are not crap jobs. These are solid middle class jobs that Canadians should have a chance at. Canadians are RIGHT to stop the downward pressure on wages and RIGHT to stop the attack on our middle class.


The sad part is, these migrant workers dont even know that we are fighting for their benefit too. What good is leaving the 3rd world for Canadam if Canada has just become the 3rd world? These migrants just want jobs now. Canadians on the otherhand, want jobs now AND in the future AND for their children AND their children's children. Because Canadians care about Canada and want Canada to succeed now AND in the future. These migrants don't. They want to use Canada now, and when Canada becomes a crappy place to work, they will go someplace else.
 

fkl

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kafka khaos said:
not true. the TFW drives up unemployment. http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/temporary-foreign-worker-program-linked-to-joblessness-report-1.2620551

Wrong. In the past Canadian firms spent time and money trianing Canadians to do the work. Or would hired unexperienced Canadians oput of university and give them entry level position where they gain experience.

Now, it is EASIER and CHEAPER to simply hire a foreigner who is already trained and already experienced. This is good for the business's profits, and good for the foreigner, but a disaster for Canada and Canadians.

Company's should only be allowed to hire a TFW if they can tell the government exactly how they are going to train a Canadian and fill that position with a Canadian in short order.
The very same link quoted above says "nudges the unemployment rate higher in some sectors of the economy and parts of the country". Last time i checked this in plain English is singling out some sectors, not an entire program.

The rest of the argument is sooo weird i don't know where to even begin with.

On one side it suggests "in the past companies could hire and train people at entry level jobs" then it goes on to say it is easier and cheaper to hire a trained foreigner.

So if we follow the line, an entry level Canadian in some domain with the amount of time undergoing training is STILL MORE expensive then HIRING A SKILLED and experienced resource internationally who probably is doing the same role before and likely is being paid well too. That is just a false illusion if i humbly say. For skilled jobs people are well paid - often more than Canadian counter parts at similar level of experience, because their skill was rare and they won't find it worthy enough moving to another country unless it is well compensated.

And we haven't thought about adding the cost (time, money and uncertainty) that an employer undergoes in order to get such a resource. Surely from a business point of view, employers must be fools IF WHAT IS SAID ABOVE WOULD BE TRUE.

There are many professions which just cant be learned by on job training. You need to have a credibility in the industry to go for those. A lot of business in Canada comes from US, where they simply ask for prior specialized experience no matter what. I have seen employers losing or gaining such businesses based upon singled out profiles of individuals which they had. Losing one such person means - losing a major customer from US which might result in the employer closing down one full team containing several Canadians who would then go out of job. Fair to say the temp foreign worker here actually helped Canadians retain their jobs. This is not as uncommon as one might think at least in tech industry.

Employers aren't schools, they have financial goals and need people who are productive fast. To some extend they still put efforts to train people. It should be a good mix of both. But trust me, if some day this idea is completely abolished, you would probably lose five "entry level positions" that are given currently to Canadians for may be 1 or 2 international resources who help employers sustain both.
 

fkl

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kaligayahan said:
You seem to keep dodging the question posed about how TFW's are displacing Canadian employee's.

There are numerous reports of business's that have FIRED long term Canadian employees in favour of TFWs.

Do you think those people that served 10 years or more are lazy or don't want the low wage?

And since you brought it up, please do tell us what is the exact unemployment rate in Canada? Please back it up.
You are also assuming that "low wage" stance. As per the law there is no such discretion in tfwp. If some body is not following it, you don't curse the rules. You enforce the law. In all those reports, government has been taking action against these employers too. Or do you want to shut down entire program due to those isolated events?

Imagine for a moment the results of this. Canada won't be able to bring in Post Docs, visiting university professors for research programs nor any high skilled workers. In turn probably other countries would return the favor (it is a two way street) so all Canadians working in US, UK or any where else in the world would face the same situation. I am not sure that is what government is looking for, nor would you be either.

Having said that, yes unemployment in general in Canada is a serious problem. In my limited understanding of that, more business opportunities are being lost and cutting down jobs. For e.g. (no direct offence to language ideology), but Quebec's obsession with language is costing it losses in every industry. Air craft manufacturing to moving of port to Hydro Quebec losing contracts to sell electricity to Newyork, you name it. Every one living there can see and admit it including those who favor the language barriers.

Montreal has only gone towards down sizing in grandeur of its past in the last 30 years. Toronto though grew up from nothing, although unemployment is a major question there as well.

But still most of these issues aren't related to immigration. Example of US has repeatedly been quoted. It still has 65k H1B quota for each year for highly skilled jobs despite being a lot larger by population. That work force does contribute to their economy more rather than less, otherwise it (the program) wouldn't have existed. I am sure viewing the state Canada is in, similar programs (if implemented appropriately i.e. fixing all of the misuses cited) would only boost the economy.
 

kaligayahan

Full Member
Apr 29, 2014
21
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fkl said:
You are also assuming that "low wage" stance. As per the law there is no such discretion in tfwp. If some body is not following it, you don't curse the rules. You enforce the law. In all those reports, government has been taking action against these employers too. Or do you want to shut down entire program due to those isolated events.

Imagine for a moment the results of this. Canada won't be able to bring in Post Docs, visiting university professors for research programs nor any high skilled workers. In turn probably other countries would return the favor (it is a two way street) so all Canadians working in US, UK or any where else in the world would face the same situation. I am not sure that is what government is looking for, nor should you.

Having said that, yes unemployment in general in Canada is a serious problem. In my limited understanding of that, more business opportunities are being lost and cutting down jobs. For e.g. (no direct offence to language ideology), but Quebec's obsession with language is costing it losses in every industry. Air craft manufacturing to moving of port to Hydro Quebec losing contracts to sell electricity to Newyork, you name it. Every one living there can see and admit it including those who favor the language.

Montreal has only gone towards down sizing in grandeur of its past in the last 30 years. Toronto though grew up from nothing, although unemployment is a major question there as well.

But still most of these issues aren't related to immigration. Example of US has repeatedly been quoted. It still has 65k H1B quota for each year for highly skilled jobs despite being a lot larger in population. That work force does contribute to their economy more rather than less, otherwise it would have changed. I am sure viewing the state Canada is in, similar programs (if implemented appropriately i.e. fixing all of the misuses cited) would boost the economy only.
Your entire argument is invalid.

Message Topic: Bad news for TFW under food service processing their LMO

We are not talking "high skilled positions".
LMO = Non Immigrant.

Do you not feel that maybe, just maybe there is too much of an influx of "cheap labour" for the economy to bear? This is the real question.

There is sufficient evidence to indicate that this is so.

Your thoughts.
 

fkl

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Let's stick to opinions. The "your argument is invalid and mine is valid" race won't lead us any where.

I wished if it had stick to the topic as you quoted. But if you read the entire thread - it has been GENERALIZED to the entire TFW program which is the ONLY thing i am trying to defend. Remember i asked a few posts earlier, NOT TO GENERALIZE. That is the only thing i meant. When you say "TFW" (without any thing specific) it covers many other professions too, which i have highlighted above.

Fully support the stance on influx of cheap labor. I would hate it as much as you do. Strictly no tolerance for that.

Update:
I would just add that most of those cases that i see are malpractices of rules. I really often ask others, "how the hell did that position get an LMO and work permit". If i could advise, it would only be about the government to ENFORCE the practical rules they already laid out. Just make sure they are followed and this influx would stabilize.


kaligayahan said:
Your entire argument is invalid.

Message Topic: Bad news for TFW under food service processing their LMO

We are not talking "high skilled positions".
LMO = Non Immigrant.

Do you not feel that maybe, just maybe there is too much of an influx of "cheap labour" for the economy to bear? This is the real question.

There is sufficient evidence to indicate that this is so.

Your thoughts.
 

kaligayahan

Full Member
Apr 29, 2014
21
0
fkl said:
Update:
I would just add that most of those cases that i see are malpractices of rules. I really often ask others, "how the hell did that position get an LMO and work permit". If i could advise, it would only be about the government to ENFORCE the practical rules they already laid out. Just make sure they are followed and this influx would stabilize.
You are right. And it is a bigger problem then most realize. The employer is basically upgrading the LMO to a higher skill level (still in the low skill environment.)

There is no question that I feel sorry for the LMOs who sincerely believed that they were on a good path to maybe make a bight future for themselves and family's etc.

It is the scum bag employers and the corrupt Government that are the REAL problem in this whole fiasco!
 

lagn07

Member
Apr 29, 2014
11
1
Guys, I just want to share my experience. My flight to Canada was last May 05. Kuwait - Heathrow - Calgary - Fort McMurray. Immigration was really doing their job! Piece of advice to those who are travelling soon. Make sure to let your employer be aware of your arrival. In my case, the officer called on my employer and asked few questions such as: Are you expecting an employee to come very soon? What was the employee name? At which restaurant that this employee gonna work? Good thing I was intouched with my employer otherwise I could hardly get permit! Also make sure that you have a copy with you of the following: LMO, Job Offer & Employment Contract. All these where based on my experience! Hope this will help you guys!
 

stopDA

Hero Member
Apr 27, 2013
496
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Well guys, tomorrow night would officially mark two weeks since this moratorium came into effect. How much longer do they plan to keep this moratorium going? I keep seeing news articles indicating that Jason Kenney will announce some changes to the TFWP "soon", but this is too vague of an indicator. I wonder what "soon" means to Jason Kenney and the people writing these news articles (including CBC's). If I'm not mistaken, they're going to lift the moratorium after this review is finished and these changes to the program are announced, right?
 

stopDA

Hero Member
Apr 27, 2013
496
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lagn07 said:
Guys, I just want to share my experience. My flight to Canada was last May 05. Kuwait - Heathrow - Calgary - Fort McMurray. Immigration was really doing their job! Piece of advice to those who are travelling soon. Make sure to let your employer be aware of your arrival. In my case, the officer called on my employer and asked few questions such as: Are you expecting an employee to come very soon? What was the employee name? At which restaurant that this employee gonna work? Good thing I was intouched with my employer otherwise I could hardly get permit! Also make sure that you have a copy with you of the following: LMO, Job Offer & Employment Contract. All these where based on my experience! Hope this will help you guys!
What exactly do you mean that all those were based on your experience?
 

Cuteejhaimee

Full Member
Feb 13, 2014
22
0
stopDA said:
Well guys, tomorrow night would officially mark two weeks since this moratorium came into effect. How much longer do they plan to keep this moratorium going? I keep seeing news articles indicating that Jason Kenney will announce some changes to the TFWP "soon", but this is too vague of an indicator. I wonder what "soon" means to Jason Kenney and the people writing these news articles (including CBC's). If I'm not mistaken, they're going to lift the moratorium after this review is finished and these changes to the program are announced, right?
Guys,

I have emailed Canada embassy attached with the moratorium of Honorable,
specific only is affected, guys don't be panic and too drama on this website. it is more giving tension which is shouldn't be.
 

stopDA

Hero Member
Apr 27, 2013
496
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Cuteejhaimee said:
Guys,

I have emailed Canada embassy attached with the moratorium of Honorable,
specific only is affected, guys don't be panic and too drama on this website. it is more giving tension which is shouldn't be.
What are you trying to say? I don't quite understand you. Also, what was your purpose for emailing the Canadian embassy about this? This is a problem with ESDC (specifically Jason Kenney), not CIC.
 

Cuteejhaimee

Full Member
Feb 13, 2014
22
0
stopDA said:
What are you trying to say? I don't quite understand you. Also, what was your purpose for emailing the Canadian embassy about this? This is a problem with ESDC (specifically Jason Kenney), not CIC.

I read ur replied at the other mail, (stopDa) if you don't believe God is Good, don't accused or questioning then, if you have been patiently in god grace waiting you shouldn't questioning at all, and also, have ever think in urself if this application is for you or it really destine for you?

and one more, getting more information or sources ain't bad at all, emailing honorable person is isn't bad to asked an confirmation who are specifically affected and specifically suspended.
 

mcbuang

Member
May 2, 2014
11
0
@lagn07
Where specific are you in fortmcmurray?
I will be flight soon as may12 and my itinerary will be
Hk-vancouver-calgary-fortmc
If you dont mind may i know the name of your employer?
Hopefully everything will be fine.
 

zardoz

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They really should make IELTS mandatory for TFWs :D :D :D