ATIP Short by 5days on residency

[YNSAFDARI]

Just received my ATIP, the officers comment says " Applicant has fallen below 1095 days ". Physical presence = 1091 mentioned on ATIP, Basic residence = 1402.
And this notes are of 3rd Dec 2015, but so far neither I have got refusal letter nor Oath. I had filled up the form as per the best of my knowledge without hiding anything.
Can anyone shed any light on this status? What are my chances of making it as it wasn't done intentionally just missed few days.

 

[links18]

Old law or current law? What information is IRCC/CIC using to establish you were short by that many days? Do you agree you were short or do you disagree? Do you even really know for sure?

 

[Canadiandesi2006]

Just received my ATIP, the officers comment says " Applicant has fallen below 1095 days ". Physical presence = 1091 mentioned on ATIP, Basic residence = 1402.
And this notes are of 3rd Dec 2015, but so far neither I have got refusal letter nor Oath. I had filled up the form as per the best of my knowledge without hiding anything.
Can anyone shed any light on this status? What are my chances of making it as it wasn't done intentionally just missed few days.

Yes, I have same question as other reader. Did you apply under the old rule (Minimum days 1095) or under new rules (Minimum days 1460) ? How much fee you paid for application and when did you application reach the CIC.

Even though per old rule you are just 4 days short but seems the officer has mistaken and your eligibility is evaluated under new rules.

 

[YNSAFDARI]

Old law of 1095 days 3 out of 5 yrs. I paid $630, applied in 16th Feb 2015.

Links, as per my calculation I had completed my days on 2nd of Feb.
I don't know what information CIC is using to establish that I am short, they had asked me for my I94 print outs and I think that maybe their source. I accept that I may have made a mistake on one of the entry exits but still I don't think am short of residency requirement.
Probably they may be taking the times when I crossed border to fill up the gas (on few occasions at around midnight) but have not stayed back, which not mentioned.

 

[Canadiandesi2006]

Old law of 1095 days 3 out of 5 yrs. I paid $630, applied in 16th Feb 2015.

Links, as per my calculation I had completed my days on 2nd of Feb.
I don't know what information CIC is using to establish that I am short, they had asked me for my I94 print outs and I think that maybe their source. I accept that I may have made a mistake on one of the entry exits but still I don't think am short of residency requirement.
Probably they may be taking the times when I crossed border to fill up the gas (on few occasions at around midnight) but have not stayed back, which not mentioned.

You might consider getting the cross-border travel report from FOIA (US Homeland Security) and CBSA to re-calculate and verify. Its possible that when you crossed into USA it was recorded but not your return into Canada.

As a result, CBSA record with IRCC showing that you were out of Canada for longer period.

Hopefully, once you obtain the cross border travel records from both these agencies, you can verify and figure out the error.

 

[robw]

Can anyone shed any light on this status? What are my chances of making it as it wasn't done intentionally just missed few days.

I hate to say it, but your chances are practically zero. It has to be 1,095 by their calculation. I can't imagine this ending up in no other way than a rejection. Perhaps, maybe, you get an RQ, but likely this will end in rejection.

Sorry...

 

[YNSAFDARI]

You might consider getting the cross-border travel report from FOIA (US Homeland Security) and CBSA to re-calculate and verify. Its possible that when you crossed into USA it was recorded but not your return into Canada.

As a result, CBSA record with IRCC showing that you were out of Canada for longer period.

Hopefully, once you obtain the cross border travel records from both these agencies, you can verify and figure out the error.

How do you get report from FOIA & CBSA ? any links ?... and does CIC not take that to do their calculations ?

 

[hvakili]

It does not mean that you will get rejected! Folks, do not share wrong info with that amount of confidence!!!

I applied being about 20 days short in physicsl presence ( applied last june) and I'm having my oath next month. I self declared my situation though. Be positive!

 

[links18]

Here might be an example of IRCC/CIC taking border records as definitive when they shouldn't. If you applied under old law, you can still qualify even if you really were short. However, if you are confident you had enough physical presence days, you could try to get your border records from CBSA and US CBP to see if you can identify where the problem is. If you aren't really sure, you can take your chances and get the records, but if they show you were short, it puts you in a tough pickle of having to argue they are wrong, which they might be, but how do you prove it? BTW, old law was 3 out of 4 years, not 3 out of 5. You didn't make a mistake did you?

You might consider sending in your CBSA records identifying which entries correspond to day trips, which you probably didn't need to report.....

 

[robw]

It does not mean that you will get rejected! Folks, do not share wrong info with that amount of confidence!!!

I applied being about 20 days short in physicsl presence ( applied last june) and I'm having my oath next month. I self declared my situation though. Be positive!

How is that even possible? You knowingly applied for citizenship with less days? So your online calculator printout clearly showed you short of 1095, and you still got accepted? If so, I probably wouldn't brag about that online because it's likely a fluke, especially when in OP's case, the officer remarked that he is indeed short (which is a major cause for concern. The law is very clear on the residency obligation. Plus, for a counter-point, consider this guy who was rejected for falling short just 2 days of the 1,460 days RO:

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/my-citizenship-application-is-rejected-please-dont-repeat-my-mistake-t402176.0.html


I'm not saying all is lost, but I don't understand what people expect OP to do. Should he apply for his CBSA record from ATIP and preemptively send it to CIC? That will likely create confusion...they're probably still figuring out the next steps and if they think he can clarify something, they'll CIT/RQ him. And anyway, they have access to the exact same CBSA info, if not an even deeper insight on his movements from CBSA (which many here have said is not 100% accurate or complete anyway). I don't know...I just don't see cause for optimism here so I don't want to raise OP's hopes for no reason.

 

[robw]

How do you get report from FOIA & CBSA ? any links ?... and does CIC not take that to do their calculations ?

For the US report, just use this:

https://i94.cbp.dhs.gov/I94/request.html

FOIA might take long (I read people getting it in a week though): https://foiaonline.regulations.gov/foia/action/public/home

And for CBSA, use this:

https://atip-aiprp.apps.gc.ca/atip/welcome.do?lang=en

I hope it helps...maybe I'm wrong and somehow you can get accepted anyway. I've read about people being accepted before (as above), but you can't really verify anything on the internet. If someone can perhaps reference any paragraphs in the citizenship law that can somehow permit someone to become a citizen despite falling short, I would greatly appreciate it!

 

[Politren]

How is that even possible? You knowingly applied for citizenship with less days? So your online calculator printout clearly showed you short of 1095, and you still got accepted? If so, I probably wouldn't brag about that online because it's likely a fluke, especially when in OP's case, the officer remarked that he is indeed short (which is a major cause for concern. The law is very clear on the residency obligation. Plus, for a counter-point, consider this guy who was rejected for falling short just 2 days of the 1,460 days RO:

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/my-citizenship-application-is-rejected-please-dont-repeat-my-mistake-t402176.0.html


I'm not saying all is lost, but I don't understand what people expect OP to do. Should he apply for his CBSA record from ATIP and preemptively send it to CIC? That will likely create confusion...they're probably still figuring out the next steps and if they think he can clarify something, they'll CIT/RQ him. And anyway, they have access to the exact same CBSA info, if not an even deeper insight on his movements from CBSA (which many here have said is not 100% accurate or complete anyway). I don't know...I just don't see cause for optimism here so I don't want to raise OP's hopes for no reason.

Under the old rules the people still could be approved with a shortfall of actual physical presence. This is the situation with hvakili and YNSAFDARI both of them are under the old rules.

Under the new rules we have absolute strict physical presence requirement and it's totally different ball game now.
This is why the guy from this topic is not approved for just 2 days short http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/my-citizenship-application-is-rejected-please-dont-repeat-my-mistake-t402176.0.html because he applied under the new rules.
Under the new rules even 1 day short will make an applicant NOT eligible.

 

[robw]

Under the old rules the people still could be approved with a shortfall of actual physical presence. This is the situation with hvakili and YNSAFDARI both of them are under the old rules.

Under the new rules we have absolute strict physical presence requirement and it's totally different ball game now.
This is why the guy from this topic is not approved for just 2 days short http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/my-citizenship-application-is-rejected-please-dont-repeat-my-mistake-t402176.0.html because he applied under the new rules.
Under the new rules even 1 day short will make an applicant NOT eligible.

I see...but what are the conditions under which it's okay to be short of 1095 under the old rules? Is it subjective? Do you have to give proof of extenuating circumstances?

 

[Politren]

I see...but what are the conditions under which it's okay to be short of 1095 under the old rules? Is it subjective? Do you have to give proof of extenuating circumstances?

Under the old rules there is still chance to be approved based only on residence (hence basic residency) the system is full with such shortfall applications submitted before the changes last year just hoping that one day they might also be approved even with short physical presence in Canada .

The end decisions from the cases with shortfalls under the old rules are not consistent , hence indeed some subjective factor is involved.

Now under the new rules only the physical presence is counted (the basic residence is ditched post June 10 last year)

 

[YNSAFDARI]

It does not mean that you will get rejected! Folks, do not share wrong info with that amount of confidence!!!

I applied being about 20 days short in physicsl presence ( applied last june) and I'm having my oath next month. I self declared my situation though. Be positive!

How did you self declare and did you apply for ATIP ?