+1(514) 937-9445 or Toll-free (Canada & US) +1 (888) 947-9445

Asking for Police Certificate... twice

Celcius

Full Member
Jun 16, 2014
31
2
Category........
Visa Office......
Manila
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
20-06-2015
AOR Received.
23-07-2015
Rewind back to June 2015, after many longs months of gathering all the required documents and filling out forms, we finally sent off our application. Everything went well, sponsorship approved and the application had been forwarded to the Manilla office to processing. Everything has been good and we have been waiting.

Two months ago we get an email saying that we need to submit her medical examination, which was strange because we did it up front and the online status records confirm that. Whatever, we do the whole thing again and the doctor informs us that the medical exam is only valid for a year. Strange that CIC recommends we submit this upfront, and confirmed they received it. Anyways, not the end of the world.

However, two days ago. We get an email from Manilla saying that we need to submit her police certificates from Thailand and Japan (we lived there for a period of time.) We knew about this, and because of this we submitted this records with our original application. Why are they asking for them, if they already have them?

The worst part about this is the time and money that went into getting these records the first time. The Japanese one, wasn't too bad and I don't want to go into detail but it cost us about $350 to complete this.

The Thai one however, was unbelievable. We got her fingerprints done at the local station, sent them to the Royal Thai Police in Bangkok, and called them a month later. The denied receiving the request, even though we put tracking on it, and it was accepted. So we do it again. Another month later, and still the deny again. That's it, we can't deal with this anymore, so we fly to Bangkok to get it done in person. After five days in Bangkok it's complete and we can go home. This whole process took us four months (which we delayed in submitting her application) and cost us over $3000. Whatever, it's not the CICs fault.

However, now they send us an email again and tell us that we need to submit these documents? We already did it, and we don't want to have to do this again. We don't have the time or money to fly to Bangkok again to go through this whole thing all over again.

Is there anything I can do?
 

jes_ON

VIP Member
Jun 22, 2009
12,092
1,421
Category........
Visa Office......
New York
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
06-May-2010
AOR Received.
13-Aug-2010
File Transfer...
01-Mar-2011
Passport Req..
30-Jun-2011
VISA ISSUED...
12-Jul-2011 (received 25-Jul-2011)
LANDED..........
03-Sep-2011
I feel for you. I agonized for nearly 3 years about being unable to get PCCs from two countries.

There are a few possible reasons why IRCC is requesting new PCCs.

a) They didn't receive/record the first set, or misplaced/lost them.

b) Like medical exams, PCCs are generally considered valid for one year. Given the length of time it has taken to process your application, it is not unusual that IRCC requests new PCCs.

c) Instructions for the Thai PCC: "Do I need to provide a Police Certificate with my Application for Permanent Residence? No. Citizenship and Immigration Canada will send you a letter requesting a police certificate after you send your Application for Permanent Residence. You must bring that letter when you apply for a Police Certificate."

The page indicates that the "Date Modified: 2015-04-27" was before you applied, so these instructions were in effect at the time you applied. You were supposed to wait until the PCC was requested before getting it. It is also possible you got the runaround in Thailand because you didn't include that (I know, that likely would have happened anyway).

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/security/police-cert/asia-pacific/thailand.asp

Information is similar for the Japanese PCC (although contradictory).

SO, now what?

1) Request your GCMS notes - this way you can see if IRCC received your previous PCCs.

Do you have anyone residing in Canada who can request your GCMS notes for you? (If not, there are paid services that will do this for you).
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/atip/requests-atip.asp

2) Did you keep scans/copies of the PCCs? It is possible they are sending the request (automated) because in their system, they have to send you request before you can apply for the PCC.

3) If the Japan PCC is "easy to get," then just do it.

SO _ My suggestion is to write a letter to IRCC, stating that

(a) you have already submitted these PCCs (copies attached). Are new PCCs required?
(b) Your wife has applied for the new Japan PCC (or you could wait until you get it and send that too).
(c) Describe the difficulty in obtaining the first PCC from Thailand, as a non-citizen, non-resident (keep emphasizing that part) - the cost, etc. everything (like you did above); Provide proof that your wife has not traveled to Thailand in the interim (not sure exactly how to do that, other than copy every page in her passport). Assert that the cost of obtaining a new PCC in the required time frame (meaning, she would have to travel in person to Thailand) is prohibitive, and request a waiver for obtaining the 2nd PCC from Thailand.

The only other option is to try to get the new Thai PCC, following IRCC's instructions EXACTLY, and documenting each and every step you have taken to get the PCC (scan everything! Application forms, courier receipts, logs of calls made, EVERYTHING). Send IRCC a monthly update on your progress.

You could also pay a lawyer/legal service in Bangkok to get it for you. It won't be cheap (400-500 USD) but significantly less than going in person. For example (I am not recommending them, just saying you can google and find such services):
http://www.siam-legal.com/other-services/securing-thai-police-clearance-for-foreigners.php

I don't know what else to tell you. In the past, if people exhausted reasonable efforts to get the PCC, IRCC would accommodate well-documented requests for waivers (esp. from countries where you are a non-citizen, non-resident). They really do not expect you to spend thousands of dollars to get the PCC. But the process is more bureaucratized now.

What ever you do, do not fail to communicate with IRCC before the deadline.
 

Celcius

Full Member
Jun 16, 2014
31
2
Category........
Visa Office......
Manila
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
20-06-2015
AOR Received.
23-07-2015
Thank you so much for the reply and information Jes. It means a lot, we will continue with the process of course. It is frustrating but you explanations make it a little more palatable.

One more question I had was that they require these documents to be supplied withing 30 days or "our application may be refused (denied)" I don't think we can get all these documents in within 30 days. How do I go about getting an extension on that? Acquiring the PCC's again our out of my control and we have dealt with delays in these before.
 

jes_ON

VIP Member
Jun 22, 2009
12,092
1,421
Category........
Visa Office......
New York
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
06-May-2010
AOR Received.
13-Aug-2010
File Transfer...
01-Mar-2011
Passport Req..
30-Jun-2011
VISA ISSUED...
12-Jul-2011 (received 25-Jul-2011)
LANDED..........
03-Sep-2011
Celcius said:
Thank you so much for the reply and information Jes. It means a lot, we will continue with the process of course. It is frustrating but you explanations make it a little more palatable.

One more question I had was that they require these documents to be supplied withing 30 days or "our application may be refused (denied)" I don't think we can get all these documents in within 30 days. How do I go about getting an extension on that? Acquiring the PCC's again our out of my control and we have dealt with delays in these before.
Again, FIRST verify with IRCC that you really need to provide them again, given that you have already supplied them.

Then, apply for the new PCCs and DOCUMENT everything. As you get near the deadline, if you don't have the PCCs yet, send IRCC an update (with evidence) about your progress, and request more time. Whatever you do, do not let the deadline go by without communicating with IRCC.
 

Celcius

Full Member
Jun 16, 2014
31
2
Category........
Visa Office......
Manila
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
20-06-2015
AOR Received.
23-07-2015
One thing I am curious about is that the PCCs come in a sealed envelope, you mention documenting everything. Should I be opening these to make copies or leave them sealed?
 

jes_ON

VIP Member
Jun 22, 2009
12,092
1,421
Category........
Visa Office......
New York
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
06-May-2010
AOR Received.
13-Aug-2010
File Transfer...
01-Mar-2011
Passport Req..
30-Jun-2011
VISA ISSUED...
12-Jul-2011 (received 25-Jul-2011)
LANDED..........
03-Sep-2011
Celcius said:
One thing I am curious about is that the PCCs come in a sealed envelope, you mention documenting everything. Should I be opening these to make copies or leave them sealed?
There is no requirement that they be sealed.
 

Meng Siah

Member
Sep 13, 2017
12
3
Hi. Submitted my Application to CIO a month ago with my Police Clearances from XX & YY countries as my Police Clearance from ZZ country was still pending. Have not received my AOR from CIO yet but just received my Police Clearance from ZZ country yesterday. What should I do? Any possibility that I could send my latest police clearance to CIO ? Appreciate if someone could enlighten me. Thank you.