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Apply for PR card renewal

CNtower92

Member
Oct 24, 2020
13
0
Dear all,
Do I have to apply for the PR card renewal 3 or 6 months before it expires? Can't someone wait until it actually expires and then renew it?? Or even a little past its expiration date?
The reason I am asking is that some people do like removing the effect of some absences by doing so isnt that allowed??

Thank you
 

IndianBos

Hero Member
Oct 8, 2014
306
137
Toronto, Canada
Category........
FSW
Visa Office......
CPC-O
NOC Code......
2174
App. Filed.......
19-Jun-2014
Nomination.....
16-Oct-2014
File Transfer...
11-Dec-2014
Med's Request
24-Apr-2015 (Delayed for adding a child)
Med's Done....
9-May-2015 (Updated 29-May-2015)
Interview........
N/A
Passport Req..
17-Jun-2015 (mailed 29-June-2015)
VISA ISSUED...
11-Jul-2015
LANDED..........
7-Sep-2015
You can apply for PR card renewal after it expires, there is nothing that states you must apply before expiring. Just ensure you meet the Residency Obligation whenever you apply.
If you apply after the card expires, it creates restrictions in travel since you need one to board a flight coming back. Otherwise, there is no impact if you stay in Canada during that time.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,267
3,028
Dear all,
I am new to this forum and I hope I could get some assistance.
I have been a PR for a year now and most of this year I have been outside Canada. I will be returning soon and when I do so and by the time my PR card expires I will have about 3 years and 6 months of physical presence.
I know that I am well above the minimum which is 2 years, however, I have seen cases of people falling in secondary reviews with 3 years and more of presence which is weird to me.
Also given that when I land I will still be looking for a job and taking sometime to find one so settlement won't be instant.
Could you please help informing me to why those applications get scrutinized with almost double the minimum required physical presence??
Do I have to apply for the PR card renewal 3 or 6 months before it expires? Can't someone wait until it actually expires and then renew it?? Or even a little past its expiration date?
The reason I am asking is that some people do like removing the effect of some absences by doing so isnt that allowed??
A PR can wait three to six YEARS to apply for a new PR card.

Or never apply for a new PR card. Whether or not a PR has a valid PR card has ZERO relationship to the validity of the PR's status (other than a PR outside Canada who is not in possession of a valid PR card is presumed to not have valid PR status, which nonetheless is a presumption fairly easily rebutted).

As @IndianBos commented, the main impact of not having a valid PR card is limitations in international travel, which comes from the requirement to present a valid PR card to obtain permission to board an airline flight coming to Canada from abroad. (And even for that there are alternatives, such as obtaining a PR Travel Document or traveling via the U.S.)

Generally, however, unless the PR is cutting-it-close, real close, waiting longer to apply for a new PR card does not, not usually, make much difference. The reason why a PR card application might be diverted into Secondary Review generally involves some other factor, other than absences, inviting concerns or suspicions.



"removing the effect of some absences"

I also quoted your query from the other topic you started. It appears the main concern underlying both topics has to do with the risk the PR card application is referred to Secondary Review. And an apprehension that "absences" from Canada will trigger such increased scrutiny and non-routine processing.

As I noted above, the reason why a PR card application might be diverted into Secondary Review generally involves some other factor, other than absences, inviting concerns or suspicions.

Who and why some PRs are subject to SR, or when applying for citizenship they are subject to RQ-related non-routine processing, is a BIG subject with lots and lots of complex tangents. Too big, too complex, to attempt even a summary or outline, since the risks are so variable and depend on the particular factors and circumstances in individual cases. (And is further complicated because the actual criteria employed by officials screening PRs for Residency Obligation compliance, citizenship qualification, or other issues relative to potential inadmissibility, is confidential, not disclosed to the public.)

Absences from Canada alone, even frequent absences, even lengthy absences, do not generally trigger non-routine questions, or concerns, or suspicions.

So the underlying premise of the queries, in both topics, is basically unfounded. There is NO negative "effect" of mere absences. Again, even frequent or lengthy absences.

Sure, some travel history patterns, absences in some circumstances, absences in conjunction with other factors, can invite questions, concerns, doubts, or outright suspicions. Again, this is NOT about the absences themselves, but about additional factors or circumstances, and how those in combination with the individual's travel history, might suggest reasons-to-question-residency or reasons to investigate other matters, such as misrepresentation or criminality.


Some Main Factors:

There are of course some main factors which can influence whether a PR is subject to doubts or suspicion when applying for a new PR card, applying for citizenship, or even upon arrival at a PoE when returning to Canada from abroad.

And sure, generally, the more the PR has been IN Canada compared to days absent from Canada, the less likely Canadian officials will have Residency Obligation compliance concerns.

Indications of being well settled and permanently living in Canada tend to be the strongest factor reducing the risk of doubts or suspicion.

In contrast, discrepancies in information provided by the PR tend to significantly increase the risk of elevated scrutiny. Inconsistencies in travel history information, for example, can indeed trigger non-routine processing or an outright investigation.

Employment history can be a big factor, especially if here too there are incongruities let alone inconsistencies. History of steady employment in Canada usually indicates the PR is well settled and permanently living in Canada, reducing the risk of doubts or suspicion. In contrast, the absence of substantial employment in Canada, or the indication the PR is mostly engaged in employment-related activities abroad, can trigger questions, even doubts leading to suspicion.

For example, the absence of a Canadian source of income sufficient to support the PR, is something that appears to trigger concerns.

BUT, BUT, BUT . . . more than a little caution is called for in trying to weigh the influence of even these "main factors," since again so much depends on all the factors and circumstances, again recognizing that the risks are highly variable and the particular factors and circumstances in individual cases are highly variable.

Generally there is little or nothing to be gained by trying to manipulate potential risk factors. Sure, for those cutting-it-close (be that in relation to complying with the RO or in regards to meeting the physical presence requirement for citizenship) waiting longer, building up a bigger margin, can help. Making sure to be well-settled in Canada before applying for a new PR card can help. But otherwise generally an immigrant's decision-making is driven by many other factors, ranging from where to work and live influenced by family and employment opportunities, to travel abroad influenced by continuing ties abroad (with family looming particularly large in decision-making about traveling abroad). We all have real lives to live, real lives tangled in all sorts of practical contingencies. Most of our choices, our decisions, are dictated by needs and preferences apart from how our decisions will effect the processing of a PR card application or grant citizenship application.

For sure, factoring in key qualifying elements, for keeping PR status, for qualifying for citizenship, can and should play a big role in our decision-making along the way . . . the soft-landing PR, for example, would be prudent to carefully plan and prepare to make the move to settle in Canada much sooner than waiting until the third year. But beyond that, the important thing is to keep good records, including absolutely precise records of travel history.
 

CNtower92

Member
Oct 24, 2020
13
0
Thanks a lot dpenabill for your detailed reply
Following up on your points I have a couple of questions
1) you have pointed out that patterns of travel thats inconsistent with the PR individual, like for example someone who frequently travels while not employed yet?

2) Regarding employment, some immigrants if not a lot fall into the issue of not finding a permanent job through out the whole 3 periods, its far fetched but have seen it happen. What would it be in his case, given he has tried everything to look for a proper stable job.

3)Finally, if someone as you mentioned soft landed for a year, then landed took casual jobs and sustained him/her self from the savings given the savings are enough for rent food and drink for a substantial part of the 3 years for citizenship and/or 5 years for the PR renewal

I remember that you have waited a year before applying for the citizenship, so taking your model as something that worked out for the best, and correct me if am wrong. Waiting does almost all the time negate the effect of periods of unemployment, inconsistencies, etc. Given of course that none of those caused a case of misrepresentation
 

CNtower92

Member
Oct 24, 2020
13
0
A PR can wait three to six YEARS to apply for a new PR card.

Or never apply for a new PR card. Whether or not a PR has a valid PR card has ZERO relationship to the validity of the PR's status (other than a PR outside Canada who is not in possession of a valid PR card is presumed to not have valid PR status, which nonetheless is a presumption fairly easily rebutted).

As @IndianBos commented, the main impact of not having a valid PR card is limitations in international travel, which comes from the requirement to present a valid PR card to obtain permission to board an airline flight coming to Canada from abroad. (And even for that there are alternatives, such as obtaining a PR Travel Document or traveling via the U.S.)

Generally, however, unless the PR is cutting-it-close, real close, waiting longer to apply for a new PR card does not, not usually, make much difference. The reason why a PR card application might be diverted into Secondary Review generally involves some other factor, other than absences, inviting concerns or suspicions.



"removing the effect of some absences"

I also quoted your query from the other topic you started. It appears the main concern underlying both topics has to do with the risk the PR card application is referred to Secondary Review. And an apprehension that "absences" from Canada will trigger such increased scrutiny and non-routine processing.

As I noted above, the reason why a PR card application might be diverted into Secondary Review generally involves some other factor, other than absences, inviting concerns or suspicions.

Who and why some PRs are subject to SR, or when applying for citizenship they are subject to RQ-related non-routine processing, is a BIG subject with lots and lots of complex tangents. Too big, too complex, to attempt even a summary or outline, since the risks are so variable and depend on the particular factors and circumstances in individual cases. (And is further complicated because the actual criteria employed by officials screening PRs for Residency Obligation compliance, citizenship qualification, or other issues relative to potential inadmissibility, is confidential, not disclosed to the public.)

Absences from Canada alone, even frequent absences, even lengthy absences, do not generally trigger non-routine questions, or concerns, or suspicions.

So the underlying premise of the queries, in both topics, is basically unfounded. There is NO negative "effect" of mere absences. Again, even frequent or lengthy absences.

Sure, some travel history patterns, absences in some circumstances, absences in conjunction with other factors, can invite questions, concerns, doubts, or outright suspicions. Again, this is NOT about the absences themselves, but about additional factors or circumstances, and how those in combination with the individual's travel history, might suggest reasons-to-question-residency or reasons to investigate other matters, such as misrepresentation or criminality.


Some Main Factors:

There are of course some main factors which can influence whether a PR is subject to doubts or suspicion when applying for a new PR card, applying for citizenship, or even upon arrival at a PoE when returning to Canada from abroad.

And sure, generally, the more the PR has been IN Canada compared to days absent from Canada, the less likely Canadian officials will have Residency Obligation compliance concerns.

Indications of being well settled and permanently living in Canada tend to be the strongest factor reducing the risk of doubts or suspicion.

In contrast, discrepancies in information provided by the PR tend to significantly increase the risk of elevated scrutiny. Inconsistencies in travel history information, for example, can indeed trigger non-routine processing or an outright investigation.

Employment history can be a big factor, especially if here too there are incongruities let alone inconsistencies. History of steady employment in Canada usually indicates the PR is well settled and permanently living in Canada, reducing the risk of doubts or suspicion. In contrast, the absence of substantial employment in Canada, or the indication the PR is mostly engaged in employment-related activities abroad, can trigger questions, even doubts leading to suspicion.

For example, the absence of a Canadian source of income sufficient to support the PR, is something that appears to trigger concerns.

BUT, BUT, BUT . . . more than a little caution is called for in trying to weigh the influence of even these "main factors," since again so much depends on all the factors and circumstances, again recognizing that the risks are highly variable and the particular factors and circumstances in individual cases are highly variable.

Generally there is little or nothing to be gained by trying to manipulate potential risk factors. Sure, for those cutting-it-close (be that in relation to complying with the RO or in regards to meeting the physical presence requirement for citizenship) waiting longer, building up a bigger margin, can help. Making sure to be well-settled in Canada before applying for a new PR card can help. But otherwise generally an immigrant's decision-making is driven by many other factors, ranging from where to work and live influenced by family and employment opportunities, to travel abroad influenced by continuing ties abroad (with family looming particularly large in decision-making about traveling abroad). We all have real lives to live, real lives tangled in all sorts of practical contingencies. Most of our choices, our decisions, are dictated by needs and preferences apart from how our decisions will effect the processing of a PR card application or grant citizenship application.

For sure, factoring in key qualifying elements, for keeping PR status, for qualifying for citizenship, can and should play a big role in our decision-making along the way . . . the soft-landing PR, for example, would be prudent to carefully plan and prepare to make the move to settle in Canada much sooner than waiting until the third year. But beyond that, the important thing is to keep good records, including absolutely precise records of travel history.
Thanks a lot dpenabill for your detailed reply
Following up on your points I have a couple of questions
1) you have pointed out that patterns of travel thats inconsistent with the PR individual, like for example someone who frequently travels while not employed yet?

2) Regarding employment, some immigrants if not a lot fall into the issue of not finding a permanent job through out the whole 3 periods, its far fetched but have seen it happen. What would it be in his case, given he has tried everything to look for a proper stable job.

3)Finally, if someone as you mentioned soft landed for a year, then landed took casual jobs and sustained him/her self from the savings given the savings are enough for rent food and drink for a substantial part of the 3 years for citizenship and/or 5 years for the PR renewal

I remember that you have waited a year before applying for the citizenship, so taking your model as something that worked out for the best, and correct me if am wrong. Waiting does almost all the time negate the effect of periods of unemployment, inconsistencies, etc. Given of course that none of those caused a case of misrepresentation
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,267
3,028
Following up on your points I have a couple of questions
CAVEAT: There is sometimes a tendency to overthink things, to get overly-bogged down in details. Details matter, for sure, but how ALL the details fit into the whole picture, the whole-package so to say, matters more. Focusing on individual factors or circumstances typically over-emphasizes the significance or role of that factor, and in that typically fails to adequately consider the interrelationship between that factor and other circumstances, as well as the influence of other factors generally.

An Important Reminder: I am NOT an expert. I am especially NOT qualified to give personal advice.

Another Important Reminder: It is one thing to identify some facts or circumstances which are likely to have influence, and to generally characterize the nature of such influence (example: inaccurate travel history dates => negative influence), BUT that does NOT offer a definite roadmap showing the specific impact this or that particular fact or circumstance will have. As noted, there is a great deal of variability, more than a little complexity, and additionally, typically, lurking contingencies.

OVERALL: The PR who is well-settled in Canada, who appears to have made Canada his or her permanent home, and who is otherwise in compliance with the Residency Obligation and otherwise not inadmissible (no criminality issues, no misrepresentation issues), will rarely have any reason to worry about a PoE examination when arriving in Canada from abroad, and little or no reason to worry about problems applying for and being issued a new PR card when the time comes.

Efforts to isolate individual factors beyond that, and quantify risks related to them, is largely speculative.


Observations regarding the queries posed:

It can be difficult enough to navigate what-might-happen and how-to-prepare-for-it in specific, concrete situations. Even when most of the key facts are established and known, wrestling with all the possibilities can be overly speculative and less than fruitful.

The speculative and relatively not-useful nature of this tends to be worse the more it is about what will be the case in the future. It is almost certain that any effort to map the influence of this or that factor depending on what will happen over the course of years to come is useless, a waste of time and effort. Especially for a PR who has not yet arrived and settled in Canada. We can outline what the rules are and how they work, and how general factors can influence how things go (the more a PR is cutting-it-close, the greater the risk of problems; failing to comply with the RO risks loss of PR; and so on) but relative to the facts and circumstances there can be all sorts of widely diverse ways things go; way, way, way too many variables to functionally forecast the impact . . . other than, again, the more well-settled the PR is in Canada, generally the less risk there is of encountering issues.

". . . patterns of travel thats inconsistent with the PR individual, like for example someone who frequently travels while not employed yet?"​

This is an aspect which is especially subject to the general caveats above. Context looms large. Whether incongruous patterns in a PR's travel history invite closer examination is one thing, which can loom larger the less the PR has a history of otherwise appearing to be well-settled in Canada, or the more the PR is cutting-it-close relative to RO compliance.

What constitutes an incongruous pattern of travel, a travel history that in itself invites closer examination, cannot be defined more precisely and an attempt to articulate or enumerate examples tends to miss the point. Frequency and length of travel can be a significant factor, but how so depends on many other circumstances. For example, what is inconsistent about traveling frequently during a period the PR is not employed? Frequent travel will APPEAR to be more inconsistent if during that same period the PR reports having a type of job in Canada that generally demands the employee be working at a facility in Canada four or five days a week, week in and week out. A three month trip abroad makes sense for an immigrant teaching university. Not so much for an immigrant employed in manufacturing.


"Regarding employment, some immigrants if not a lot fall into the issue of not finding a permanent job through out the whole 3 periods, its far fetched but have seen it happen. What would it be in his case, given he has tried everything to look for a proper stable job."​

Personnel in IRCC have seen lots of examples showing how it goes for immigrants. By the tens of thousands! They see the full range. They can put all the variable situations into appropriate context far, far better than many in this forum give them credit. They mostly get it. Sure, it is a big bureaucracy, prone to the flaws big bureaucracies tend to have, including some difficulty understanding situations that do not fit the usual patterns. But the vagaries of immigrant employment is something which falls very much inside the usual patterns. Again, they mostly get it.

Which means they can usually see the difference between a PR with a pattern of unstable employment in Canada rooted in the vagaries of the job-market, versus the PR who is concealing continuing employment abroad.

But it also means they do not always recognize who is gaming-the-system. So they have screening criteria and processes designed to help them identify cases deserving suspicion and elevated scrutiny.

I will say this, with emphasis: the PR who has come to Canada to live permanently is NOT likely to have any immigration related problems even if he or she encounters a lot of difficulty getting fully settled into a career here, so long as the PR is indeed here to stay and making a real effort to make that work.


". . . if someone as you mentioned soft landed for a year, then landed took casual jobs and sustained him/her self from the savings given the savings are enough for rent food and drink for a substantial part of the 3 years for citizenship and/or 5 years for the PR renewal"​

Sure. Within the range of what actually makes sense. Up to a limit. Lots and lots of individual factors can influence how things APPEAR. Depends on things like the PR's work-related skills and credentials, the relative job-market, the PR's age and family relationships, including where family is located. Depends on other ties, here, other ties abroad. Again, again, again: the influence of individual factors can very much depend on other factors. Context looms large.


"I remember that you have waited a year before applying for the citizenship, so taking your model as something that worked out for the best, and correct me if am wrong. Waiting does almost all the time negate the effect of periods of unemployment, inconsistencies, etc. Given of course that none of those caused a case of misrepresentation"​

I actually waited quite lot longer than a year beyond when I met the requirements for citizenship to make the application. LOTS of particular circumstances influenced that. I reference that not to suggest others should wait so long, but to emphasize that the particular facts and circumstances in the individual case can vary so widely that for one it would be better to wait much longer to apply for citizenship while for another applying with just a month margin is not at all risky.

Nonetheless, waiting longer . . . be that to apply for a new PR card or for citizenship . . . is not a magic pill. It will not entirely negate or offset reasons which might otherwise trigger RQ-related non-routine processing.

Note that in my case, despite waiting so long there were circumstances which meant I had a higher risk of RQ than most applying with a margin just 20 or so days above the minimum.

It warrants one more reminder: the vast, vast majority of PRs are NEVER questioned much about their compliance with the PR Residency Obligation, let alone overtly challenged. There is almost always some fairly obvious reason why a PR is questioned or challenged, either in a PoE examination or in response to an application for a new PR card. Cutting-it-close or simply falling short tends to be the most common, most obvious reason, and this is rarely a surprise to the PR. And this is true for most other reasons as well, the reason is something the PR knows about.