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Another question about stat dec of common law union

lfindlay

Star Member
Jul 28, 2017
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Applying for my partner's PR card renewal. We had a stat dec of common-law union signed back in 2017 when we first applied for his PR. Can I just use that same declaration as part of our 'proof of relationship' supporting docs for his PR renewal application? We are still common-law (I'm also attaching mail to the same address from the last few years as part of supporting docs).

Or do we need to get a new Statutory Declaration of Common-Law Union signed and notarized for 2023?

Thanks for any help.
 

armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
15,625
7,952
Applying for my partner's PR card renewal. We had a stat dec of common-law union signed back in 2017 when we first applied for his PR. Can I just use that same declaration as part of our 'proof of relationship' supporting docs for his PR renewal application? We are still common-law (I'm also attaching mail to the same address from the last few years as part of supporting docs).

Or do we need to get a new Statutory Declaration of Common-Law Union signed and notarized for 2023?

Thanks for any help.
Clarifying question: why do you think you need this? Have you looked at the application for renewal?

For the most part, once you're a PR, your status no longer depends on your partner.
 
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lfindlay

Star Member
Jul 28, 2017
74
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Clarifying question: why do you think you need this? Have you looked at the application for renewal?

For the most part, once you're a PR, your status no longer depends on your partner.
Oh, very interesting. When filling out form IMM 5444, question asks: "5.3 Have you been accompanying a Canadian citizen who is your spouse or common-law partner or, in the case of a child, your parent, while you were absent from Canada?"

I answered 'yes' to this question as my partner (who is applying for PR renewal) has travelled with me (Canadian citizen) when travelling outside of Canada in the last 5 years. I then get a notification saying "Please upload proof of this person’s Canadian citizenship and relationship to you as supporting documents."

That's why I thought it was required to show proof of our relationship over the last 5 years(since we previously applied).
 

armoured

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Feb 1, 2015
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Oh, very interesting. When filling out form IMM 5444, question asks: "5.3 Have you been accompanying a Canadian citizen who is your spouse or common-law partner or, in the case of a child, your parent, while you were absent from Canada?"

I answered 'yes' to this question as my partner (who is applying for PR renewal) has travelled with me (Canadian citizen) when travelling outside of Canada in the last 5 years. I then get a notification saying "Please upload proof of this person’s Canadian citizenship and relationship to you as supporting documents."

That's why I thought it was required to show proof of our relationship over the last 5 years(since we previously applied).
Okay, this helps clarify things.

On a somewhat simple basis: if the applicant (the PR) has been physically in Canada for more than 730 days in the last five years (looking back from date of application), I'd recommend* applying WITHOUT claiming for these times abroad together. Why? Because better chances it will get approved and finalized more quickly, because they won't need to check that other stuff. (Note ideally eg > 760 days or so just to have a buffer and reduce chances of more detailed checks).

*It is of course up to you, you can do all that extra paperwork if you like.

If you absolutely must claim those days together, then sure - claim it. Since it sounds like it's the same relationship / common law partner, I'd just include the same statutory declaration, some evidence you still reside together (eg bills), and a short explanation that you were sponsored by the common law partner and no changes in that respect.
 

lfindlay

Star Member
Jul 28, 2017
74
19
Okay, this helps clarify things.

On a somewhat simple basis: if the applicant (the PR) has been physically in Canada for more than 730 days in the last five years (looking back from date of application), I'd recommend* applying WITHOUT claiming for these times abroad together. Why? Because better chances it will get approved and finalized more quickly, because they won't need to check that other stuff. (Note ideally eg > 760 days or so just to have a buffer and reduce chances of more detailed checks).

*It is of course up to you, you can do all that extra paperwork if you like.

If you absolutely must claim those days together, then sure - claim it. Since it sounds like it's the same relationship / common law partner, I'd just include the same statutory declaration, some evidence you still reside together (eg bills), and a short explanation that you were sponsored by the common law partner and no changes in that respect.
Oh that's such great insight!

So, to confirm and ensure I'm clear on this, he would answer:
Have you travelled or lived outside Canada in the past five (5) years? - YES
5.3 Have you been accompanying a Canadian citizen who is your spouse or common-law partner or, in the case of a child, your parent, while you were absent from Canada? - NO

And then on the "time spent outside Canada" table where he documents his travel history outside of Canada for the last 5 years (it's not much travel and he definitely meets the ~730 day requirement.. he has only been out of the country 3-4 weeks/year for vacations with me over the last 5 years), rather than selecting B: You have been accompanying a Canadian citizen who is your spouse or common-law partner or, in the case of a child, your parent as "reason for absence", he would select "other" and just write vacation?

And that wouldn't be considered 'lying' (even though he was accompanying me)?

Just want to make sure I'm clear - this will save soooo much work if that's the case. Thank you!
 

scylla

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Oh that's such great insight!

So, to confirm and ensure I'm clear on this, he would answer:
Have you travelled or lived outside Canada in the past five (5) years? - YES
5.3 Have you been accompanying a Canadian citizen who is your spouse or common-law partner or, in the case of a child, your parent, while you were absent from Canada? - NO

And then on the "time spent outside Canada" table where he documents his travel history outside of Canada for the last 5 years (it's not much travel and he definitely meets the ~730 day requirement.. he has only been out of the country 3-4 weeks/year for vacations with me over the last 5 years), rather than selecting B: You have been accompanying a Canadian citizen who is your spouse or common-law partner or, in the case of a child, your parent as "reason for absence", he would select "other" and just write vacation?

And that wouldn't be considered 'lying' (even though he was accompanying me)?

Just want to make sure I'm clear - this will save soooo much work if that's the case. Thank you!
It's not lying. The vast majority of people simply list this as time outside of Canada as a vacation. You're creating a lot more work for yourself if you try to claim this time towards PR. Just count it as time outside of Canada.
 

lfindlay

Star Member
Jul 28, 2017
74
19
Amazing. Thank you so much. I wish I asked sooner as I already started gathering a bunch of supporting docs this morning but I’m going to stop right there and just claim as time outside.
It's not lying. The vast majority of people simply list this as time outside of Canada as a vacation. You're creating a lot more work for yourself if you try to claim this time towards PR. Just count it as time outside of Canada.
Amazing, thank you so much. I wish I asked sooner as I already started gathering supporting docs this morning. But I’m going to stop right there and claim as time spent outside. At least I asked before I went back to the notary.. thanks again for confirming
 
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armoured

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Feb 1, 2015
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And that wouldn't be considered 'lying' (even though he was accompanying me)?

Just want to make sure I'm clear - this will save soooo much work if that's the case. Thank you!
As noted, yes, it's not lying. (Apart from any other interpretation, it's not material - wouldn't affect decision)

You're far better off spending time getting the other stuff right, particularly the day count in/outside Canada including all exits and entries. Get that right, unlikely to have issues.

Note, if over 1095 days in last five years, spouse can apply for citizenship and avoid this in future (obviously with caveat about those nationalities that don't allow dual).
 

dpenabill

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Apr 2, 2010
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For Clarification:

At the risk of saying more than what needs to be said . . .

. . . first a note for emphasis: as referenced by @armoured, days outside Canada credited toward RO compliance based on accompanying a citizen-partner do NOT get credit toward meeting citizenship presence.

When filling out form IMM 5444, question asks: "5.3 Have you been accompanying a Canadian citizen who is your spouse or common-law partner or, in the case of a child, your parent, while you were absent from Canada?"

I answered 'yes' to this question as my partner (who is applying for PR renewal) has travelled with me (Canadian citizen) when travelling outside of Canada in the last 5 years. I then get a notification saying "Please upload proof of this person’s Canadian citizenship and relationship to you as supporting documents."
Again, for Clarification . . .

I agree with @scylla but I also recognize why you ask. Should be fine proceeding based on the responses by @scylla and @armoured.

In particular, NO NEED to read my comments. Unless you are interested. BUT I see what you mean about Question 5.3 and I will drill down into this some, hopefully more clarifying explanation than noisy verbiage.

Foremost, a REMINDER: Follow the instructions. Instructions for PR card application (IMM 5444) are contained in the Guide, IMM 5445, which is here: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/application-forms-guides/guide-5445-applying-permanent-resident-card-card-first-application-replacement-renewal-change-gender-identifier.html

Again, I fully agree with @scylla in regards to the REASON for absence.

That is, it is OK state whatever the reason for the trip was, generally, briefly. No need to precisely describe particular reasons in detail. No need, for example, to elaborate that the reason for taking a holiday in Spain was to visit the Cathedral of Saint Mary of the See in Seville; "holiday" or "vacation" says enough.

In particular, unless the PR is claiming credit toward meeting the PR Residency Obligation based on one of the situations referenced as A, B, or C, it is OK to check "Other" in the "Reason for absence" column and then briefly state a general reason.

Thus, if total number of days spent outside Canada is less than 1095 days, as calculated in application form, OK to check "Other" in the "Reason for absence" column and then briefly state general reason even if time outside Canada might qualify for credit under A, B, or C. Nothing wrong, nothing misleading or deceptive, if PR in the employ of Canadian business travels for work abroad but still checks "Other" in the "Reason for absence" column and briefly states "for work;" or similarly, if PR married to citizen goes abroad for a year while spouse attends classes, checks "Other" and briefly states "living in XYZ while spouse attends school."

And that will, as @scylla notes, avoid "creating a lot more work" than necessary.

And it is not "lying." . . . or deceptive, misleading or even evasive . . . it is an honest statement of the reason.

Which leads back to question 5.3 and your concern:
5.3 Have you been accompanying a Canadian citizen who is your spouse or common-law partner or, in the case of a child, your parent, while you were absent from Canada?

Most people (or at least a lot of people) likely interpret a couple traveling together to mean each was accompanying the other, indicating the honest answer would be "yes" . . . BUT if you truthfully answer "yes" the form specifically references "supporting documents" that need to be included with the application . . . apparently whether or not the PR is claiming a credit for days abroad accompanying their citizen-partner.

NOT to WORRY. For a PR who was not outside Canada more than 1095 days, as calculated in the application form, and does not need credit for days outside Canada, "No" is OK here as well. The language IRCC employs in its instructions, forms, and notices quite often does not precisely fit all the many varied circumstances and situations covered. It is OK to use common sense and personal judgment (within objective reason of course) to best understand what is instructed, what is requested, and respond accordingly. Many here will justifiably caution against overthinking these things. And this is just one among many examples. 5.3 and related questions and instructions are easily, and safely understood to be about claiming the accompanying-citizen-partner credit.

I could drill even deeper into this, and elaborate more fully, because the term "accompanying" in this context is what jurists would call "a term of art," which is to say it has a special meaning that does not fully comport with its meaning in general usage. Which, in this specific context, would be digging into a real can of worms, because there are actually multiple, conflicting meanings for "accompanying" in this context. Not even the Federal Courts, let alone various IAD panels, agree which governs. (Warrants noting, however, the variations in meaning should only affect a very small number of PRs in very particular circumstances, of no import even to the vast majority of those PRs relying on this credit, and zero import for any PR not relying on this credit.)

Which means even if the PR was accompanying their citizen-partner, as most understand what that means, unless the PR is overtly claiming they were accompanying their citizen-spouse according to what that technically means, for purposes of qualifying for the credit, it is more than OK, actually honest to answer "no" to Question 5.3.

Thus, no need, none at all, to wander into that morass here.

All a PR needs to know is that if the PR is not claiming the accompanying-citizen-partner credit, there is no need to answer "yes" in response to question 5.3.


That said, quite a few PRs live abroad accompanying their Canadian citizen spouse/partner and rely on this credit to comply with the PR RO. If they apply for a PR Travel Document, or after returning to Canada they apply for a new PR card, then your initial query would be relevant.

I will respond to that for reference.

Applying for my partner's PR card renewal. We had a stat dec of common-law union signed back in 2017 when we first applied for his PR. Can I just use that same declaration as part of our 'proof of relationship' supporting docs for his PR renewal application? We are still common-law (I'm also attaching mail to the same address from the last few years as part of supporting docs).

Or do we need to get a new Statutory Declaration of Common-Law Union signed and notarized for 2023?
If not claiming any accompanying-citizen-partner credit, this does not apply. Read what follows if interested; otherwise, ignore.

For a PR outside Canada more than 1095 days and claiming accompanying-citizen-partner credit . . .

There are specific instructions for what to include with the application as proof when relying on credit for time abroad accompanying a Canadian citizen, describing what must be included and what may also be included. This is in Appendix A: Residency Obligation and in the section covering "Time spent outside Canada" for "Situation B. Accompanying a Canadian citizen outside Canada."

Clue: there is no mention of a statutory declaration of common-law union in the Appendix. So, clearly, the stat-dec is not a required document. But, if it is "proof of common-law partnership" then the PR may include it as a supporting document.

Without getting tangled in the details involved in what might be required "to prove" a common-law relationship (let alone distinguish what this might mean in contrast to where the instructions reference documents that will "show" something), perhaps the most salient aspect of establishing a common-law relationship is showing that it is an on-going relationship. Unlike marriage, which continues until there is an official termination, a common-law relationship will terminate if the couple does not factually continue to meet the elements of common-law.

In the absence of more current one, a stat-dec of common-law dated 2017 is probably, nonetheless, competent evidence of the relationship sufficient to constitute a supporting document, even though that only verifies the relationship was established not that it was on-going during the relevant period of time (which is necessary to qualify for the credit). If included, obviously other documentation of the on-going common-law relationship should also be included, with clear documentation of cohabitation probably being the most important.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,294
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Also For Clarification . . . again, at the risk of saying more than what needs to be said . . .

As noted, yes, it's not lying. (Apart from any other interpretation, it's not material - wouldn't affect decision)
Fully agree in the context here.

And confident you otherwise know and understand.

But just to be clear, for reference, untrue statements, even if not "lying," can negatively affect decisions whether or not the content of the statement is material.

The most important part of an application is that the applicant meets the qualifying requirements. The next most important part is the applicant's credibility. Even merely evasive but true answers, let alone answers that are misleading, deceptive, or outright false, can compromise the applicant's credibility. Note too that mistakes are not actionable misrepresentation, but if the nature or quantity of mistakes indicate the applicant is not a reliable reporter of facts, that can have a significantly negative impact even though there is no deceptive intent involved.

The consequences for material misrepresentations can be serious, even a crime (though this is not common), or grounds for inadmissibility (also not all that common and depends on what application is involved), and at least stand-alone grounds for denying an application. Even the latter is not all that common. The more common consequence is IRCC has serious doubts about the applicant's credibility, making it more difficult for the applicant to meet the burden of proof. Even though most of these cases appear to only suffer the inconvenience and delay of non-routine processing, while IRCC sorts things out, a perception of compromised credibility can be (and has been) a big factor in decisions denying an application based on the applicant's failure to meet the burden of proof. And for this, it warrants the reminder, again, that credibility is about the extent to which a person is considered a reliable reporter of facts (not just about lying).

Moreover, it warrants cautioning that IRCC's approach to what is "material" is quite broad, often more broad than many apprehend. Example: citizenship applicant reported address in Toronto while actually living in Montreal (based on consultant's advice that processing would be faster this way); claim this was not a material misrepresentation failed even though living in Quebec counted just as much as living in Ontario, so the difference in address would have no (direct) effect on the calculation of presence. Caveat: is likely Citizenship Judge was at the least highly suspicious that the applicant was not actually living in Montreal either, but the CJ, and then the Federal Court, did not need to rely on counting days to deny the application, given that a material misrepresentation constituted a stand-alone ground for denying the application, and moreover resulted in that individual being prohibited from obtaining citizenship for another five years.

Note: it might seem that making a complete application is the next most important part, second to meeting the qualifications. But an incomplete application only delays things until a complete application is made. If IRCC perceives reason to doubt the applicant's credibility, that can stay with and stain not just the processing of that application, but subsequent proceedings as well. It can be difficult to recover credibility once it has been seen as compromised.
 

lfindlay

Star Member
Jul 28, 2017
74
19
For Clarification:

At the risk of saying more than what needs to be said . . .

. . . first a note for emphasis: as referenced by @armoured, days outside Canada credited toward RO compliance based on accompanying a citizen-partner do NOT get credit toward meeting citizenship presence.



Again, for Clarification . . .

I agree with @scylla but I also recognize why you ask. Should be fine proceeding based on the responses by @scylla and @armoured.

In particular, NO NEED to read my comments. Unless you are interested. BUT I see what you mean about Question 5.3 and I will drill down into this some, hopefully more clarifying explanation than noisy verbiage.

Foremost, a REMINDER: Follow the instructions. Instructions for PR card application (IMM 5444) are contained in the Guide, IMM 5445, which is here: https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/application/application-forms-guides/guide-5445-applying-permanent-resident-card-card-first-application-replacement-renewal-change-gender-identifier.html

Again, I fully agree with @scylla in regards to the REASON for absence.

That is, it is OK state whatever the reason for the trip was, generally, briefly. No need to precisely describe particular reasons in detail. No need, for example, to elaborate that the reason for taking a holiday in Spain was to visit the Cathedral of Saint Mary of the See in Seville; "holiday" or "vacation" says enough.

In particular, unless the PR is claiming credit toward meeting the PR Residency Obligation based on one of the situations referenced as A, B, or C, it is OK to check "Other" in the "Reason for absence" column and then briefly state a general reason.

Thus, if total number of days spent outside Canada is less than 1095 days, as calculated in application form, OK to check "Other" in the "Reason for absence" column and then briefly state general reason even if time outside Canada might qualify for credit under A, B, or C. Nothing wrong, nothing misleading or deceptive, if PR in the employ of Canadian business travels for work abroad but still checks "Other" in the "Reason for absence" column and briefly states "for work;" or similarly, if PR married to citizen goes abroad for a year while spouse attends classes, checks "Other" and briefly states "living in XYZ while spouse attends school."

And that will, as @scylla notes, avoid "creating a lot more work" than necessary.

And it is not "lying." . . . or deceptive, misleading or even evasive . . . it is an honest statement of the reason.

Which leads back to question 5.3 and your concern:
5.3 Have you been accompanying a Canadian citizen who is your spouse or common-law partner or, in the case of a child, your parent, while you were absent from Canada?

Most people (or at least a lot of people) likely interpret a couple traveling together to mean each was accompanying the other, indicating the honest answer would be "yes" . . . BUT if you truthfully answer "yes" the form specifically references "supporting documents" that need to be included with the application . . . apparently whether or not the PR is claiming a credit for days abroad accompanying their citizen-partner.

NOT to WORRY. For a PR who was not outside Canada more than 1095 days, as calculated in the application form, and does not need credit for days outside Canada, "No" is OK here as well. The language IRCC employs in its instructions, forms, and notices quite often does not precisely fit all the many varied circumstances and situations covered. It is OK to use common sense and personal judgment (within objective reason of course) to best understand what is instructed, what is requested, and respond accordingly. Many here will justifiably caution against overthinking these things. And this is just one among many examples. 5.3 and related questions and instructions are easily, and safely understood to be about claiming the accompanying-citizen-partner credit.

I could drill even deeper into this, and elaborate more fully, because the term "accompanying" in this context is what jurists would call "a term of art," which is to say it has a special meaning that does not fully comport with its meaning in general usage. Which, in this specific context, would be digging into a real can of worms, because there are actually multiple, conflicting meanings for "accompanying" in this context. Not even the Federal Courts, let alone various IAD panels, agree which governs. (Warrants noting, however, the variations in meaning should only affect a very small number of PRs in very particular circumstances, of no import even to the vast majority of those PRs relying on this credit, and zero import for any PR not relying on this credit.)

Which means even if the PR was accompanying their citizen-partner, as most understand what that means, unless the PR is overtly claiming they were accompanying their citizen-spouse according to what that technically means, for purposes of qualifying for the credit, it is more than OK, actually honest to answer "no" to Question 5.3.

Thus, no need, none at all, to wander into that morass here.

All a PR needs to know is that if the PR is not claiming the accompanying-citizen-partner credit, there is no need to answer "yes" in response to question 5.3.


That said, quite a few PRs live abroad accompanying their Canadian citizen spouse/partner and rely on this credit to comply with the PR RO. If they apply for a PR Travel Document, or after returning to Canada they apply for a new PR card, then your initial query would be relevant.

I will respond to that for reference.



If not claiming any accompanying-citizen-partner credit, this does not apply. Read what follows if interested; otherwise, ignore.

For a PR outside Canada more than 1095 days and claiming accompanying-citizen-partner credit . . .

There are specific instructions for what to include with the application as proof when relying on credit for time abroad accompanying a Canadian citizen, describing what must be included and what may also be included. This is in Appendix A: Residency Obligation and in the section covering "Time spent outside Canada" for "Situation B. Accompanying a Canadian citizen outside Canada."

Clue: there is no mention of a statutory declaration of common-law union in the Appendix. So, clearly, the stat-dec is not a required document. But, if it is "proof of common-law partnership" then the PR may include it as a supporting document.

Without getting tangled in the details involved in what might be required "to prove" a common-law relationship (let alone distinguish what this might mean in contrast to where the instructions reference documents that will "show" something), perhaps the most salient aspect of establishing a common-law relationship is showing that it is an on-going relationship. Unlike marriage, which continues until there is an official termination, a common-law relationship will terminate if the couple does not factually continue to meet the elements of common-law.

In the absence of more current one, a stat-dec of common-law dated 2017 is probably, nonetheless, competent evidence of the relationship sufficient to constitute a supporting document, even though that only verifies the relationship was established not that it was on-going during the relevant period of time (which is necessary to qualify for the credit). If included, obviously other documentation of the on-going common-law relationship should also be included, with clear documentation of cohabitation probably being the most important.
Hi! I just wanted to thank you for taking the time to write this very comprehensive and thoughtful answer. It was helpful to give me additional context on some of these questions. My partner is well below 1095 days outside of Canada (more like ~130) so we said no for question 5.3

Again, really appreciate your help!