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6-month average balance must exceed funds requirement? Declaration at the border.

flognity

Member
Sep 24, 2019
10
2
Germany
Category........
FSW
NOC Code......
2174
Hello,

Related questions have probably already been discussed multiple times. Nevertheless, I couldn’t find answers to my specific questions concerning the proof of funds for Express Entry applicants.

I’m planning to transfer all my money to a Canadian bank account, because I’m going to Canada on an IEC visa in April already while awaiting an ITA. Soctiabank for example offers deals for newcomers. They specifically advertise that an account with them can be used as proof of funds before you move: https://startright.scotiabank.com/newcomers.html

On the other hand, CIC asks for the average balance of the past six month. If I transfer my money, let’s say, 1 month before I’m asked to provide a proof of funds, the 6-month average will only be 1/6 of the total balance. Therefore my question is: does the 6-month average balance need to exceed the minimum requirement of CIC or is only the current balance relevant to meet the minimum requirements? This also relates to the question whether you need to have the settlement funds at the time of application (or ITA) or are you required to have the funds 6 months prior already so that your 6-month average balance surpasses the minimum amount listed by CIC?


My next question relates to the landing procedure. If you bring more than CAN$10,000 to the country, you are obligated to declare the exact amount to the border officer. However, is this also true, if you transferred your money in advance to a Canadian bank account (because in this case, the money already is in Canada and therefore is not with you at the time of landing)? What about the money that is left in your foreign (non-Canadian) bank account? Do you also have to declare that, because you can access it with your credit card and therefore “bring” it to Canada as well?
 

lampbreaker

Champion Member
Apr 7, 2015
1,641
341
Average balance requirement is to make sure that you are not borrowing money to meet the funds. As long as you can explain the transfers, you will be fine. (Add statements/bank letter from your foreign bank also showing how you transferred from that bank to Canadian bank).
 
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canuck_in_uk

VIP Member
May 4, 2012
31,404
6,974
Visa Office......
London
App. Filed.......
06/12
Hello,

Related questions have probably already been discussed multiple times. Nevertheless, I couldn’t find answers to my specific questions concerning the proof of funds for Express Entry applicants.

I’m planning to transfer all my money to a Canadian bank account, because I’m going to Canada on an IEC visa in April already while awaiting an ITA. Soctiabank for example offers deals for newcomers. They specifically advertise that an account with them can be used as proof of funds before you move: https://startright.scotiabank.com/newcomers.html

On the other hand, CIC asks for the average balance of the past six month. If I transfer my money, let’s say, 1 month before I’m asked to provide a proof of funds, the 6-month average will only be 1/6 of the total balance. Therefore my question is: does the 6-month average balance need to exceed the minimum requirement of CIC or is only the current balance relevant to meet the minimum requirements? This also relates to the question whether you need to have the settlement funds at the time of application (or ITA) or are you required to have the funds 6 months prior already so that your 6-month average balance surpasses the minimum amount listed by CIC?


My next question relates to the landing procedure. If you bring more than CAN$10,000 to the country, you are obligated to declare the exact amount to the border officer. However, is this also true, if you transferred your money in advance to a Canadian bank account (because in this case, the money already is in Canada and therefore is not with you at the time of landing)? What about the money that is left in your foreign (non-Canadian) bank account? Do you also have to declare that, because you can access it with your credit card and therefore “bring” it to Canada as well?
As above, you need the history to show that this is your money and not a temporary infusion by someone else so that you have enough funds to qualify. You can show your foreign bank account for 5 months, the transfer to the Canadian account and then the Canadian account for a month. You need the funds when you apply.

The requirement to declare at the border applies to monetary instruments you actually physically have on you at the time. You don't declare money you've transferred or money you've left at home. Note that depending on the amount of money/assets you have outside of Canada, you may be required to declare it to CRA.
 
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dr.josemrod

Hero Member
Sep 3, 2019
346
67
Santiago, Dominican Republic
Category........
FSW
Visa Office......
Mexico
NOC Code......
0601
App. Filed.......
31-08-2019
AOR Received.
05-09-2019
Med's Done....
18-09-2019
LANDED..........
08-05-2020
Average balance requirement is to make sure that you are not borrowing money to meet the funds. As long as you can explain the transfers, you will be fine. (Add statements/bank letter from your foreign bank also showing how you transferred from that bank to Canadian bank).
Correct on this, they just need to make sure the sudden cash flow is legal and with a valid explanation.
 
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flognity

Member
Sep 24, 2019
10
2
Germany
Category........
FSW
NOC Code......
2174
Sorry, I have to bring up this topic again...

One requirement for the proof of funds is that the letter from my financial institution must include my “average balance for the past 6 months”. What does average mean in that case? There are many ways to calculate an average balance, since you can have multiple transactions per day. Should it be the average of the End-Of-Day balance, the average of the End-Of-Month balance or a time-weighted average of each change in balance (which will be a lot of effort, since I have multiple transactions per day)?

I hope you get my point. If you just take the average of all transactions on an account without any regards to time, you might end up with a meaningless number. Let’s assume the following situation: Your account has a balance of - $10.000 at the 1st of January (so you are negative and owe the bank). Then you have a source of income and your account balance is at +$10.000 at the 2nd of January. Until the 1st of June there is no other transaction in your account. How do you calculate the 6-month average of this? Just adding up the numbers and dividing by 2 (because 2 transactions), would lead to an average of $0, which is meaningless for an account that had a balance of +$10.000 for 5 months and 29 days.
 

lampbreaker

Champion Member
Apr 7, 2015
1,641
341
It is not a big deal. The bank can use their own calculation. As above, the important thing is that any large transfers need to be explained.
 
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dr.josemrod

Hero Member
Sep 3, 2019
346
67
Santiago, Dominican Republic
Category........
FSW
Visa Office......
Mexico
NOC Code......
0601
App. Filed.......
31-08-2019
AOR Received.
05-09-2019
Med's Done....
18-09-2019
LANDED..........
08-05-2020
Sorry, I have to bring up this topic again...

One requirement for the proof of funds is that the letter from my financial institution must include my “average balance for the past 6 months”. What does average mean in that case? There are many ways to calculate an average balance, since you can have multiple transactions per day. Should it be the average of the End-Of-Day balance, the average of the End-Of-Month balance or a time-weighted average of each change in balance (which will be a lot of effort, since I have multiple transactions per day)?

I hope you get my point. If you just take the average of all transactions on an account without any regards to time, you might end up with a meaningless number. Let’s assume the following situation: Your account has a balance of - $10.000 at the 1st of January (so you are negative and owe the bank). Then you have a source of income and your account balance is at +$10.000 at the 2nd of January. Until the 1st of June there is no other transaction in your account. How do you calculate the 6-month average of this? Just adding up the numbers and dividing by 2 (because 2 transactions), would lead to an average of $0, which is meaningless for an account that had a balance of +$10.000 for 5 months and 29 days.
You are complicating things over nothing.

Banks make this calculation based on end of month balance, you don't calculate this. It's a parameter used to determine which is the normal amount of money a person has month in and month out in their account.

If you have -10,000 and add 10,000, you have 0, if this stays like that for 6 months your average will be 0.

We had an account with an average of 60K DOP, when submitting our POF it had 822K DOP, we explained that the sudden influx of cash came from an investment fund we had, which we took from to add to our savings account.

That's what they want to see.
 

flognity

Member
Sep 24, 2019
10
2
Germany
Category........
FSW
NOC Code......
2174
You are complicating things over nothing.

Banks make this calculation based on end of month balance, you don't calculate this. It's a parameter used to determine which is the normal amount of money a person has month in and month out in their account.

If you have -10,000 and add 10,000, you have 0, if this stays like that for 6 months your average will be 0.

We had an account with an average of 60K DOP, when submitting our POF it had 822K DOP, we explained that the sudden influx of cash came from an investment fund we had, which we took from to add to our savings account.

That's what they want to see.
In my example, the account balance after 2nd of January would be $10,000 for 5 months and 29 days (because of an income of 20,000). Without any time-weight, the average would be 0, when it should be closer to $10,000.


I'm just curious, since I work in the IT department of a German bank. The instruction of CIC is not clear on that. There is no general way of doing it, so each bank will use its own way of calculating the average. Therefore, I want to be as clear as possible and provide my bank with information, so that they can calculate the average according to the requirements of CIC.


I found this entry, where this topic was discussed before:

https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/average-balance-for-the-past-six-months-average-balance-calculation.495028/


As far as I understand, there is no general requirement from CIC. They just want to see 6 calculated averages (one for each month of the past 6 month). Do they also want to have a number for all 6 months?
 

lampbreaker

Champion Member
Apr 7, 2015
1,641
341
In my example, the account balance after 2nd of January would be $10,000 for 5 months and 29 days (because of an income of 20,000). Without any time-weight, the average would be 0, when it should be closer to $10,000.


I'm just curious, since I work in the IT department of a German bank. The instruction of CIC is not clear on that. There is no general way of doing it, so each bank will use its own way of calculating the average. Therefore, I want to be as clear as possible and provide my bank with information, so that they can calculate the average according to the requirements of CIC.


I found this entry, where this topic was discussed before:

https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/average-balance-for-the-past-six-months-average-balance-calculation.495028/


As far as I understand, there is no general requirement from CIC. They just want to see 6 calculated averages (one for each month of the past 6 month). Do they also want to have a number for all 6 months?
Again, this is not a big deal. All they want to see is a number under '6 month average balance' and compare that number the 'latest balance'. If the two are very different then you have to explain. Otherwise, no big deal.
 

flognity

Member
Sep 24, 2019
10
2
Germany
Category........
FSW
NOC Code......
2174
Again, this is not a big deal. All they want to see is a number under '6 month average balance' and compare that number the 'latest balance'. If the two are very different then you have to explain. Otherwise, no big deal.
Here comes my problem. It is a big deal. My bank just told me, they cannot provide anything else than plain transaction-based statements. No averages or whatsoever. On top of that, all statements are in German only. My bank is not willing to provide "special" information, because they said, I would be the only one wanting something special. All they do is German bank statements. For 6 months this would be about 30 pages of statements spread over 6 PDFs.

Do you have any suggestions for this case?
 

Mike@2019

Hero Member
Oct 13, 2019
308
83
Here comes my problem. It is a big deal. My bank just told me, they cannot provide anything else than plain transaction-based statements. No averages or whatsoever. On top of that, all statements are in German only. My bank is not willing to provide "special" information, because they said, I would be the only one wanting something special. All they do is German bank statements. For 6 months this would be about 30 pages of statements spread over 6 PDFs.

Do you have any suggestions for this case?
I am in the same situation. My bank is not following CIC format. They're giving me just a reference letter that states when I opened my account with them and that I have no debts. They're not giving me an average of 6 months or whatsoever. They're not even mentioning how much I have in my account. This is not their policy.
As my 60 days are running out next week, I have decided to write a LOE and attach my 6 months bank statement.
The bank letter has their contact, they can call to verify if they wish.
 
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flognity

Member
Sep 24, 2019
10
2
Germany
Category........
FSW
NOC Code......
2174
I am in the same situation. My bank is not following CIC format. They're giving me just a reference letter that states when I opened my account with them and that I have no debts. They're not giving me an average of 6 months or whatsoever. They're not even mentioning how much I have in my account. This is not their policy.
As my 60 days are running out next week, I have decided to write a LOE and attach my 6 months bank statement.
The bank letter has their contact, they can call to verify if they wish.
Did you include a translation of the bank statements? It would be quite expensive for about 30 pages (probably about 30 to 50 Euros per page).
 
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Xtensio

Full Member
May 8, 2019
26
6
Did you include a translation of the bank statements? It would be quite expensive for about 30 pages (probably about 30 to 50 Euros per page).
You need to have the statements translated in English. I had the same problem with my German account. I ended up complaining to the manager and wrote a template for them with all the informations including the average balance (“Monatsendsaldo” for each month). After I complained they were finally able to sign it.

You can PMme if you have any specific questions how I handled it with that bank and the options you have
The Translation was about 10$ per page
 
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