As the title implies I will have accrued 1090 days outside of Canada by the time I plan to renew my card, with 736 days in country. I know that these meet the RO requirements but I'm wondering should I leave the renewal for another while to reduce my outside days? I've a trip planned and was going to renew before I left but if 1090 days outside is cutting it too close I should rethink my travel plans?
1090 outside days cutting it too close?
- Thread starter kennykill
- Start date
My experience:
I had 980 days out. I got a letter to go in to pick up my card. They questioned why I had so many days out, but were satisfied with my answer (we didn't move right away after we landed).
If you are from a visa-exempt country, I think that waiting to renew would work well, especially if you can enter by land. I crossed the border (by land, in my own car) at least 50 times after my pr card expired and I had applied for a new one. It was never a problem--sometimes they just scanned my pr card; sometimes they preferred my Nexus card. My pr card would up "expired" for them, and I would just explain that I was waiting for my new one. I think if you explained your situation, you wouldn't have a problem--you could try calling the border you would be crossing (if you can do it by land) to see what they say (smaller crossings seem more willing to be flexible, in my experience).
Also, I saw an earlier post of yours asking about whether to report day trips out of the country. I did not (and I had many, many of them).
I had 980 days out. I got a letter to go in to pick up my card. They questioned why I had so many days out, but were satisfied with my answer (we didn't move right away after we landed).
If you are from a visa-exempt country, I think that waiting to renew would work well, especially if you can enter by land. I crossed the border (by land, in my own car) at least 50 times after my pr card expired and I had applied for a new one. It was never a problem--sometimes they just scanned my pr card; sometimes they preferred my Nexus card. My pr card would up "expired" for them, and I would just explain that I was waiting for my new one. I think if you explained your situation, you wouldn't have a problem--you could try calling the border you would be crossing (if you can do it by land) to see what they say (smaller crossings seem more willing to be flexible, in my experience).
Also, I saw an earlier post of yours asking about whether to report day trips out of the country. I did not (and I had many, many of them).
Thanks for the responses guys.
I spent a large amount of the days (1068 days) outside the country from when I landed March 2009 until end of Feb 2012. Nothing to exempt me, I was in college in the UK, and then Australia and Ireland working. I knew I had to came back here in Mar 2012 to meet the RO and have spent my time here since then. I've had a 3 main trips; one back to Ireland (8 days), one to the UK (7 days), and one to the States (5 days) with 1 or 2 days along with some day trips to the States. I had calculated my RO off my PR card award date but luckily found out on here that it's not how renewal is calculated. So by the date I renew at the start of April I will have 736 days in country and 1090 outside of country. I was planning to apply the day I depart but if you guys reckon it's too risky I'll have to cancel my trip. Is it risky from the stand point that I might have missed some days in my calculations, or risky in the sense that I will risk having to report to the CIC office to answer questions?
Hana90, did you tell the officer that you were living out of the country for no particular reason just that you weren't ready to move here? Like I said, I don't have any exemptions as I understood the RO and I'm confident in my dates and everything is above board. I haven't missed any days and all are accountable. If I don't mention the day trips to the States they might check my CBSA entry records and see random entries but I can explain them.
I spent a large amount of the days (1068 days) outside the country from when I landed March 2009 until end of Feb 2012. Nothing to exempt me, I was in college in the UK, and then Australia and Ireland working. I knew I had to came back here in Mar 2012 to meet the RO and have spent my time here since then. I've had a 3 main trips; one back to Ireland (8 days), one to the UK (7 days), and one to the States (5 days) with 1 or 2 days along with some day trips to the States. I had calculated my RO off my PR card award date but luckily found out on here that it's not how renewal is calculated. So by the date I renew at the start of April I will have 736 days in country and 1090 outside of country. I was planning to apply the day I depart but if you guys reckon it's too risky I'll have to cancel my trip. Is it risky from the stand point that I might have missed some days in my calculations, or risky in the sense that I will risk having to report to the CIC office to answer questions?
Hana90, did you tell the officer that you were living out of the country for no particular reason just that you weren't ready to move here? Like I said, I don't have any exemptions as I understood the RO and I'm confident in my dates and everything is above board. I haven't missed any days and all are accountable. If I don't mention the day trips to the States they might check my CBSA entry records and see random entries but I can explain them.
Personally, I wouldn't risk it. It is about mis-calculation of days as well as immigration possibly not believing your days and wanting proof. Do you have proof of all your travel dates?
Another thing to consider. Does your upcoming trip put you in breach of the RO? You will have 1090 outside when you apply but when you leave for your trip, will you be adding outside days or are you eating up a period spent outside Canada anyway 5 years ago?
As a PR, you must always meet the RO. It's not just about meeting it when you apply to renew but all the time.
Another thing to consider. Does your upcoming trip put you in breach of the RO? You will have 1090 outside when you apply but when you leave for your trip, will you be adding outside days or are you eating up a period spent outside Canada anyway 5 years ago?
As a PR, you must always meet the RO. It's not just about meeting it when you apply to renew but all the time.
Re: 1090 outside days cutting it too close? // Requesting info from Hana90 //
Hi, This seems to be a great thread. I need some more information from Hana90. You said some 50 times you traveled in and out through US-Canada land borders with expired PR card. Do you have visa exempt country's passport? If not please share some of your experiences at the US-Canada borders while entering Canada. How smooth was the entry? Did they not question you each time about residency obligations, which ports you traveled through. Regards. Thanks in advance.
Hi, This seems to be a great thread. I need some more information from Hana90. You said some 50 times you traveled in and out through US-Canada land borders with expired PR card. Do you have visa exempt country's passport? If not please share some of your experiences at the US-Canada borders while entering Canada. How smooth was the entry? Did they not question you each time about residency obligations, which ports you traveled through. Regards. Thanks in advance.
Re: 1090 outside days cutting it too close? // Requesting info from Hana90 //
It appears that Hana90 is actually a US citizen with a Canadian PR, which would make a HUGE difference as he wasn't leaving the US at all, but returning back to Canada daily (hence the 50 odd trips back and forth) I think your situation (as well as many here questioning the RO) will not match up with his and shouldn't be compared to his either.
sammy_2401 said:
It appears that Hana90 is actually a US citizen with a Canadian PR, which would make a HUGE difference as he wasn't leaving the US at all, but returning back to Canada daily (hence the 50 odd trips back and forth) I think your situation (as well as many here questioning the RO) will not match up with his and shouldn't be compared to his either.
Leon said:
I'm pretty confident in my dates, I've used excel and entered every trip. I can prove a 2 day trip in Jan 2012 for interviews and then I have lots of proof for when I moved here in March 2012 (flight itineraries and receipts, shipping documents. etc.). For the road trips to the States its a bit more tricky but for most of them I have US border stamps in my passport.
I was wondering about meeting the RO if I leave. I was under the impression that once I apply for renewal and I satisfied the RO for that 5 year period, any day after that is calculated in the next renewal (e.g. April 2020)? I'm planning a 10 day break so that would put me over 1095 days but I would already have my application for renewal sent in.
Right, I am a US citizen. Many of my trips outside the country were day trips; some were overnights (so I could still count both days, as I was in Canada part of each day). The reason (true) that I gave when I picked up my card is that we had bought a house in Windsor, Ontario, hoping to move there and still commute to my job in Michigan. Unfortunately, we were unable to sell the Michigan house, so we usually stayed in Michigan, just spending weekends in Windsor for the first two years of our permanent residence.
My entries after my card expired were always at small crossings. I'm not sure they would have gone as smoothly at the Detroit/Windsor crossing I used to use.
I do agree with the concern about proof. That was a scary part for me, as I didn't have proof for all my dates (except for the CBSA/CBP reports).
My entries after my card expired were always at small crossings. I'm not sure they would have gone as smoothly at the Detroit/Windsor crossing I used to use.
I do agree with the concern about proof. That was a scary part for me, as I didn't have proof for all my dates (except for the CBSA/CBP reports).
kennykill said:
You might get away with it but meeting the RO in order to renew your PR card doesn't mean you are off the hook for the next 5 years. The rules say once you have been a PR for 5 years, you must meet the RO in any rolling 5 year period of the previous 5 years counting from any date.
For example, an IO can report you any time you enter Canada if they believe you don't meet the RO. If they do, they will look at the previous 5 years counting backwards from your report date, regardless of how new or old your PR card is.
Similar, if you are outside Canada with your PR card and it is stolen, lost or destroyed and you are in the position of having to apply for a travel document in order to return, they will look at the 5 years previous to your application. They will not ask or care how long your PR card was still valid.
Thanks Hana90, that seems a viable reasoning. Mine would be a bit more up in the air having made the decision not to move back to Canada until I was ready and finishing some education and working elsewhere. Still, I meet the RO and can prove my dates so I don't think I would be at too much of a risk to renew, however being instructed to meet the officer would make me nervous cause I wouldn't know how they would react to my explanations for absences or my proof.
Thanks for the explanation Leon, clearly my interpretation of the rolling period wasn't right. That definitely makes things more complicated and makes me think that the RO isn't as easy as others might think. Yes its about counting days outside the country and a bit more lenient than other countries but if you're not fully aware of how the system works then people will have big problems not just to renew their cards but also after that. I'll stay here for another while to get my outside days down and then think about travelling at another time.
Thanks again mate, as alot of people on here point out you and the others provide a very valuable service.
Leon said:
Thanks for the explanation Leon, clearly my interpretation of the rolling period wasn't right. That definitely makes things more complicated and makes me think that the RO isn't as easy as others might think. Yes its about counting days outside the country and a bit more lenient than other countries but if you're not fully aware of how the system works then people will have big problems not just to renew their cards but also after that. I'll stay here for another while to get my outside days down and then think about travelling at another time.
Thanks again mate, as alot of people on here point out you and the others provide a very valuable service.
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