10 th draw lets B Positive

[marcus66504]

This whole discussion about the fairness of Express Entry is pointless.

Express entry or not, it doesn't matter what system CIC comes up with for selecting immigrants. People are always going to scream that it's "Not Fair" UNLESS it gives them PR.

So really, if you have an opinion at all on this subject, it's an opinion that comes "from the barrel of your gun", as my university philosophy professor used to say. There's no absolute substance to it, nor can there be. An opinion on this subject would only have one purpose: to serve your own interests.

I have looked long and hard into a lot of these "discussions" and I have never found anyone who defends an immigrant selection system on its own merits when they themselves don't get PR quickly under it.

 

[terulinkarezinka]

Re: 10 th draw No Hopes Group

Dear oh dear. I don't know where to begin. You were doing fine before mass immigration? That argument alone is totally wrong. I work in a field where I'm able to see first hand just how many different career fields are actively looking for skilled foreign workers to enter Canada in an attempt to alleviate crippling worker shortages. You mention doctors are a dime a dozen... I've lived in four communities in this country over the past several years and each of those community's hospitals were crying out for more doctors. The community I'm living in today actually has to bid against rival communities for foreign doctors. Many of those working in high-up positions in the energy industry are American, Chinese or Japanese nationals.

You ask us why we don't stay in our own country and contribute to our own society... I don't speak for myself here, but maybe it's because they have been granted the opportunity to further themselves professionally and economically by taking a job in Canada. Maybe their country of origin really isn't that great and they wanted a better life for themselves and their family. Maybe, just maybe, they were perfectly happy in their own country but were promised the world by Canadian institutions if they packed their bags and moved to Canada to study.

This argument you're trying to press home that Canadians should be given every opportunity for every job in the country might work for large urban centres. It might work for some entry-level/moderate skilled worker positions, but what about those jobs where there isn't a Canadian that fits the bill. What about those communities who no matter how hard they try, just can't convince Canadians to move there. Your argument is nonsensical and I think you know that.

You are right. Canada is growing fast and many places here struggle with deficit of labor - that's why LMIA holders and PNs should be done first. Just LMIA application costs employer $1000, not to mention that some of them take up to 6 months to be processed and then another 3 months of waiting for WP.

Canada is amazing place and honestly, I think that good professionals will find their way in through EE. Last year, CIC did many changes, put caps on all the categories and PNPs were slowed down to the lever or being useless. Now the CIC is giving chance to those, that were stopped from applying due to the preparation of EE. Imagine for example all those of 8,000 applicants, whose PR applications were returned by the beginning of the year, because CIC made a mistake and accepted them in error (due to cap reached). Some of these people didnt hold valid WP anymore, their ECA and IELTS were expired. Some of the them had to leave Canada for good. Those who were lucky and still had valid WP got their chance now and got advantage of 600 points for their LMIAs, so they are on the top of the list. These people will eventually be all either gone or will become PR and the current statistics say that there are not many LMIAs issued this years, as well as PNPs - so the points required will go down, but hardly under certain level....

 

[Pickers91]

Re: 10 th draw No Hopes Group

I have said already, we only want immigrants to fill the holes... Don't know what you're getting butthurt about.

Yes and there are crippling shortages in communities in other countries too. What's your point? Go fill the shortage in your own country then. Would India or Japan or China like it if all white Canadians moved into their country on the basis of "we're here to work in your community hospitals"? For that matter do they even have immigration policies?

I'm sorry, but we were doing fine before mass immigration. We need people to fill only gaps.

Butthurt? How old are you?

I'm sure each of those countries would be absolutely delighted if Canadians wanted to work over there. I'm not sure how that's really relevant though considering we're talking about people moving to Canada. It's not like India, Japan or China are really on the same level as Canada when it comes to standard of living.

If you need people to fill gaps only, then why is the government offering this express entry system under false pretenses? Why encourage skilled workers to apply? Why encourage foreign students to study at your schools? The fact you think the country was "doing fine" before mass immigration is laughable. Without immigration, Canada wouldn't be anywhere near as economically prosperous as it is today.

Like I've already said, I don't have any money in this particular argument. I'm in regardless. I just think it's pathetic that this so called Express Entry system is operating the way it is right now. It's giving thousands upon thousands of potential immigrants false hope that they'll one day be able to move to Canada and it's ignoring those who have already built lives and careers for themselves here under past promises that they would be afforded every opportunity to stay upon completion of their studies.

 

[Pickers91]

Re: 10 th draw No Hopes Group

You are right. Canada is growing fast and many places here struggle with deficit of labor - that's why LMIA holders and PNs should be done first. Just LMIA application costs employer $1000, not to mention that some of them take up to 6 months to be processed and then another 3 months of waiting for WP.

Canada is amazing place and honestly, I think that good professionals will find their way in through EE. Last year, CIC did many changes, put caps on all the categories and PNPs were slowed down to the lever or being useless. Now the CIC is giving chance to those, that were stopped from applying due to the preparation of EE. Imagine for example all those of 8,000 applicants, whose PR applications were returned by the beginning of the year, because CIC made a mistake and accepted them in error (due to cap reached). Some of these people didnt hold valid WP anymore, their ECA and IELTS were expired. Some of the them had to leave Canada for good. Those who were lucky and still had valid WP got their chance now and got advantage of 600 points for their LMIAs, so they are on the top of the list. These people will eventually be all either gone or will become PR and the current statistics say that there are not many LMIAs issued this years, as well as PNPs - so the points required will go down, but hardly under certain level....

Those are good points and while I can appreciate CIC wanting to make up for their past mistakes, they're creating further problems for themselves by ignoring another group of would-be permanent residents who could soon too be forced to pack their bags and leave. I do though understand what you're saying and it's certainly a great and valid point.

 

[Pickers91]

Re: 10 th draw No Hopes Group

Yeah you know you're bull*censored word*ting.

We were doing fine before mass immigration. We're not here to build economies, we're here to build a culture and community.

Nice edit Wouldn't want those thinly-veiled racial remarks highlighted on here for too long eh, however wrong and misguided they may have been.

 

[terulinkarezinka]

Re: 10 th draw No Hopes Group

Those are good points and while I can appreciate CIC wanting to make up for their past mistakes, they're creating further problems for themselves by ignoring another group of would-be permanent residents who could soon too be forced to pack their bags and leave. I do though understand what you're saying and it's certainly a great and valid point.

Crossing fingers for you, PGWP holders are not in good position right now and I understand your frustration and disappointment. I have a good friend in the same position. And I was packing my luggage until the end of march....I personally think that all the people with LMIA and PNP were nominated yesterday and now the points will go back lower, hopefully giving graduates a chance.

 

[marcus66504]

It's hard for people to remain positive about Express Entry, especially those in situations like myself, when the individuals charged with running the program are as dishonest as they have been. The program itself (admittedly only five months in) has done almost the complete opposite of what Chris Alexander, and to a greater extent Stephen Harper, promised it would do when they first announced to the public it last year. I've been in Canada since 2007... Went through two years of high school, a three-year college program and have been working full-time now for almost three years. I'm in a management level position and living in an area that typically struggles to attract skilled Canadian workers. Still though, I'm not deemed suitable or qualified enough for express entry...

When it was first introduced, Alexander claimed this program would "revolutionize" immigration services in Canada. It would make things faster, easier and more efficient for those looking to enter the country and would allow Canada to more effectively cipher through applicants and grant access to the most qualified/likely to come in and both acclimatize to the Canadian way of life and become an asset to the country. In my opinion though, this program was designed for larger corporations to fill entry level positions. It certainly wasn't designed to make immigration into Canada faster/easier for skilled workers. How else could you explain the fact those with less points than most of us on these boards, bloated by positive LMIAs, have been welcomed with open arms over the past few months.

Screw Express Entry. I've been forced into having my Canadian partner bring me in via spousal sponsorship now. It's pretty ridiculous how difficult it is for international students to gain permanent residency... Especially considering Canadian institutions spend so much time and money traveling overseas attempting to convince potential students Canada is the best place for them. It's a con. Come here, spend $50,000 plus in tuition fees only to be told you have to go home several years later. If not for my spouse, I'd be in a very precarious position right now and it's not fair. The bureaucrats in Ottawa have a lot of work to do with this program if they want to make the Canadian immigration system as fair, equal and transparent as they claim they want it to be.

If it weren't for my wife, there would be absolutely no way I'd stay in this country. The way that CIC is messing people around and playing with people's lives is ridiculous. There are other places out there, better places, that would be more than happy to open their arms and welcome you in.

All I'll say is good luck everybody. I truly hope you get the news you're waiting for. Just don't count on it.

Are you saying that you and your "partner" are in collusion, faking a "relationship" for the purpose of getting you immigrant status?

It sounds like you wouldn't have gone into this "relationship" if you had qualified for immigration independently. Now, THAT is illegal.

 

[kateg]

Re: 10 th draw No Hopes Group

I highly doubt they're assimilating properly. Nevertheless, so what if they have a high paying job? If they're an accountant for example, a real Canadian could easily take over their job. Canada needs to fill jobs that Canadians are unable or unwilling to fill, not to hand out PR to foreigners.

Some international students assimilate fine. I'm one of them, but I'm from the states. Most of the students I've attended with don't assimilate at all if they can possibly avoid it.

As for EE, there is no reason for the government to invite people for PR just because they took a few classes and managed not to fail. Sure, it can help with success a little bit, but ultimately Canada isn't a charity.

I have quite a lot of specialized experience. Without a LMIA job offer, I get a couple hundred points (no degree). With one, I get 840+. Canada doesn't want me coming and taking away jobs, but if I find one that Canadians weren't qualified for (which I did), they welcome me with open arms. This is entirely logical, and their country, their rules.

My spouse is also rather qualified. With a Master's degree, years of experience, and perfect English scores, it's not particularly surprising she got an ITA quickly. With our businesses, her and I create jobs, rather than just taking them. We pay over $100,000 a year in taxes, contribute to the economy, and assimilate flawlessly.

Why would Canada prefer someone who graduated with a 3 year liberal arts degree and spent a few years working in largely unskilled labour over someone who has years of specialized experience? Why does living in Canada for a few years magically make someone a better candidate?

 

[sealy]

Re: 10 th draw No Hopes Group

So, let's send away from Canada a cook, who has been working like a horse for his employer for years and has been paying taxes and spending his paycheck here and bring in post doc instead, who will be totally new to this culture and will start here from the scratch. Post docs are not gonna fill the labor market demand. People with LMIAs and PNPs work hard to be in Canada and they don't deserve to be put down for not having fancy degrees. Many of them have university education but worked their way through different field because they are following the market demand. They still have to pass english tests.

And I'm not trying to say they don't deserve to be successful in EE, but I believe that was not the primary purpose - at least not now, when many people in Canada stuck on work permits were deemed to leave after all the other programs were practically closed. They will logically be the firs ones and qualified workers from outside with outstanding education and language skills will go later. After all, those outside Canada are not pushed by WP expiry dates.

That is not what I was trying to say. I actually agree with you that someone who has committed several years of his/her life to the Canadian economy, whether a cook or a postdoc, should have priority over applicants living outside.

 

[terulinkarezinka]

Are you saying that you and your "partner" are in collusion, faking a "relationship" for the purpose of getting you immigrant status?

It sounds like you wouldn't have gone into this "relationship" if you had qualified for immigration independently. Now, THAT is illegal.

I would rather say that no one prefers to be dependent with their paperwork on a relationship - and who can tell their relationship will last forever.

Spousal sponsorship is probably at the end of CICs priority list as they are mostly on implied status in Canada, able to work, so there is not rush. BUT these people are often locked up for years from travelling outside Canada, not to mention the stress of the lengthy process.

 

[Pickers91]

Are you saying that you and your "partner" are in collusion, faking a "relationship" for the purpose of getting you immigrant status?

It sounds like you wouldn't have gone into this "relationship" if you had qualified for immigration independently. Now, THAT is illegal.

Considering my partner and I have been together since Grade 12 of high school, I'd say that's unlikely. The comment you've highlighted quite clearly states that since Express Entry is experiencing... Shall we say growing pains right now, I'm having to pursue spousal sponsorship as my way of gaining permanent residency. My preferred route would have of course been the old Canadian Experience Class program, but it appears the government isn't putting too much of a priority on that particular program right now. Why was that my preferred route? Because it has traditionally been a formality for individuals qualifying under that program to receive permanent residency, and the processing times are much quicker than spousal sponsorship applications. Still, I guess I should be happy that I qualify under any program at all. Many in my situation won't be as fortunate.

 

[kateg]

Re: 10 th draw No Hopes Group

That is not what I was trying to say. I actually agree with you that someone who has committed several years of his/her life to the Canadian economy, whether a cook or a postdoc, should have priority over applicants living outside.

Why? Canada owes them nothing beyond what was promised - an education, or the temporary right to work.

 

[kateg]

Re: 10 th draw No Hopes Group

Living in Canada for a few years DOES NOT make someone a better candidate. Nor does paying over $100,000 a year in taxes.

We're not here to create economies, we're here to create a culture and community. It doesn't matter what nationality you are, we need people that can 1)fill job gaps, and also 2)be able to assimilate.

They do want job creators, but that's a different economic program.

As for filling job gaps, and assimilating, my wife and I do that just fine.

 

[marcus66504]

Re: 10 th draw No Hopes Group

Nice edit Wouldn't want those thinly-veiled racial remarks highlighted on here for too long eh, however wrong and misguided they may have been.

There was no racial remarks in his post.

Your speeches can be summed in one line "I deserve PR more than person X does because I studied in Canada and I'm already working there."

It's the same line, said over and over by everyone in your situation, to deaf ears, and rightly so!

The Government of Canada never made any promises of you getting PR solely because of studying here. The best that might have happened is your college/university might have suggested at the possibility of easily getting PR if you study at their school (i.e. pay them tuition money). If you couldn't see their lure as just advertising hype, then I'm not sure what can be said about your critical thinking skills.

I have dared many people in your situation (would-be CEC's) to show me some document, signed by an official of the Government of Canada, that promises foreign students PR status just for studying in Canada. So far nobody has been able to produce any such document.

 

[terulinkarezinka]

Re: 10 th draw No Hopes Group

Why? Canada owes them nothing beyond what was promised - an education, or the temporary right to work.

The whole conversation is not about committing few years in Canada - it was actually about people having valid job offer supported by LMIA, which proves high labour market demand. And those should be priority regardless level of education.