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Citizenship test: Collective action required, or expect endless delays, years. Example of the effective lobbyng of people awaiting spousal sponsorship

piotrqc

Hero Member
Aug 10, 2020
391
451

An interesting article on radio-canada (The French section of CBC), here is the translation:


Mathieu Dion (access the author's page)
Mathieu Dion
Mathieu Dion
4:01 am | Updated at 1:56 p.m.
Justin Trudeau’s Liberals recently announced plans to require all 300,000 federal public service workers to be vaccinated. On Tuesday, Conservative Leader Erin O’Toole instead promised unvaccinated officials that they would opt for rapid drug tests. What would the courts say?

The lawyer specializing in labor law at Lavery De Billy, Marie-Hélène Jolicoeur, says she is approached by many employers who would like to impose a standard of this nature. It is whether the infringement of the fundamental right - physical integrity - is a minimal infringement, she says. If we have a guaranteed right, in order to infringe it, it must be done as minimally as possible.

At the heart of the debate is section 7 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms: Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person; this right can only be infringed in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice.

We are very clear: Federal officials must be vaccinated. We will work with the unions and all the partners to make sure this is done.

A quote from: Justin Trudeau, Leader of the Liberal Party of Canada
I think this is a Charter violation, admits lawyer Julius Gray of compulsory vaccination, before adding that it might be justified. The function of the employees must be taken into account, he says.

The risks for those who work in a cubicle are lower than for their colleagues who meet citizens, for example. We cannot have a measure applicable to all without distinction, adds Me Jolicoeur, without seeing the reasons that could be alleged by the person either.

To override a Charter guarantee, the obligation must have a laudable purpose and there must be a connection between that purpose and the restriction, says Gray. Where it gets complicated, he says, is whether there is something less restrictive as a substitute.

The legal debate, he said, would focus on the quality of the alternative to vaccination and it would take experts to say whether it is sufficient or not.

A screening test, minimal damage?
The alternative proposed by the Conservative Party of Canada is to ask unvaccinated public servants to undergo rapid screening tests.

I encourage all Canadians and Quebecers to get vaccinated, but it is possible to use rapid screening tests for federal officials who have not been vaccinated.

A quote from: Erin O’Toole, Leader of the Conservative Party of Canada
According to the medical microbiologist-infectious disease specialist at the CHU de Québec-Université Laval Jean Longtin, vaccination and rapid screening tests should however be considered as complementary approaches. The test is an intervention which has an effectiveness of 20 to 30% [to detect the virus in asymptomatic patients] and we want to compare it with the vaccination which has 95% effectiveness against infection and almost 100% against death, he argues. It’s a bit misleading to dare to compare the two.

Within the meaning of the law, the attack on physical integrity posed by these tests nevertheless appears, in the eyes of Me Marie-Hélène Jolicoeur, more minimal since it is not a question of injecting a product into someone's veins. a.

Is it possible to charge for the tests?
So far, the federal government has signed agreements for more than 48 million rapid screening tests at a cost of nearly $ 927 million, or $ 19 per test.

Assuming that an unvaccinated official had to undergo several tests per week, it would be difficult for the State to demand reimbursement from him, all the more so in the absence of a clause provided for this purpose in the collective agreements.

If it were an absolutely prohibitive amount, I think there would be a fundamental rights argument, but if not, it would be a matter of labor relations, emphasizes Mr. Julius Gray.

Case law does not yet offer all the answers to the exceptional measures which must be adopted to face the pandemic ... and which will undoubtedly have to undergo the test of the courts.
 

piotrqc

Hero Member
Aug 10, 2020
391
451
After Quebec, British Columbia announces a vaccination card...


Recalcitrant worshipers of the 699 vaccation code will soon have no choice but to return to the office ...

Let's also keep our fingers crossed that the Liberals prevail = They have an election promise to force ALL federal officials (including those from IRCC) to get double vaccinated.

Verdict on September 20.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/covid19-vaccine-update-bc-1.6149947
 

rajkamalmohanram

VIP Member
Apr 29, 2015
15,802
5,769
I have requested the following information from their corporate records via the Access to Information Act :


Please provide any and all records including but not limited to memos, briefing notes, internal notes, reports, discussions, emails, policies pertaining to ALL of the following for timeline between Jan 01, 2021 till the date this request is processed :

1. The total number of applicants invited for the online testing for the timeline mentioned above.
2. The total number of applicants invited for the virtual / in-person oath ceremonies for the timeline mentioned above.
3. The total number of applications in backlog categorized as follows : Applicants awaiting Background checks to be complete, Applicants awaiting a test invite and Applicants awaiting oath invitation for the timeline mentioned above.
4. The total number of "Decision Made" status issued for applicants for the timeline mentioned above.
5. Plans and measures being pursued to minimize backlog for applicants waiting for the online citizenship test AND virtual oath ceremony.
6. Increasing the number of online oath ceremonies and/or increasing the number of participants per ceremony (including holding in-person and online testing in parallel to maximize efficiency)
 

umanitoba

Hero Member
May 30, 2015
831
166
I have requested the following information from their corporate records via the Access to Information Act :


Please provide any and all records including but not limited to memos, briefing notes, internal notes, reports, discussions, emails, policies pertaining to ALL of the following for timeline between Jan 01, 2021 till the date this request is processed :

1. The total number of applicants invited for the online testing for the timeline mentioned above.
2. The total number of applicants invited for the virtual / in-person oath ceremonies for the timeline mentioned above.
3. The total number of applications in backlog categorized as follows : Applicants awaiting Background checks to be complete, Applicants awaiting a test invite and Applicants awaiting oath invitation for the timeline mentioned above.
4. The total number of "Decision Made" status issued for applicants for the timeline mentioned above.
5. Plans and measures being pursued to minimize backlog for applicants waiting for the online citizenship test AND virtual oath ceremony.
6. Increasing the number of online oath ceremonies and/or increasing the number of participants per ceremony (including holding in-person and online testing in parallel to maximize efficiency)
Thank you so much, this is a very valuable information and can prove the randomness of this process and hopefully with some work we can push them to improve the process and respect every applicant. Please keep us posted on the outcome of this request.
 

jonka5

Full Member
Aug 17, 2021
27
14
thank you for the request. That's the only way to get a better picture of what's going on (the spreadsheet while useful is certainly incomplete). Do you have any ideas as to when you might get a reply?
 
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rajkamalmohanram

VIP Member
Apr 29, 2015
15,802
5,769
People like us waiting since 2019. Requesting info starting 2021 might no include old backlog folks who are waiting desperately
I have asked for the information on backlog as well. This will include 2019 applicants who are still waiting.

I already requested similar information before for a different timeline (from the start of online test/oath till January 2021), you can find the entire document here =>

https://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/threads/citizenship-test-collective-action-required-or-expect-endless-delays-years-example-of-the-effective-lobbyng-of-people-awaiting-spousal-sponsorship.697691/post-9378953
 
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rajkamalmohanram

VIP Member
Apr 29, 2015
15,802
5,769
thank you for the request. That's the only way to get a better picture of what's going on (the spreadsheet while useful is certainly incomplete). Do you have any ideas as to when you might get a reply?
They might ask 2 extensions for this like they did last time. So, I'm assuming it might take 3 months to finally receive this document.
 

ott-613

Hero Member
Dec 16, 2019
377
175
A little late to the game but I felt compelled to address your post. Although this is veering to the psychological realm of are people inherently "good" or "bad", those in question are not just friends, relatives, colleagues, etc.; we're looking at the human population as a whole. And though Canadians especially are known for their positive behavior and attitude, without a doubt, the majority of people will take advantage of their environment if given the chance. This psychological egoism is an inherent trait, especially in today's world; people today, more than ever, are motivated by self-interest. Given that theory, it is not to say that people are "bad", per se, but rather, if given the opportunity, they will do what benefits them. In this scenario, if everything that is standing between an individual who has waited for god knows how long to get their citizenship is this test (where they somehow find a way to ensure that they pass it), most likely they won't risk the process by failing and having to wait again to retake it or follow other procedures - which will take, again, god knows how long. I personally think that @piotrqc has a point. I've known people who have waited over two decades only to be denied at the end of the process. This idea of having a "fair and timely trial" is being reduced to just a "trial", if that. I have personally been waiting six years. Just because the majority of cases are processed and approved does not mean that the system is not in need of major streamlining measures. Even if applications are refused, even if at the end of this arbitrarily-timed process, applications are accepted and finalized, by the looks of it now, everyone who has started this process is being held hostage with no updates, no clear timeline, and no real information about progression. Of course the Canadian government will proceed with granting citizenship, it is an invaluable service, but that was not the point being made. The idea is that there needs to be a major change in how this entity operates. There have been changes to the sponsorship applications recently and it cut down the processing time and gave clear updates throughout - why can't that be implemented in the citizenship application process? The point of protesting is to bring to light the issues and to show officials how many people are affected and how the current process is impacting their lives. This is a democratic government and protesting is a way to encourage development, not instill fear and anxiety. That said, Canada being a rule-of-law nation does not negate that the law is evolving and adaptable to the needs of its taxpayers; those who ultimately make the law. Anyway, my two cents.
Why are you waiting for 6 YEARS? Do you criminal records or other complex issues? Are you from trouble county or served military? This is so bad ! Did you hired lawyer?
 

Rasha

Hero Member
Apr 26, 2008
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Don’t think there is an easy solution when it comes to online testing where people can’t cheat.
This is ironic though, I know some who completed proctored online test. They used a proctor service, cost 12$ and they were “watched” via camera. Vouloir, c’est pouvoir!!
 
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anandg12

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Jun 26, 2015
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DM to Oath timelines are getting ridiculous too. Some people are waiting since April with DM but no invite to Oath ceremony o_O