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lilililif

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Mar 18, 2021
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Hello every one,

I am currently living abroad with my Canadian Spouse. My PR card is about to be expired in a couple of months. I checked the CIC website and it seems I meet the renewal requirements. But here are a few of my concerns,

1. Can I ask my sis who lives in Canada to help me mail the application?
2. If I need to be in Canada physically, can I travel to Canada, submit the application and leave the country immediately?
3. In the application form, can I write down my sis address as my current residential address in Canada? (I will stay at her house during my travel to Canada). Will it become the fraud info since I am actually a non-resident?
4. I didn't file tax in the past two years coz I have been a non-resident since then. But Notice Of Assessment is one of the required documents. Can I attach an explanation letter w/o submitting NOA?

Please help. Thanks a ton!
 
Would you be arriving by plane? If so, you cannot leave the country immediately.
 
If my PR Card expired for 10 yrs, and card is not renewed, can I still get approved for PRTD? Are there any risks for not renewing the card?
If you meet the RO (or is staying outside to accomodate a Canadian citizen spouse for his/her work), yes your PRTD would be approved.
Same apply for PR card renewal (except you can only apply for renewal inside Canada)
 
Hello every one,

I am currently living abroad with my Canadian Spouse. My PR card is about to be expired in a couple of months. I checked the CIC website and it seems I meet the renewal requirements. But here are a few of my concerns,

1. Can I ask my sis who lives in Canada to help me mail the application?
2. If I need to be in Canada physically, can I travel to Canada, submit the application and leave the country immediately?
3. In the application form, can I write down my sis address as my current residential address in Canada? (I will stay at her house during my travel to Canada). Will it become the fraud info since I am actually a non-resident?
4. I didn't file tax in the past two years coz I have been a non-resident since then. But Notice Of Assessment is one of the required documents. Can I attach an explanation letter w/o submitting NOA?

Please help. Thanks a ton!

1. no you must be in Canada to apply
2. given current covid restrictions you must remain in Canada for 15 days minimum to complete your quarantine,
3. no you can’t declare your sister’s address as you current residential address if you aren’t living there
4. It isn’t a required document. Assume you have verified with CRA that you are a non-resident for tax purposes. Not living in Canada doesn’t mean you aren’t a tax resident
 
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The response by @canuck78 provides a simple direct response to your initial queries. I agree in so far as it goes.

BUT there's a lot of potential complexity swirling beneath the surface here, including risks related to the particular details and contingencies in your situation.

The latter especially looms in regards to the follow-up queries which, it appears, are focused on whether to rely on getting a PR TD, when needed, versus obtaining a new PR card.

Without attempting to address all the issues lurking beneath the surface, I will expand a bit in the vein of 'for-example:'

I am currently living abroad with my Canadian Spouse. My PR card is about to be expired in a couple of months.

If my PR Card expired for 10 yrs, and card is not renewed, can I still get approved for PRTD? Are there any risks for not renewing the card?

Isolated, specific factual circumstances do NOT dictate how things go. How things go depend on the whole package, with due consideration for all those isolated, specific factual details IN THAT PACKAGE (as in 'who you are' including current circumstances and your history, as of when a transaction with Canadian officials is taking place, be that a PR card application, a PoE examination upon arrival, or an application for a PR Travel Document).

That is, efforts to offer relevant and useful information (this is not an appropriate forum for obtaining advice; for advice consult with a properly licensed lawyer) depend on at least a relatively defined and consistent scenario. Sure, addressing some hypothetical tangents regarding future contingencies can illuminate aspects of the process and potential consequences. But responding to questions about the situation in which a PR is abroad in possession of a valid PR card which will soon expire, versus a situation which involves not possessing a valid PR card for ten years, deals with situations virtually worlds apart.

I suppose the disparate situations are probably related. It appears you are currently in possession of a valid PR card, and you anticipate living abroad for the next ten years, and are asking whether ten years from now you will get approved for a PR Travel Document if, as others have suggested, you do not obtain a new PR card but rely on obtaining a PR TD to return to Canada in the future . . . meaning, per your query, ten years from now.

It probably looks like I am deliberately making simple questions complicated. In a way I am. But the problem is a direct answer to just the simple question, as is, often fails to address the plethora of complexities which can underlie simple questions, including the risks and pitfalls lurking beneath the surface. Moreover, the accurate response to many simple questions is "IT DEPENDS . . . it depends on a number of things, additional facts and circumstances, and potentially other factors." And for hypotheticals about the future, "what are the chances the rules get changed?"

For example: "Are there any risks for not renewing the card?"

In general, it is NOT necessary to have a valid PR card. PR status does NOT depend on having a valid PR card. But in practice things are a little more complicated than that.

Even assuming the PR is in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation, there is still no one answer fits all. It still "DEPENDS."

-- For a PR physically present IN Canada, there is NO risk of immigration status problems, but there can be collateral issues like qualifying for health care coverage in a province, especially following any move from one province to another (renewing a health card tends to be easier than applying for one in a new province).​
-- For a PR abroad, the lack of a valid PR card precludes boarding an airline flight headed to Canada, so to return to Canada the PR would need to apply for and obtain a PR Travel Document OR be able to travel via the U.S., so as to apply for entry into Canada at a PoE on the U.S./Canada border. Moreover, for a PR abroad there is some risk relative to status because the law presumes that a PR abroad not in possession of a valid PR card does not have valid PR status; this risk should be fairly low for a PR who is clearly in compliance with the PR Residency Obligation, and who can document this in either an application for a PR Travel Document, or in response to questions posed during a PoE examination when returning to Canada (if, say, the PR is able to travel via the U.S. and seek entry at a land crossing PoE).​
-- -- Additionally, for a PR abroad relying on credit toward complying with the RO based on the accompanying-citizen-spouse credit, in addition to the risk of changes in the law (especially if the Conservatives obtain a majority government in a future election), there are risks in the stuff-happens sense (separations, divorce, accidents or illness resulting in death, and so on), and some potential risks depending on the circumstances (for example, if the absence from Canada is for many years, who actually is accompanying whom may become an issue).​

The thing is, the level of scrutiny relative to matters affecting PR status tend to increase the less direct contact and fewer ties the PR has IN Canada. Key factor in this equation is how long the PR is physically absent from Canada. As long as the law does not change, a PR who is clearly the one who is accompanying the Canadian citizen spouse abroad (not the the other way around), the risks should continue to be low even if the couple remain living together abroad for many years. But the longer a PR remains abroad, the closer the authorities tend to examine the PR, the more significant the burden of proof (always on the PR) tends to be.

As I noted, I will not attempt to drill into all the potential issues underlying the situation you describe. But one of your questions demands a more emphatic response than you have so far been given:
3. In the application form, can I write down my sis address as my current residential address in Canada? (I will stay at her house during my travel to Canada). Will it become the fraud info since I am actually a non-resident?

I am quite sure you knew the answer to this before you asked it. Variations of this question often arise, in this and other contexts (like in regards to citizenship applications). No advanced degrees in jurisprudence necessary to recognize what it means to state facts, in official documents, contrary to what the facts actually are. No sophisticated analysis or interpretation necessary to understand the significance of representing you reside at an address where you do not reside.

What is usually being asked, what this question typically is actually about, is whether or not the individual will get-away-with-it. The answer to this question varies, as the odds will vary considerably. Many do get-away-with-it. Or at least in the short-term they do.

I will say that I never suggest anyone play Russian Roulette, even though the odds are very good it will be, as some here might say (based on the odds), "fine" (odds are five to one the gun goes click, no bullet to the head).

And I can offer a reminder, that given changes to the law made during the time Harper and the Conservatives formed the government, the scope of what misrepresentations can result in the loss of PR status, with no statute of limitations, was expanded. There are cases in which misrepresentations made in a PoE examination many years previous, upon returning to Canada from abroad, have many years later constituted grounds for termination of PR based on misrepresentation. So, at the very least, the caveat "proceed at your peril" applies.

I should add that there is a big difference between playing Russian Roulette and gambling on getting-away-with-it when dealing with immigration or border control authorities. When playing Russian Roulette, hearing the gun go click is the end of it. No worry that sometime in the future somehow the gun will shoot a projectile into your brain. But for a PR making misrepresentations in connection with obtaining entry into Canada, it will never be known for sure he or she got-away-with-it, at least not until he or she dies, since even if it goes OK for that transaction, there is no statute of limitations . . . EVEN if the PR later becomes a Canadian citizen, any misrepresentation made in the path to getting there will ALWAYS be grounds for revoking citizenship, and terminating PR status (well, misrepresentations made in the particular procedures attendant applying for citizenship will only be grounds for revoking citizenship, resulting in the individual reverting to PR status).
 
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If you meet the RO (or is staying outside to accomodate a Canadian citizen spouse for his/her work), yes your PRTD would be approved.
Same apply for PR card renewal (except you can only apply for renewal inside Canada)
Thanks for the information!
 
1. no you must be in Canada to apply
2. given current covid restrictions you must remain in Canada for 15 days minimum to complete your quarantine,
3. no you can’t declare your sister’s address as you current residential address if you aren’t living there
4. It isn’t a required document. Assume you have verified with CRA that you are a non-resident for tax purposes. Not living in Canada doesn’t mean you aren’t a tax resident
Thanks for the reply.
2. I searched the current quarantine rules after entering Canada, it seems travellers can leave Canada during the quarantine period.
4. I checked the terms of non-resident and I meet all the descriptions. No Canadian income sources, no ties. But you are right I should verify with CRA.
 

Really appreciate your deep and logical analysis!

The latter especially looms in regards to the follow-up queries which, it appears, are focused on whether to rely on getting a PR TD, when needed, versus obtaining a new PR card.
Exactly.
I suppose the disparate situations are probably related. It appears you are currently in possession of a valid PR card, and you anticipate living abroad for the next ten years, and are asking whether ten years from now you will get approved for a PR Travel Document if, as others have suggested, you do not obtain a new PR card but rely on obtaining a PR TD to return to Canada in the future . . . meaning, per your query, ten years from now.
Exactly. 10 years is just a hypothesis though, which refers to "a very long period".
-- -- Additionally, for a PR abroad relying on credit toward complying with the RO based on the accompanying-citizen-spouse credit, in addition to the risk of changes in the law (especially if the Conservatives obtain a majority government in a future election), there are risks in the stuff-happens sense (separations, divorce, accidents or illness resulting in death, and so on), and some potential risks depending on the circumstances (for example, if the absence from Canada is for many years, who actually is accompanying whom may become an issue).

The thing is, the level of scrutiny relative to matters affecting PR status tend to increase the less direct contact and fewer ties the PR has IN Canada. Key factor in this equation is how long the PR is physically absent from Canada. As long as the law does not change, a PR who is clearly the one who is accompanying the Canadian citizen spouse abroad (not the the other way around), the risks should continue to be low even if the couple remain living together abroad for many years. But the longer a PR remains abroad, the closer the authorities tend to examine the PR, the more significant the burden of proof (always on the PR) tends to be.
Totally understand there are so many unknown factors that may affect my PR status. But my questions are all based on the current circumstances (i.e. laws, marriage status, etc) remaining the same in the future. I am hoping that If someone experienced the same like I do and they happen to know the measures against my situation, that will be a significant reference to me.
As I noted, I will not attempt to drill into all the potential issues underlying the situation you describe. But one of your questions demands a more emphatic response than you have so far been given:
3. In the application form, can I write down my sis address as my current residential address in Canada? (I will stay at her house during my travel to Canada). Will it become the fraud info since I am actually a non-resident?

I am quite sure you knew the answer to this before you asked it. Variations of this question often arise, in this and other contexts (like in regards to citizenship applications). No advanced degrees in jurisprudence necessary to recognize what it means to state facts, in official documents, contrary to what the facts actually are. No sophisticated analysis or interpretation necessary to understand the significance of representing you reside at an address where you do not reside.
Actually, I am truly not sure about this answer. As I don't see any terms saying that the applicant of PR renewal shall be a resident in Canada. On CIC website it is written "You can only renew your card in Canada. We don’t send PR cards to non-Canadian addresses and we don’t allow third parties to get them for you. " The nuance of this sentence makes me feel like if I am physically in Canada(including short-term travelling), and have a Canadian address for response,then I can apply for PR renewal...
I should add that there is a big difference between playing Russian Roulette and gambling on getting-away-with-it when dealing with immigration or border control authorities. When playing Russian Roulette, hearing the gun go click is the end of it. No worry that sometime in the future somehow the gun will shoot a projectile into your brain. But for a PR making misrepresentations in connection with obtaining entry into Canada, it will never be known for sure he or she got-away-with-it, at least not until he or she dies, since even if it goes OK for that transaction, there is no statute of limitations . . . EVEN if the PR later becomes a Canadian citizen, any misrepresentation made in the path to getting there will ALWAYS be grounds for revoking citizenship, and terminating PR status (well, misrepresentations made in the particular procedures attendant applying for citizenship will only be grounds for revoking citizenship, resulting in the individual reverting to PR status).
I really benefit a lot from your comment. It helps me to reconsider what I suppose to do in the next step. Thanks a million!!!
 
Thanks for the reply.
2. I searched the current quarantine rules after entering Canada, it seems travellers can leave Canada during the quarantine period.
4. I checked the terms of non-resident and I meet all the descriptions. No Canadian income sources, no ties. But you are right I should verify with CRA.

Could you please link where it says PRs can leave Canada during their quarantine period? Will you be travelling by plane?
 
Could you please link where it says PRs can leave Canada during their quarantine period? Will you be travelling by plane?
yes by plane. you are right I've checked again and it says I must use a private vehicle to depart Canada during the quarantine period.No flight boarding allowed.