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Schadenfraude

Member
Aug 5, 2019
10
9
Hello Kwame,

I am so sorry about this. I hope you figure something out soon.

just asking though.. did you ever order Gcms notes?

After 8 months of waiting, I got a refusal letter from IRCC telling me my work experience does not meet the requirements. In the past 10 years, I was a PhD student serving as a Graduate Teaching Assistant for four years under NOC 2131 Civil Engineers. From May 2016 to January 2019, I was working as an Environmental Engineer (Also under NOC 2131 Civil Engineers). The officer fixated on the time I was a graduate student and denied my application based on that, instead on my latest job qualification.
The letter indicates that the decision is FINAL. No request for information or anything. Just a letter after exactly 8 months to refuse the application.
Anybody has such an experience before?

EE: 2nd Jan
CRS Score: 458
ITA: 10th Jan
AOR: 5th Mar
Medical Passed: 18th April
Biometric Passed: 25th April
Background Passed: 25th April
Refused: 7th Nov
 

Nimmy1993

Full Member
Jun 17, 2019
20
3
After 8 months of waiting, I got a refusal letter from IRCC telling me my work experience does not meet the requirements. In the past 10 years, I was a PhD student serving as a Graduate Teaching Assistant for four years under NOC 2131 Civil Engineers. From May 2016 to January 2019, I was working as an Environmental Engineer (Also under NOC 2131 Civil Engineers). The officer fixated on the time I was a graduate student and denied my application based on that, instead on my latest job qualification.
The letter indicates that the decision is FINAL. No request for information or anything. Just a letter after exactly 8 months to refuse the application.
Anybody has such an experience before?

EE: 2nd Jan
CRS Score: 458
ITA: 10th Jan
AOR: 5th Mar
Medical Passed: 18th April
Biometric Passed: 25th April
Background Passed: 25th April
Refused: 7th Nov
You should not give the teaching assistant job under work experience. It should be given under your history. Bcoz you are not supposed to get points for your teaching assistant job. Only give the jobs that you are supposed to get points or only the jobs you want to claim points under the work experience, rest give under your 10 year history. They might have thought that you have claimed for teaching assistant job. Give a good explanation letter. Hire a lawyer
 

JamesRodriguez

Hero Member
Mar 8, 2019
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You should not give the teaching assistant job under work experience. It should be given under your history. Bcoz you are not supposed to get points for your teaching assistant job. Only give the jobs that you are supposed to get points or only the jobs you want to claim points under the work experience, rest give under your 10 year history. They might have thought that you have claimed for teaching assistant job. Give a good explanation letter. Hire a lawyer
Why TA is not counted as work experience ?
Its does .I suppose he has selected wrong NoC for it coz TA has different NOC whereas he selected civil engineers NOC .

If the experience is outside Canada whether a part of study or not ,it is counted .
Even it was mandatory for credits ,and yes must be paid .
 

Nimmy1993

Full Member
Jun 17, 2019
20
3
Why TA is not counted as work experience ?
Its does .I suppose he has selected wrong NoC for it coz TA has different NOC whereas he selected civil engineers NOC .

If the experience is outside Canada whether a part of study or not ,it is counted .
Even it was mandatory for credits ,and yes must be paid .
The work experience when you are on study permit won't count. Even if that Noc is eligible, experience while on student period is not eligible. We are not supposed to give that experience.
Coops also won't count. Don't know whether they count coop experience outside canada. But for sure, they won't count coops or student period experience inside Canada.
 
Last edited:

JamesRodriguez

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The work experience when you are on study permit won't count. Even that Noc is eligible, experience on student time is not eligible. We are not supposed to give that experience
What you are saying is only applicable for Canadian Experience Class not for Federal skilled workers.

Many dentist ,doctors, apprentices counted there internships ,which were mandatory to get a degree certificate,as paid work ( outside Canada )
 

Nimmy1993

Full Member
Jun 17, 2019
20
3

JamesRodriguez

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http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=394&top=29

It won't count. I know people who got rejected for that reason. Even if it is a part time job while on study permit, it won't count
Yes this one is valid only for CEC not FSW .
“ The work experience you can use to apply for the Canadian Experience Class must not have been gained while studying full time on a student permit (for example, experience gained while on a co-op work term).“

where as for FSW nothing is mentioned as such even in the ministerial instructions on the basis of which our eligibility is assessed.
 

Nimmy1993

Full Member
Jun 17, 2019
20
3
Yes this one is valid only for CEC not FSW .
“ The work experience you can use to apply for the Canadian Experience Class must not have been gained while studying full time on a student permit (for example, experience gained while on a co-op work term).“

where as for FSW nothing is mentioned as such even in the ministerial instructions on the basis of which our eligibility is assessed.
Can I count work experience that was part of my education toward the work requirement?
No. Co-op terms and apprenticeships completed before graduating do not count as skilled work experience

It says not as skilled work experience
 

JamesRodriguez

Hero Member
Mar 8, 2019
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Can I count work experience that was part of my education toward the work requirement?
No. Co-op terms and apprenticeships completed before graduating do not count as skilled work experience

It says not as skilled work experience

For FSW, if you see the ministerial instruction or eligibility for FSW, nowhere it is mentioned that we cannot claim points for an internship or apprenticeship. Also, there is no note for the work done while studying or a part of your program. The one which people see in the help center is only for CEC class not for FSW.

For FSW, your points for FSW eligibility and CRS are calculated on the basis of the following requirements-

Source -https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/express-entry/eligibility/federal-skilled-workers.html

You must show that while working in your primary occupation you performed the duties set out in the lead statement of the occupational description in the NOC. This includes all the essential duties and most of the main duties listed.

Your skilled work experience must be:
  • in the same type of job (have the same NOC) as the job you want to use for your immigration application (called your primary occupation)
  • within the last 10 years
  • paid work (This means you must have been paid wages or earned a commission. Volunteer work or unpaid internships don’t count.)
  • at least 1 year of continuous work or 1,560 hours total (30 hours per week). You can meet this in a few different ways:
    • full-time at 1 job: 30 hours/week for 12 months = 1 year full time (1,560 hours)
    • equal amount in part-time: 15 hours/week for 24 months = 1 year full time (1,560 hours)
    • full-time at more than 1 job: 30 hours/week for 12 months at more than 1 job = 1-year full time (1,560 hours)
If you see, it states that unpaid internship doesn't count. This means one can count a paid one.
Also, nothing has been mentioned regarding apprenticeships too or anything like "it won't be counted if it a part of studies "


But for CEC, there is a special note saying -


Source- https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/express-entry/eligibility/canadian-experience-class.html

"Self-employment and work experience gained while you were a full-time student (such as a co-op work term) doesn’t count under this program."

and in the ministerial instruction, the part of program or study only implies for CEC


Source -https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/mandate/policies-operational-instructions-agreements/ministerial-instructions/express-entry-application-management-system.html

it says
"
Clarification — Canadian work experience
(4) Subsections 15(3) to (7) apply in respect of Canadian work experience referred to in subsection (1), with any necessary modifications.


This note is not stated in the foreign work experience 25 (1) of ministerial instructions.





Additionally, the employment requirements in the NOC are not considered for the FSW program. They are only for CEC class. A visa officer must not consider them while assessing FSW applications
 

Nimmy1993

Full Member
Jun 17, 2019
20
3
For FSW, if you see the ministerial instruction or eligibility for FSW, nowhere it is mentioned that we cannot claim points for an internship or apprenticeship. Also, there is no note for the work done while studying or a part of your program. The one which people see in the help center is only for CEC class not for FSW.

For FSW, your points for FSW eligibility and CRS are calculated on the basis of the following requirements-

Source -https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/express-entry/eligibility/federal-skilled-workers.html

You must show that while working in your primary occupation you performed the duties set out in the lead statement of the occupational description in the NOC. This includes all the essential duties and most of the main duties listed.

Your skilled work experience must be:
  • in the same type of job (have the same NOC) as the job you want to use for your immigration application (called your primary occupation)
  • within the last 10 years
  • paid work (This means you must have been paid wages or earned a commission. Volunteer work or unpaid internships don’t count.)
  • at least 1 year of continuous work or 1,560 hours total (30 hours per week). You can meet this in a few different ways:
    • full-time at 1 job: 30 hours/week for 12 months = 1 year full time (1,560 hours)
    • equal amount in part-time: 15 hours/week for 24 months = 1 year full time (1,560 hours)
    • full-time at more than 1 job: 30 hours/week for 12 months at more than 1 job = 1-year full time (1,560 hours)
If you see, it states that unpaid internship doesn't count. This means one can count a paid one.
Also, nothing has been mentioned regarding apprenticeships too or anything like "it won't be counted if it a part of studies "


But for CEC, there is a special note saying -


Source- https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/express-entry/eligibility/canadian-experience-class.html

"Self-employment and work experience gained while you were a full-time student (such as a co-op work term) doesn’t count under this program."

and in the ministerial instruction, the part of program or study only implies for CEC


Source -https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/corporate/mandate/policies-operational-instructions-agreements/ministerial-instructions/express-entry-application-management-system.html

it says
"
Clarification — Canadian work experience
(4) Subsections 15(3) to (7) apply in respect of Canadian work experience referred to in subsection (1), with any necessary modifications.


This note is not stated in the foreign work experience 25 (1) of ministerial instructions.





Additionally, the employment requirements in the NOC are not considered for the FSW program. They are only for CEC class. A visa officer must not consider them while assessing FSW applications
I don't want to argue.
There's no mention this only applies under CEC or that it only applies to Canadian skilled work experience. They do explicitly state co-op doesn't count as skilled work experience, it wouldn't count under FSW either.
And I know people who got rejected for the same reason under FSW.
And there are lots of people in Canada who do unpaid internships after graduation just for experience.
 

JamesRodriguez

Hero Member
Mar 8, 2019
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Y
I don't want to argue.
There's no mention this only applies under CEC or that it only applies to Canadian skilled work experience. They do explicitly state co-op doesn't count as skilled work experience, it wouldn't count under FSW either.
And I know people who got rejected for the same reason under FSW
Its not about arguing .Its about disseminating the correct information.

Even the immigration lawyer asserts the same -

At last , we all here for common goal “PPR”

Good luck .
 

nns14

Champion Member
Feb 10, 2018
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After 8 months of waiting, I got a refusal letter from IRCC telling me my work experience does not meet the requirements. In the past 10 years, I was a PhD student serving as a Graduate Teaching Assistant for four years under NOC 2131 Civil Engineers. From May 2016 to January 2019, I was working as an Environmental Engineer (Also under NOC 2131 Civil Engineers). The officer fixated on the time I was a graduate student and denied my application based on that, instead on my latest job qualification.
The letter indicates that the decision is FINAL. No request for information or anything. Just a letter after exactly 8 months to refuse the application.
Anybody has such an experience before?

EE: 2nd Jan
CRS Score: 458
ITA: 10th Jan
AOR: 5th Mar
Medical Passed: 18th April
Biometric Passed: 25th April
Background Passed: 25th April
Refused: 7th Nov
I am so sorry to hear this but stay strong and don't give up. Do you mind sharing the letter by copy pasting the info here (remove application identification numbers and such) then people can advise you well.

Jan 10 I remember the CRS was 447, so if they did remove the experience while working as Graduate Teaching Assistant then your CRS will fall down the CRS cut off point and it is automatic refusal. You will only have 2 years and few months, so the 3 years maximum points won't be gained.

There could be two reasons why they didn't accept the first job, first could be the wrong NOC choice, I don't know how you selected Civil Engineer NOC for this job, and the second thing is officer may not accept work experience while on fulltime student.

Copy pasting the letter here will help a lot to narrow down the reason of refusal because from your post it is not clear why officer rejected the earlier job experience .