Co-signing for in-law sponsorship

[canuck78]

Oh my bad, I though it was you.. but it is good to know that it is only for welfare. Not that we are counting on the government to help with nursing home costs and such, it is just good to know all that is on the table.

The scenario right now looks perfect, everybody is helping everybody, no real need to assistance is in play, but things could change. That is what is weighting on me, I think.. I just have to sit and think hard on this.

Thanks to everybody, for your input!

Sounds like your relationship is relatively young 5-10 years and sounds like you only apply for PGP once and got picked. Without your MIL it doesn't sound like you would be able to afford your lifestyle if your wife doesn't make LICO alone and you make similar amounts. Yes there are lots of things that actually are not covered by provincial healthcare or they only pay a portion dependent on assets and savings. Mobility aides like walkers, wheelchairs, etc. aren't given to you for free. Need help if your MIL gets dementia. You are unlikely to get support in your home unless you pay for it. Incontinence products are not covered. Dental care. Hearing aids are usually not covered. If you are low income you may get a basic model but you may still need to pay. In Ontario you pay a bed fee in public nursing homes. It is geared to income but you are basically transferring over most of your government pension money plus various get add-ons. I could on and on about the healthcare part. There was an example in the past 6 months on this forum where a son-in-law co-signed for the MIL and discovers he needed to pay the bed cost. Both his wife and her sister and her husband
(who didn't meet LICO) wanted the mother in Canada but the man paying the bill was trying to get her to go home because of the financial strain.

Given your MIL put down the home deposit did you create some form of legal arrangement about what happens if you separate from your wife? I would have wanted a legal document protecting my contribution to the home so the money would go to me or my daughter (no offence). You mentioned your MIL has been visiting you for 2 years. What if her TRV or supervisa is not renewed. Are yo u able to meet your costs if she isn't contributing 4K/month?

 

[john.bc]

Sounds like your relationship is relatively young 5-10 years and sounds like you only apply for PGP once and got picked. Without your MIL it doesn't sound like you would be able to afford your lifestyle if your wife doesn't make LICO alone and you make similar amounts. Yes there are lots of things that actually are not covered by provincial healthcare or they only pay a portion dependent on assets and savings. Mobility aides like walkers, wheelchairs, etc. aren't given to you for free. Need help if your MIL gets dementia. You are unlikely to get support in your home unless you pay for it. Incontinence products are not covered. Dental care. Hearing aids are usually not covered. If you are low income you may get a basic model but you may still need to pay. In Ontario you pay a bed fee in public nursing homes. It is geared to income but you are basically transferring over most of your government pension money plus various get add-ons. I could on and on about the healthcare part. There was an example in the past 6 months on this forum where a son-in-law co-signed for the MIL and discovers he needed to pay the bed cost. Both his wife and her sister and her husband
(who didn't meet LICO) wanted the mother in Canada but the man paying the bill was trying to get her to go home because of the financial strain.

Given your MIL put down the home deposit did you create some form of legal arrangement about what happens if you separate from your wife? I would have wanted a legal document protecting my contribution to the home so the money would go to me or my daughter (no offence). You mentioned your MIL has been visiting you for 2 years. What if her TRV or supervisa is not renewed. Are yo u able to meet your costs if she isn't contributing 4K/month?

My wife tried the lottery for the past couple of years and made it with the 27K this year. We have been together for the past 4 years, married for a little over a year.

If it is both my wife and I, yes - we can pay our monthly expenses but we would be living less comfortably than we currently are, which is not really the end of the world. My wife is making just enough for a family of 4 but I do want more kids, which means I would have to co-sign in order for her to meet eligibility for a family of 5. I make about $10K more than she does so you get the idea. We can afford to live by ourselves but we would not be able to invest a lot in savings and definitely wouldn't be able to put 20% down in a house in BC - not sure where you are from but housing over here is... challenging.
We don't have a pre-nup, no. My wife never asked for one and though my dad suggested I got one, I never got around to it. My MIL just transfers money to my wife's account and she manages it, basically. We have separate accounts but we both have access to each other statements, that is what we figured worked for us after we moved in together.

My MIL has been visiting Canada for the past 6 years I believe, but for the last 3 years she has been coming and going under the Super Visa.
She still has full private medical coverage back home so if anything extreme were to occur, she could fly home and get the needed assistance, it just means that my wife will most likely want to go and stay with her - which also means she would take our daughter with her for God knows how long. My wife has also mentioned that once MIL is eligible for provincial care, it is easy enough to buy private insurance to compliment other needs that might meet us around the corner, though I haven't done much research on that myself.
It is very unlikely my wife would go back home for good - she spent 9 years trying to get her citizenship and will finally become a citizen in a couple weeks, so I don't worry about my daughter being taken away, I just don't like the fact that I might need to go weeks or months without them.

 

[canuck78]

My wife tried the lottery for the past couple of years and made it with the 27K this year. We have been together for the past 4 years, married for a little over a year.

If it is both my wife and I, yes - we can pay our monthly expenses but we would be living less comfortably than we currently are, which is not really the end of the world. My wife is making just enough for a family of 4 but I do want more kids, which means I would have to co-sign in order for her to meet eligibility for a family of 5. I make about $10K more than she does so you get the idea. We can afford to live by ourselves but we would not be able to invest a lot in savings and definitely wouldn't be able to put 20% down in a house in BC - not sure where you are from but housing over here is... challenging.
We don't have a pre-nup, no. My wife never asked for one and though my dad suggested I got one, I never got around to it. My MIL just transfers money to my wife's account and she manages it, basically. We have separate accounts but we both have access to each other statements, that is what we figured worked for us after we moved in together.

My MIL has been visiting Canada for the past 6 years I believe, but for the last 3 years she has been coming and going under the Super Visa.
She still has full private medical coverage back home so if anything extreme were to occur, she could fly home and get the needed assistance, it just means that my wife will most likely want to go and stay with her - which also means she would take our daughter with her for God knows how long. My wife has also mentioned that once MIL is eligible for provincial care, it is easy enough to buy private insurance to compliment other needs that might meet us around the corner, though I haven't done much research on that myself.
It is very unlikely my wife would go back home for good - she spent 9 years trying to get her citizenship and will finally become a citizen in a couple weeks, so I don't worry about my daughter being taken away, I just don't like the fact that I might need to go weeks or months without them.

It is a big commitment after only being together for 4 years. The other option would be to wait until your MIL gets PR before having another child and not co-sign. They are processing apps rather quickly. The private insurance that you can actually buy is pretty useless based on my experience. The dental plans made paying the monthly premiums pointless with such poor coverage you end up paying more with the plans sometimes. Same goes for drug plans if she is under 65. Would suggest that if you're not willing to co-sign you offer to draw up documents making sure your wife and MIL get the 20% deposit back if ever you separate.

 

[john.bc]

It is a big commitment after only being together for 4 years. The other option would be to wait until your MIL gets PR before having another child and not co-sign. They are processing apps rather quickly. The private insurance that you can actually buy is pretty useless based on my experience. The dental plans made paying the monthly premiums pointless with such poor coverage you end up paying more with the plans sometimes. Same goes for drug plans if she is under 65. Would suggest that if you're not willing to co-sign you offer to draw up documents making sure your wife and MIL get the 20% deposit back if ever you separate.

Yeah, this all came up after I suggested getting pregnant again and her "being picked" this year. Waiting until her process goes through before having a second kid is definitely a way out but I am afraid other issues have surfaced after I voiced my feelings on not sponsoring her mom, like another person suggested.

Do you mind sharing your experience with your plan? I assumed it would be something similar to what we get through extended health at work?! My MIL is 57 btw.

 

[canuck78]

Yeah, this all came up after I suggested getting pregnant again and her "being picked" this year. Waiting until her process goes through before having a second kid is definitely a way out but I am afraid other issues have surfaced after I voiced my feelings on not sponsoring her mom, like another person suggested.

Do you mind sharing your experience with your plan? I assumed it would be something similar to what we get through extended health at work?! My MIL is 57 btw.

Private plans are nothing like what you get through work. Usually you are responsible for a all costs until a certain amount and after that partial reimbursement to a point with lots of exclusions. Insurance is a business so they could easily lose money by provide good coverage for a decent monthly price, Google private dental plans. Most small business owners end up paying cash and some dentist may charge you their non-insurance fee. Still extremely expensive. Pay cash for physiology, acupuncture, etc. Yes these are very sensitive topics but important conversations. Would have probably been best to discuss before buying the house and getting married with a good counsellor involved so things didn't get too personal. Lucky your MIL is young but you also have a young child. You should also be discussing childcare with her and what she is prepared to do if anything. The bigger issues come up 15 years from now when you have competing interests. Kids that are teenagers or university students, you are still both working and your mother may be at the point where you are her caregiver.

 

[zardoz]

Yeah, this all came up after I suggested getting pregnant again and her "being picked" this year. Waiting until her process goes through before having a second kid is definitely a way out but I am afraid other issues have surfaced after I voiced my feelings on not sponsoring her mom, like another person suggested.

Do you mind sharing your experience with your plan? I assumed it would be something similar to what we get through extended health at work?! My MIL is 57 btw.

I'm going to be blunt here... If "other issues have surfaced after I voiced my feelings on not sponsoring her mom", you should be very cautious about the 20 years, irrevocable, commitment that you are facing. A lot can happen in a very short time within a marriage, even after things look as if they are fine.
All we can say is "Caveat Emptor"...

 

[john.bc]

Yeah, we did have conversations before getting married but I banked on her not getting picked any time soon. I agree these are important conversations to have and we are having them. To be honest, I don't want to do it but after a lot of talking and a lot of thinking and a child thrown in the mix, it is not a simple "well, I guess this is where it ends then". I am trying to learn more about sponsors responsibilities to be able to make an educated decision, she says I owe her that much.

I will definitely getting on that agreement for assets, for sure!

My wife says she is prepared for "everything" and it has a lot to do with how she was raised. In her culture extended family is just as important as your spouse and kids and I don't see things that way. If my wife had it her way, we would have a bigger house and have everybody move in with us. I do visit my mom once a week but I wouldn't want to live with her. Some cultural differences are part of the issue and so the waiting another year or two might be the better option.

Mobility aides like walkers, wheelchairs, etc. aren't given to you for free. Need help if your MIL gets dementia. You are unlikely to get support in your home unless you pay for it. Incontinence products are not covered. Dental care. Hearing aids are usually not covered. If you are low income you may get a basic model but you may still need to pay.

These are not covered by the province anyway, right? In other words.. these are not costs that could be billed to me by the government?

 

[canuck78]

Yeah, we did have conversations before getting married but I banked on her not getting picked any time soon. I agree these are important conversations to have and we are having them. To be honest, I don't want to do it but after a lot of talking and a lot of thinking and a child thrown in the mix, it is not a simple "well, I guess this is where it ends then". I am trying to learn more about sponsors responsibilities to be able to make an educated decision, she says I owe her that much.

I will definitely getting on that agreement for assets, for sure!

She is prepared for "everything" and it has a lot to do with how she was raised. In her culture extended family is just as important as your spouse and kids and I don't see things that way. If my wife had it her way, we would have a bigger house and have everybody would move in with us. I do visit my mom once a week but I wouldn't want to live with her. Some cultural differences are part of the issue and so the waiting another year or two might be the better option.



These are not covered by the province anyway, right? In other words.. these are not costs that could be billed to me by the government?

If you have health benefits from work or through your pension many of these things will be covered or partially covered. Canada has more like 70% Medicare. People don’t realize things are not covered and you get pretty minimal hours of homecare even if you are quite sick. Same as hospital rooms. No insurance and you can be stuck in ward rooms. Thankfully these are slowly being phased out for infection control. You can always pay for private or semi-private. Same as public retirement homes. You pay less if you share a room. Wish the government prepared all Canadians for old age or chronic illness. Many are under the false impression that they are going to get more care and hospital are anxious to discharge as fast as possible.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Yeah, we did have conversations before getting married but I banked on her not getting picked any time soon. I agree these are important conversations to have and we are having them. To be honest, I don't want to do it but after a lot of talking and a lot of thinking and a child thrown in the mix, it is not a simple "well, I guess this is where it ends then". I am trying to learn more about sponsors responsibilities to be able to make an educated decision, she says I owe her that much.

I will definitely getting on that agreement for assets, for sure!

She is prepared for "everything" and it has a lot to do with how she was raised. In her culture extended family is just as important as your spouse and kids and I don't see things that way. If my wife had it her way, we would have a bigger house and have everybody would move in with us. I do visit my mom once a week but I wouldn't want to live with her. Some cultural differences are part of the issue and so the waiting another year or two might be the better option.



These are not covered by the province anyway, right? In other words.. these are not costs that could be billed to me by the government?

The only thing that can be billed to you is welfare and as I said, she has little chance of qualifying with her own income. There really is little risk to you in co-signing.

 

[canuck78]

The only thing that can be billed to you is welfare and as I said, she has little chance of qualifying with her own income. There really is little risk to you in co-signing.

Disagree that it is only welfare but your MIL is young enough that she will likely not need something like a nursing home.

 

[john.bc]

Disagree that it is only welfare but your MIL is young enough that she will likely not need something like a nursing home.

Do you disagree with @canuck_in_uk because you think the government could bill me for anything other than welfare, or are you trying to say that I should provide more than than her basic necessities?

I do understand (and have no issue with, might I add) that I will have to ensure my MIL has basic needs met and more. My concern is with what I can be legally responsible in the government's eye, after a possible break up. We have a good thing going thus far, everybody is helping each other and so for as long as the scenario doesn't change, there isn't a issue. My concern begins in a situation where my wife and I break up, or she is for any reason (accident, health or death) unable to provide for her mother and now I am on the hook for it. If that makes sense?!

 

[john.bc]

The only thing that can be billed to you is welfare and as I said, she has little chance of qualifying with her own income. There really is little risk to you in co-signing.

Sorry for make you repeat yourself.. I really appreciate your input!

 

[canuck78]

Sorry for make you repeat yourself.. I really appreciate your input!

If it makes you feel better I would also be uncomfortable with sponsoring in-laws. You never know what can happen in life. Have seen too many divorces from couples after a few kids. Someone quoted a post about a poor woman who lost her husband and wasn’t the bread winner and now she’s in a huge predicament with her in-laws. As @canuck_in_uk pointed out you are in an enviable position since your MIL has a good monthly pension, is in good health, would guess speaks good English (pension narrows down country of origin) and she seems relatively self-sufficient if she is travelling back and forth. That said marriage is tough enough without a 3rd person involved

 

[k.h.p.]

I think you need to consider your relationship before making a decision here. If your wife is already upset at you for not showing the same level of commitment to the woman who helped you buy your house and currently loves with you, and that conversation has led to culture clash and awkwardness, a conversation over a post nuptial agreement won't help.

I hate to say it but I think you have more relationship problems than immigration problems here

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Disagree that it is only welfare but your MIL is young enough that she will likely not need something like a nursing home.

What else do you think the government can legally hold OP financially liable for? Here is the definition from IRPA:

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-2002-227/page-30.html#docCont

Undertaking — duration

132 (1) Subject to subsection (2), the sponsor’s undertaking obliges the sponsor to reimburse Her Majesty in right of Canada or a province for every benefit provided as social assistance to or on behalf of the sponsored foreign national and their family members during the period

The government can come after OP for welfare repayments. If the mother-in-law cannot afford a nursing home bed or dental or whatever else you have referred to and OP refuses to pay for it, she will go on welfare to pay for it. OP would then be liable for the welfare.

In this case, she has enough income that she won't likely won't ever qualify for welfare even if OP refuses to pay.