Employed outside Canada by a Canadian company

[balage69]

Dear all,

Myself, my husband and my kids landed in Canada in June 2010 as PR’s. We had to go back to India in Aprill 2011 due to some family commitments we had. Total number of days we spent in Canada is 302.

Recently a friend of us who lives in Canada started a Canadian company, which is mainly an online business. On the friend’s request My husband went to Canada last April and started working for the friends company.
As the company is planning to have its main operational office in India, my husband is scheduled to come back to India on 13.06.2013 to start and run the office. (As a result I and kids will be living with him again.) According to the company’s proposal my husband’s job here will be a full time one and he will be paid in Canadian dollars. Taxes, CPP & EI premiums will be deducted from his salary as he is employed in Canada.

I wonder whether he will be treated as ‘employed outside Canada by a Canadian business’ for the residency requirement. Will his days spend in India from 13.06.2013 onwards be counted for the residency obligation. In the same time will I and kids be treated as “accompanying a permanent resident outside Canada” for the residency requirement.
If the answer is positive, what documents do we need to maintain to support the claim? Please Advice
Thank you in advance.
balage69

 

[scylla]

You will have to meet the following requirements to be able to count the days you spend outside of Canada as residency days for maintaining PR:

OPTION 2. Employment outside Canada

You may count each day you were employed outside Canada if your employment meets the following requirements:

•you are an employee of, or under contract to, a Canadian business or the public service of Canada or of a province or territory and
•as a term of your employment or contract, you are assigned on a full-time basis to:
◦a position outside Canada
◦an affiliated enterprise outside Canada or
◦a client of the Canadian business or the public service outside Canada
For this application, a Canadian business is defined as:

•a corporation that is incorporated under the laws of Canada or of a province and that has an ongoing operation in Canada
•an enterprise that has:
◦an ongoing operation in Canada
◦is capable of generating revenue
◦is carried out in anticipation of profit
◦in which a majority of voting or ownership interests is held by Canadian citizens, permanent residents, or Canadian businesses as defined above or
•an organization or enterprise created by the laws of Canada or a province
Supporting documents:

You must provide a letter signed by an official of the business stating:

•the position and title of the signing official
•the nature of the business and how it fits the description of a Canadian business (see definition above)
•details of your assignment or contract outside Canada such as duration of the assignment; confirmation that you are a full-time employee of the “Canadian business” working abroad on a full-time basis as a term of your employment, or that you are on contract working on a full-time basis abroad as a term of your contract; and a description or copy of the position profile regarding the assignment or contract abroad
•confirmation that the business was not created primarily for the purpose of allowing you to satisfy your residency obligation
You may also include:

•articles of incorporation and business licences
•partnership agreements or corporate annual reports
•corporate Canadian Income Tax Notices of Assessment or financial statements
•copies of the Employee Assignment Agreement or Contract
•copies of any agreements between the Canadian business and the business or client outside Canada concerning your assignment to that client or business
•Pay Statements
•Canadian Income Tax Notice of Assessment
•T4 slips
•Any other evidence that you want to have considered

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/5445ETOC.asp#appendixA

 

[Msafiri]

Balage69,

Sorry the employer set up you detail doesn't seem to cut it...if its a recent set up how will CIC evaluate that its a profitable company? What is the capitalization? Projected turnover? Number of staff? Scope of operation? CIC won't fall for this - it has mom and pop written all over it.

 

[balage69]

Thank you scylla and Msafari.
Can you just explain as to why new and/or small business are not considered in this category. Are there any similar cases where the CIC has not taken the small and/or new business in to consideration. Pls advise.

 

[scylla]

The specific requirements that need to be met are in the information I copy and pasted above from the CIC web site.

These specific requirements were put in place some time ago because too many people were trying to cheat the system and effectively set up companies in Canada for the sole purpose of retaining their PR status while working outside of Canada. In short, the rules are strict because there has been too much abuse of system.

 

[Msafiri]

Thank you scylla and Msafari.
Can you just explain as to why new and/or small business are not considered in this category. Are there any similar cases where the CIC has not taken the small and/or new business in to consideration. Pls advise.

I covered some of the things CIC will look at - its more difficult for a small new start up to meet the requirements...CIC set these up to combat fraud which is mostly by small set ups. Online business are especially risky.

 

[conejopepito]

I am a little bit late on this post, but maybe somebody can answer my question: If I am paid by a Canadian company but I spend time abroad and I am not specifically on an assignment but just working remotely, can I count those days?


Thanks!

 

[scylla]

I am a little bit late on this post, but maybe somebody can answer my question: If I am paid by a Canadian company but I spend time abroad and I am not specifically on an assignment but just working remotely, can I count those days?


Thanks!

No - you cannot. To count the days, you must be relocated to a full time role outside of Canada by your company.

 

[hellgate]

Hi

I have a smilar case. I have just landed to Saskatoon (2 weeks before) but I received a job offer from Canadian Company. It is well known profitable and not new company. They offer me a full time job and they will assign me to the project that takes 2 years. My salary will be CAD and paid to Canadian bank but I will work outside the country. Is it ok to count as residency days while i I am working outside? What do you think?

 

[canuck78]

Hi

I have a smilar case. I have just landed to Saskatoon (2 weeks before) but I received a job offer from Canadian Company. It is well known profitable and not new company. They offer me a full time job and they will assign me to the project that takes 2 years. My salary will be CAD and paid to Canadian bank but I will work outside the country. Is it ok to count as residency days while i I am working outside? What do you think?

In order for your time outside to count you have to have history working at the Canadian location in the country before being transferred temporarily to a contract abroad. Your situation doesn't count.

 

[scylla]

Hi

I have a smilar case. I have just landed to Saskatoon (2 weeks before) but I received a job offer from Canadian Company. It is well known profitable and not new company. They offer me a full time job and they will assign me to the project that takes 2 years. My salary will be CAD and paid to Canadian bank but I will work outside the country. Is it ok to count as residency days while i I am working outside? What do you think?

Agreed with the above. The short answer to your question is no. This will be counted as time outside of Canada since you're being hired to the role directly.

 

[dpenabill]

Hi

I have a smilar case. I have just landed to Saskatoon (2 weeks before) but I received a job offer from Canadian Company. It is well known profitable and not new company. They offer me a full time job and they will assign me to the project that takes 2 years. My salary will be CAD and paid to Canadian bank but I will work outside the country. Is it ok to count as residency days while i I am working outside? What do you think?

I would GUESS that @canuck78 and @scylla are likely correct. Filling in some rather obvious inferences suggests that you are offered a temporary job abroad, rather than a job in Canada which will involve a temporary assignment abroad.

BUT whether or not IRCC will allow a credit for the time abroad for this company depends on the particular details and can be influenced by contextual factors. So it might not be so clear cut.

It is not clear, for example, WHEN you got the job offer relative to landing and being in Canada. It is NOT clear what the terms of the offer are. A big factor, for example, is whether you have a job in CANADA to return to at the end of the project, at the end of this temporary (two year) assignment.

And if you just landed, you do NOT need for this time to be credited toward RO compliance. You will only need this time IF you continue to be abroad beyond the two years. If that is likely, that is if it is indeed likely you will be abroad beyond this project, that suggests you are not taking a job which you will return to Canada to continue doing.

The variables are many. Almost all signs suggest IRCC approaches this credit applying the criteria strictly and NARROWLY, with a lot of emphasis on it being a TEMPORARY assignment, which means being employed in Canada AND THEN being assigned abroad, and that done with the understanding you would return to your JOB in CANADA at the conclusion of the assignment.

And some of the relevant facts and circumstances are open to judgment calls. I do not agree that the PR needs an extensive history of employment in Canada before being assigned abroad. But obviously, if a person is only employed at the company for one or even five days prior to the assignment, an official in IRCC might question whether the person was actually employed in Canada and THEN transferred to the overseas assignment, or was hired to work overseas. AND THERE IS NO WAY TO GET SUCH QUESTIONS ANSWERED AHEAD OF TIME. The PR basically must use his or her best judgment and hope he or she is right.

The irony is that a plan to return after the project helps to make the case it should be credited, but by returning and working in Canada then, you would NOT need credit for that time. In many ways it appears this credit works a lot like this: if you need it, you probably do not qualify. If you qualify, you probably do not need it.

 

[hellgate]

I would GUESS that @canuck78 and @scylla are likely correct. Filling in some rather obvious inferences suggests that you are offered a temporary job abroad, rather than a job in Canada which will involve a temporary assignment abroad.

BUT whether or not IRCC will allow a credit for the time abroad for this company depends on the particular details and can be influenced by contextual factors. So it might not be so clear cut.

It is not clear, for example, WHEN you got the job offer relative to landing and being in Canada. It is NOT clear what the terms of the offer are. A big factor, for example, is whether you have a job in CANADA to return to at the end of the project, at the end of this temporary (two year) assignment.

And if you just landed, you do NOT need for this time to be credited toward RO compliance. You will only need this time IF you continue to be abroad beyond the two years. If that is likely, that is if it is indeed likely you will be abroad beyond this project, that suggests you are not taking a job which you will return to Canada to continue doing.

The variables are many. Almost all signs suggest IRCC approaches this credit applying the criteria strictly and NARROWLY, with a lot of emphasis on it being a TEMPORARY assignment, which means being employed in Canada AND THEN being assigned abroad, and that done with the understanding you would return to your JOB in CANADA at the conclusion of the assignment.

And some of the relevant facts and circumstances are open to judgment calls. I do not agree that the PR needs an extensive history of employment in Canada before being assigned abroad. But obviously, if a person is only employed at the company for one or even five days prior to the assignment, an official in IRCC might question whether the person was actually employed in Canada and THEN transferred to the overseas assignment, or was hired to work overseas. AND THERE IS NO WAY TO GET SUCH QUESTIONS ANSWERED AHEAD OF TIME. The PR basically must use his or her best judgment and hope he or she is right.

The irony is that a plan to return after the project helps to make the case it should be credited, but by returning and working in Canada then, you would NOT need credit for that time. In many ways it appears this credit works a lot like this: if you need it, you probably do not qualify. If you qualify, you probably do not need it.

Thanks all for the kind answers. Actually I would like to accept the offer since I will have a Canadian job experience and after it, I guess, it will be easier to find the job within Canada. However, the expiration date of my PR is 2023 and if i accept this job when i came back to Canada i will not have enough time for RO. In addition I have to be sponsor for my little baby since he has a TRP at the moment. The situation becomes more complicated for me.

Is there any possibility to ask IRCC and get their response before accepting the offer both for sponsoring and RO issue?

 

[Bs65]

To Hellgate, minor point but Canadian Job/work experience is generally considered as being experience gained inside the country and not outside working in a different country even if employed by a Canadian company.

 

[zardoz]

Thanks all for the kind answers. Actually I would like to accept the offer since I will have a Canadian job experience and after it, I guess, it will be easier to find the job within Canada. However, the expiration date of my PR is 2023 and if i accept this job when i came back to Canada i will not have enough time for RO. In addition I have to be sponsor for my little baby since he has a TRP at the moment. The situation becomes more complicated for me.

Is there any possibility to ask IRCC and get their response before accepting the offer both for sponsoring and RO issue?

The sponsor (if you are a PR) for a Family Class application MUST be resident in Canada for the full duration of the sponsorship application. Your proposed employment outside Canada would make you ineligible to sponsor.