Physically present at the marriage ceremony

[Gilbert777]

Hi, everyone. My wife is applying SOWP. I am confused with a problem of ‘physically present at the marriage ceremony’ in the imm5707 form(Family information).
My wife and I was married online through US Government at first as we live in different country and we cannot meet each other due to the COVID-19. But later , I went to the country that my wife live and register our marriage at the household office at her country. Both of us were physically present during the registration.So, I should say ‘Yes, I was physically present at the marriage ceremony’ or answer no. Because our case is complicated, we were having online marriage at first ,but we registered marriage together in front of the officer at her home town.
Thank you!

 

[scylla]

Hi, everyone. My wife is applying SOWP. I am confused with a problem of ‘physically present at the marriage ceremony’ in the imm5707 form(Family information).
My wife and I was married online through US Government at first as we live in different country and we cannot meet each other due to the COVID-19. But later , I went to the country that my wife live and register our marriage at the household office at her country. Both of us were physically present during the registration.So, I should say ‘Yes, I was physically present at the marriage ceremony’ or answer no. Because our case is complicated, we were having online marriage at first ,but we registered marriage together in front of the officer at her home town.
Thank you!

IRCC will not recognize the online marriage through a US government website. The reasons why you did this are irrelevant. It won't be recognized as legal or valid by IRCC.

I can't comment on whether IRCC will accept the registration.

If I wasn in your shoes, I would answer "no" to the question and then provide an LOE to explain the situation and hope the in-person registration is accepted even though the marriage was online. You want to avoid any chance of misrepresentation.

 

[Gilbert777]

Thank you for your reply. In my wife’s country, the couples could just register in the household office and receive the marriage certificate and do not need any ceremony.
My case is that we married online and received the marriage certificate. Then, we registered together in the household office and received another marriage certificate . That makes me confused that can I just only count the registration one as ceremony. But anyway, thanks for the reply.

IRCC will not recognize the online marriage through a US government website. The reasons why you did this are irrelevant. It won't be recognized as legal or valid by IRCC.

I can't comment on whether IRCC will accept the registration.

If I wasn in your shoes, I would answer "no" to the question and then provide an LOE to explain the situation and hope the in-person registration is accepted even though the marriage was online. You want to avoid any chance of misrepresentation.

 

[scylla]

Thank you for your reply. In my wife’s country, the couples could just register in the household office and receive the marriage certificate and do not need any ceremony.
My case is that we married online and received the marriage certificate. Then, we registered together in the household office and received another marriage certificate . That makes me confused that can I just only count the registration one as ceremony. But anyway, thanks for the reply.

I don't know the answer.

 

[Gilbert777]

I don't know the answer.

Thank you so much

 

[Flyingfast]

Your marriage has to meet Canadian standards. Online marriage is not recognized regardless of what your home country is.

 

[Gilbert777]

Your marriage has to meet Canadian standards. Online marriage is not recognized regardless of what your home country is.

Thanks for your reply. But the main point is I have registered the marriage with my wife later in her own town with both physically present in the registration office. And we also received another certificate after registration. I wonder IRCC would deny our marriage because we have online marriage before.

 

[Flyingfast]

Thanks for your reply. But the main point is I have registered the marriage with my wife later in her own town with both physically present in the registration office. And we also received another certificate after registration. I wonder IRCC would deny our marriage because we have online marriage before.

I would choose you were not physically present and include a detailed letter of explanation. As mentioned above, you don't want to receive a miss representation. That will ban you from sponsoring your spouse for 5 years!

 

[Gilbert777]

I would choose you were not physically present and include a detailed letter of explanation. As mentioned above, you don't want to receive a miss representation. That will ban you from sponsoring your spouse for 5 years!

Thank you so much.

 

[Gilbert777]

I wholly agree with @Flyingfast.

I looked into this not all that long ago. Went so far as to obtain a Utah marriage licence, then retreated from that plan. The online marriage would have been valid and recognized in the U.S. and my wife's country, the Philippines, would recognize it as valid. That meant we could register the marriage there and obtain a Philippines Statistics Authority Certificate of Marriage. We could use that to support my wife's PR application in Canada. At first blush, all looked ducky.

But, in the end, we got cold feet. We were still met with clear evidence that Canada immigration would not view the marriage itself as valid. No matter that we registered it together. Such ex post facto conduct could not retroactively validate that which Canada regarded as invalid, ab initio. We could not say were were both present at the marriage ceremony without our fingers crossed behind our backs. So, we waited for the Covid lockdown to end so I could go to the Philippines and get married there, with both present at the same time.

I expect our PR application to fail, but not for want of proper observation of marriage formalities. I my view, you will be taking a big chance on scuppering your application if you give an affirmative answer to the question about being physically present at the marriage ceremony. Of course, with 3 failed TRV applications in the rearview mirror and a likely hopeless PR application in the works, my opinion can hardly be taken as authoritative.

So is that mean Canada won’t accept the registration? I could do nothing to save the problem? I have already married and registered at her own country. Is that mean that she could not go to Canada as spouse forever?
Sorry for my bad English.

 

[Gilbert777]

If you are asking if the IRCC won't accept the registration of your marriage abroad as evidence that you were physically present at the marriage ceremony, if would say it won't accept it.

I have to be guarded in my words since I don't even know what a "SOWP" is and I don't really know what questions are asked. But, I do recall when we applied for my wife's permanent residence with me as sponsor, that question came up about physical presence at the marriage ceremony. Eventually, I came to the view that both of us being physically present when the U.S. marriage registration was tendered to the Philippines Statistics Authority would not allow me to answer "yes" to that question. As I read the comments above, all others here who have answered your question seem to be of the same view.

Have you already submitted your application? Is that why the concern about barred forever (5 years might seem like forever)? If you have not submitted, maybe heed the advice of sending along a letter of explanation. Then you are making full disclosure and the worst that can happen is your application will be rejected and you'll have to resort to Plan B and start over.

If you have already submitted, a course of prudence might be to follow up with a letter of explanation. Again, that should keep your from being seen as having misrepresented anything. Knowing how hard-nosed is the IRCC, I suspect they will send you back to the drawing board. But, ya' never know.

Thank you for your reply.SOWP means spouse open work permit. I have open work permit and I want to sponsor her. What we need to do to get the SOWP is that we can show that our relationship to be truth.
I did not submit the application yet as I am confused with that question in the form and ask the others here. I will answer that question’No’ . Thank you.
But here is another question, what can the people who have online marriage then? If Canada does not recognise it. My wife and I could not marry again…..It seems a deadlock.

 

[scylla]

Thank you for your reply.SOWP means spouse open work permit. I have open work permit and I want to sponsor her. What we need to do to get the SOWP is that we can show that our relationship to be truth.
I did not submit the application yet as I am confused with that question in the form and ask the others here. I will answer that question’No’ . Thank you.
But here is another question, what can the people who have online marriage then? If Canada does not recognise it. My wife and I could not marry again…..It seems a deadlock.

The options are to get remarried in person or to live together for a year continuously to be considered common law.

 

[canuck78]

Thank you for your reply.SOWP means spouse open work permit. I have open work permit and I want to sponsor her. What we need to do to get the SOWP is that we can show that our relationship to be truth.
I did not submit the application yet as I am confused with that question in the form and ask the others here. I will answer that question’No’ . Thank you.
But here is another question, what can the people who have online marriage then? If Canada does not recognise it. My wife and I could not marry again…..It seems a deadlock.

Would also add that your spouse can apply for an SOWP but it isn’t guaranteed. What type of OWP do you have and when does it expire? How did you qualify or it? In cases where spouses have only recently gotten married and they have minimal in person relationship history they can run into challenges getting a permit until they have more time together in a relationship. In your case you were present at the registration of your wedding but were not present at the marriage ceremony which is what is being asked. You can search the forum for other examples that are similar to yours.

 

[armoured]

Hi, everyone. My wife is applying SOWP. I am confused with a problem of ‘physically present at the marriage ceremony’ in the imm5707 form(Family information).
My wife and I was married online through US Government at first as we live in different country and we cannot meet each other due to the COVID-19. But later , I went to the country that my wife live and register our marriage at the household office at her country.

In my wife’s country, the couples could just register in the household office and receive the marriage certificate and do not need any ceremony.
My case is that we married online and received the marriage certificate. Then, we registered together in the household office and received another marriage certificate . That makes me confused that can I just only count the registration one as ceremony.

First, to be clear, I agree with conclusions from others: no, they will not count this as physically present, and whatever registration procedure you did later in a different country doesn't magically make it a physically present ceremony via time travel or whatever.

I'd add: my impression is that IRCC may not pay as much attention to these US-online marriages for US citizens and (permanent) residents. That's only a guess though.

Now a question: what country was this registration procedure, and what is the 'marriage certificate' called? I think there is only a tiny, tiny chance that this marriage certificate would be considered evidence of a distinct marriage (i.e. de novo), but specifics would matter.

Otherwise I believe the options are to carry out a new marriage - after a divorce ideally, but would guess that from IRCC's perspective, they can't object to a new marriage if they consider the first one invalid/null and void/never happened. The problem is that other jurisdictions that consider the first marriage valid may (logically) refuse to carry out a new one. (Leaving aside whether one could simply not mention that and whether there could be any consequences to not doing so - to which the answer is probably not)

Important to note that you've asked this in the family sponsorship forum, and your case is NOT family sponsorship - even fixing this may not get the SOWP approved, and even more so if the timing is sensitive.

 

[canuck78]

First, to be clear, I agree with conclusions from others: no, they will not count this as physically present, and whatever registration procedure you did later in a different country doesn't magically make it a physically present ceremony via time travel or whatever.

I'd add: my impression is that IRCC may not pay as much attention to these US-online marriages for US citizens and (permanent) residents. That's only a guess though.

Now a question: what country was this registration procedure, and what is the 'marriage certificate' called? I think there is only a tiny, tiny chance that this marriage certificate would be considered evidence of a distinct marriage (i.e. de novo), but specifics would matter.

Otherwise I believe the options are to carry out a new marriage - after a divorce ideally, but would guess that from IRCC's perspective, they can't object to a new marriage if they consider the first one invalid/null and void/never happened. The problem is that other jurisdictions that consider the first marriage valid may (logically) refuse to carry out a new one. (Leaving aside whether one could simply not mention that and whether there could be any consequences to not doing so - to which the answer is probably not)

Important to note that you've asked this in the family sponsorship forum, and your case is NOT family sponsorship - even fixing this may not get the SOWP approved, and even more so if the timing is sensitive.

We have seen other US online marriages being denied.