why are people from outside canada favored by CIC than PGWP holders?

[doubleym]

PGWP/ open work permit holders like me, are LMIA exempt...we have been working before this express entry came in... get ur facts straight

I have my facts straight, I am on an IEC open permit so I understand LMIA exemption...

You appear to be confused. Having an LMIA-Exempt open permit does mean you are exempt from needing an LMIA for the extra 600 points, just that you can work for any employer without them needing to obtain an LMIA.

Once again, I'm asking why there needs to be a PGWP-specific draw. They already did a CEC specific one, people just need to wait for the minimum points requirement to fall as the supply of LMIA-supported candidates is cleared out.

If like me you have to return home while waiting for selection then that's just how things go I'm afraid.

 

[aaro27]

I have my facts straight, I am on an IEC open permit so I understand LMIA exemption...

You appear to be confused. Having an LMIA-Exempt open permit does mean you are exempt from needing an LMIA for the extra 600 points, just that you can work for any employer without them needing to obtain an LMIA.

Once again, I'm asking why there needs to be a PGWP-specific draw. They already did a CEC specific one, people just need to wait for the minimum points requirement to fall as the supply of LMIA-supported candidates is cleared out.

If like me you have to return home while waiting for selection then that's just how things go I'm afraid.

I understand that we are LMIA exempt but the score just wont fall...!!! this is just an outburst...

 

[mf4361]

I hope CIC starts having draws exclusively for PGWP holders... and also hope it be soon...

one of my friend will have to leave the country since he's work permit is expiring and we could see no hope for lower cut off any sooner...

Not gonna happen exclusively for a certain kind of permit.

CIC can, however, do CEC-exclusive draws, which most PGWP falls into.

 

[aaro27]

Not gonna happen exclusively for a certain kind of permit.

CIC can, however, do CEC-exclusive draws, which most PGWP falls into.

someway or the other..!!!

 

[AshesNdust]

But you can fake 20 years of experiences from China, and a degree (maybe couple of them) and business records, and many others to CIC. Maybe you can't fake them before a real doctor, but you can fake them to CIC.

I don't see anyone in this board (apart from spams) trying to play tricks CIC on median wage or other requirement. Most of us (including myself) are not entirely clear of LMIA requirements and that's what we are asking. That's what internet forums are for. In fact, that's where most PGWP are struggling with (How can you expect a new engineer graduate, Canadian or otherwise, earns $38/hr? This should be more like wages of licensed engineers with >4 year of work)

If somebody were to ask for ways to fake CIC/ESDC/CRA..., they are not welcomed here.

You can try and fake it, but there's a reason why there are different requirements for different countries when trying to prove your education and experience.
I would agree that some people honestly don't know the requirements and that's fine. However, as I mentioned specific case where people are outright stating that their employers pay them less than a Canadian or deem them easily replacable. Both those case are exactly what the CIC is trying to correct.
As for the PGWP, they shouldn't be hiried for a position that would require someone with 4 or more years of work. So, that's not a good comparison. They should be irrelant to each other. That's the whole point of the CIC, they want to stop employers from hiring practices like that because it harms Canadians. They should be hired for position for their experience level and then they should be getting within close range of the median pay.
Every student permit, visa, temporary work permit I have seen clearly states that it no way gaurantees PR or citizenship. So, no one should expect it. In the past people were able to get it by using a legal loophole that allowed them to applied based on a first come, first served system. Loophole has now been closed.

 

[GARJ]

Not gonna happen exclusively for a certain kind of permit.

CIC can, however, do CEC-exclusive draws, which most PGWP falls into.

A CEC-specific drawing already occurred Feb 27th. 840 CEC applicants were exclusively invited to apply during that round of selection... Mark my word that there will be more program-specific drawings, and It wouldn't surprise me if CEC was the only program with such advantage.

 

[mead]

You can try and fake it, but there's a reason why there are different requirements for different countries when trying to prove your education and experience.
I would agree that some people honestly don't know the requirements and that's fine. However, as I mentioned specific case where people are outright stating that their employers pay them less than a Canadian or deem them easily replacable. Both those case are exactly what the CIC is trying to correct.
As for the PGWP, they shouldn't be hiried for a position that would require someone with 4 or more years of work. So, that's not a good comparison. They should be irrelant to each other. That's the whole point of the CIC, they want to stop employers from hiring practices like that because it harms Canadians. They should be hired for position for their experience level and then they should be getting within close range of the median pay.
Every student permit, visa, temporary work permit I have seen clearly states that it no way gaurantees PR or citizenship. So, no one should expect it. In the past people were able to get it by using a legal loophole that allowed them to applied based on a first come, first served system. Loophole has now been closed.

well u have got something wrong it was not a loophole of first come first server it was the system then as canada needed immigrants. canada still needs immigrants but for the sake of other motives rules were changed(namely votes for conservative party). the new system has loopholes and is not put properly. new system can be improved.
as for job no one will hire a fresh out of school grad if they need 4+ years of experience person. education and experience both should count and not just experience. yes PR is not guaranteed but highly encouraged/promoted.

 

[mf4361]

Don't you know there are people immigrated to Canada using fake documents to gain PR and citizenship. Later got caught, revoked their PR and citizenship and sent home.

Sorry, CIC is indeed comparing juniors like PGWP with intermediate and senior by requiring median wage of a certain NOC in LMIA. In many high-skilled professions, wage are widely spread between junior level and senior level. $38/hr for an professional licensed engineer sounds about right (maybe low in AB/SK) but very high for a junior position.

 

[kateg]

International students who pay fee and tax when staying here are treated worse than a skilled worker with dubious skills and education from who know what countries? Where is the justice?

LMIAs are for jobs where there were no Canadians to hire. A PGWP can take a job from a Canadian.

You can get a PGWP for a low-skill program, in a field with poor prospects and high unemployment. On the other hand, some of the international candidates have amazing credentials.

They want certain types of people. Just being a student doesn't mean you are one of them.

 

[kateg]

NAFTA and IT people never paid 40K a year as tuition and expense as PGWP did!

NAFTA and IT people didn't get a degree, either. PGWP people pay tuition to get a degree. Anything else is a bonus. It's not like the Canadian government gets a cut of that tuition money.

 

[kateg]

Now you are not only competing with Canadians (who have their advantage and time to gain enough experience) but now international candidates who have their home advantage to get their skills needed to get LMIA. How is a recent graduate supposed to compete with advance workers for LMIA??

They aren't. That's the point.

IF they are trying to say they don't need PGWP holders anymore, too many graduates, then just SAY IT, so students can look for their future somewhere else. They want to have their cake (expensive school fees) and eat it too (throw you out after you have paid the school fees). NOPE!!!

that is the LEAST they can do after PGWP holders are paying average of 4 times the fees of citizens. NOT everyone has rich parents to pay their fees for them, some people have to work as laborers during the hot summer to pay fees.

Education is expensive. The government subsidizes education for Canadians, because Canadians will stay in Canada, earn more money for Canada, and pay taxes to Canada.

For an international student, they are a temporary immigrant. Students are required to leave when their education is done, so there's no real reason for Canada to subsidize them. It's not the government of Canada making that money.

Even if the schools charge a bunch more to international students (to make a larger profit), that's going to contribute to reducing the education costs of Canadians. You get a good education, and help pay for the privilege of getting it.

 

[kateg]

I hope CIC starts having draws exclusively for PGWP holders... and also hope it be soon...

one of my friend will have to leave the country since he's work permit is expiring and we could see no hope for lower cut off any sooner...

That's extremely unlikely. They do CEC-only draws, which would include that.

Things will likely get better when the job bank comes out. Right now, to get a LMIA, you have to show that no Canadians were qualified. With the job bank, there will likely be a shift towards also proving nobody on the job bank is qualified either. It should make it easier for CEC people to find jobs. That may not be soon enough for your friend.

 

[mf4361]

That's extremely unlikely. They do CEC-only draws, which would include that.

Things will likely get better when the job bank comes out. Right now, to get a LMIA, you have to show that no Canadians were qualified. With the job bank, there will likely be a shift towards also proving nobody on the job bank is qualified either. It should make it easier for CEC people to find jobs. That may not be soon enough for your friend.

LMIA requirement will be the same as now after job bank kicks in. Job bank is just another monster.ca or workopolis.com

 

[ASky89]

First, you paid tution and received degree. So, Canada owes you nothing. Second, there are a ton of NAFTA people who pay $40k in taxes plus anything they spend.
Money does not buy you PR or citizenship and you should not expect to do so.

Oh really, it wasn't the plan when I was selecting schools. I could've inject my money into UK/US/Australia instead, but I chose Canada due to the milder immigration processes. Yes, at this point I am a victim of the system, but since there is a new line of potential international studets, they might make a different choice.

If I wanted the money to buy me a PR, I would apply for business immigration instead, same amounts if you compare it to 4 years of spendings in Canada.

 

[flag2009]

CEC applicants have essentially been told: "You will get picked, but you gotta go to the back of the line unless you get a LMIA or PN"

By putting CEC at the back of the bus they are essentially putting them 1 step back into the plane to wherever they came from. 3 years is NOT enough to become LMIA qualified in my opinion, now if they extend the PGWP to say 5 to 10 years, then this system may work. That will give PGWP enough time to prove that they can qualify for LMIA. The first year of the 3 years PGWP is wasted looking for a job, then you have another year of work that's if you are lucky to find a good permanent job with starting salary. You are now left with 1 year to get LMIA and magically get your salary up to a 5-10 years veteran so you can quality for LMIA, plus get the PR?

If you have LMIA or PN that means that Canada has deemed you as a requirement to fill an economic gap or need in the country or province, so why would you have to wait 13+ months processing time when you are needed in Canada now? Enter EE: a new method that selects the most skilled applicants first

I don't know why people/government think that because you found a job from outside Canada, you can keep the job, and if you got fired you can get another easily. At the end of the day, just because 1 company accepted an international candidate, does not mean every other company accepts people without Canadian/Western degrees. They would soon find out that they brought in people sitting in unemployment (because they could be hired) while they threw out Canadian trained graduates.