Hi All who can help, especially as I see Leon is very versed in this matters. I hold both USA and Canada PR cards. My Canada PR card is valid until Dec 2016. I have been outside Canada almost immediately since getting my PR card in Dec 2011. I have resided in US, and paid Canada taxes as well during this time. I wanted to stay in USA and apply for citizenship in 2016 March. After that it leaves me just about 6 months before expiration of my Canada PR card to enter Canada. I am aware of the 730 day rule. But my question is if I do not meet this rule and return just 6 months prior to my card expiration, will I be admitted to Canada, and if yes, will my stay in Canada for next 2 years qualify me for renewal of PR card or not? In my situation I can enter also as US PR card holder or US citizen in future, before my card expiration, but again will it have consequences to my PR status, as by that time I will have been outside of Canada for more than 4.5 out of 5 years? I do not want to lose Canadian PR, and to be frank, I prefer Canadian PR or Citizenship more than US ones. So it is critical for me to make a decision before it is not too late, wait for US passport and risk Canadian PR and Passport, or sacrifice US passport, and maintain Canadain PR and get a Passport. Thanks a lot in advance!
What happens if I return to Canada after 4.5 years, just 6 months before PR card
- Thread starter Ex-Soviet
- Start date
When you enter Canada being in breach of the RO (residency obligation), it is possible that you get reported for it if the IO (immigration officer) catches you.
I don't know how they see that you haven't been living in Canada. Some people walk through while others get caught. If you lie about having been in Canada when you weren't and get caught, you could be in all kinds of trouble.
Travelling on your green card may allow you to enter without them realizing that you are a PR. However, if they see from your name and birthday, passport etc. that you are a PR, they will surely be suspicious why you are not entering on your PR card.
If you don't get reported, under the current law, you could stay in Canada for a full two years, meet the RO again and only then apply to renew your PR card.
If you do get reported, you will have to appeal for your PR. You will be allowed to stay in Canada while you wait but the odds of winning the appeal are based on your reasons for not meeting the RO. No good reason = Loss of appeal = Loss of PR and an order to leave. Even if your appeal takes 2 or more years to process, it would not help you meet the RO because time spent after being reported does not count unless you win your appeal.
I don't know how they see that you haven't been living in Canada. Some people walk through while others get caught. If you lie about having been in Canada when you weren't and get caught, you could be in all kinds of trouble.
Travelling on your green card may allow you to enter without them realizing that you are a PR. However, if they see from your name and birthday, passport etc. that you are a PR, they will surely be suspicious why you are not entering on your PR card.
If you don't get reported, under the current law, you could stay in Canada for a full two years, meet the RO again and only then apply to renew your PR card.
If you do get reported, you will have to appeal for your PR. You will be allowed to stay in Canada while you wait but the odds of winning the appeal are based on your reasons for not meeting the RO. No good reason = Loss of appeal = Loss of PR and an order to leave. Even if your appeal takes 2 or more years to process, it would not help you meet the RO because time spent after being reported does not count unless you win your appeal.
Thanks a lot Leon! So my understanding is that the most difficult thing is to get in, once I am in, then I can stay for 2 years and apply for PR card renewal? How do I live with expired PR card, doesn't it limit my everyday life situations that require some type of ID documents?
Also one more question, if it is relevant in this thread, while I was in USA, my second child was born, so I need to sponsor him once in Canada. Question, can he get in Canada with us, provided that he holds US Passport? Also can I sponsor him while unemployed and searching for a job in Canada?
Thanks a lot in advance!
Also one more question, if it is relevant in this thread, while I was in USA, my second child was born, so I need to sponsor him once in Canada. Question, can he get in Canada with us, provided that he holds US Passport? Also can I sponsor him while unemployed and searching for a job in Canada?
Thanks a lot in advance!
This complicates things significantly. You won't be able to sponsor your second child until you have lived in Canada long enough to meet the residency requirement. If you try to sponsor your child sooner, there's a good chance this could create issues for your own PR status since CIC will review your status as part of evaluating you as a sponsor, possibly realize that you don't meet the residency requirement and may move to revoke your status. So after returning to Canada, you'll effectively have to wait two years before you'll be able to submit an application to sponsor your second child for Canadian PR status.Ex-Soviet said:
scylla is absolutely right. Having a 2nd child that is not PR makes it complicated. Even if you manage to get in without being reported, as soon as you apply to sponsor your child, you draw attention to the fact that you don't meet the RO and get yourself reported as a result. Keeping your child in Canada on a TRV for 2 years is not a very feasible idea either. Technically your child is overstaying unless you keep applying to extend which may also cause some questions. You would not have health care for your child so you would have to pay out of pocket + make sure you have emergency and accident insurance or it could get expensive.
As for living in Canada with an expired PR card, as long as you get set up with health card, drivers license etc. before it expires, you shouldn't have too many challenges. There is however an increase in govt. and others asking for a valid PR card as proof of your status even though there is no law in Canada that states you must have one.
Another angle is that nobody has any idea when or if immigration will close this "stay for 2 years and your sins are forgiven" loophole. If you bank on that you will be able to get in and do this and then they change the law and decide that any PR that hasn't had back to back PR cards could lose their PR due to a previous 5 year period where they didn't meet the RO, even if they since managed to get into Canada and stay for more than 2 years, your plan would be shot.
In my opinion, if you still have a possibility of meeting the RO, you should. If you find yourself in the situation that you couldn't and have to work from there, you can try but it's not a failsafe plan to purposely put yourself in breach of the RO and count on loopholes to save your PR after that.
As for living in Canada with an expired PR card, as long as you get set up with health card, drivers license etc. before it expires, you shouldn't have too many challenges. There is however an increase in govt. and others asking for a valid PR card as proof of your status even though there is no law in Canada that states you must have one.
Another angle is that nobody has any idea when or if immigration will close this "stay for 2 years and your sins are forgiven" loophole. If you bank on that you will be able to get in and do this and then they change the law and decide that any PR that hasn't had back to back PR cards could lose their PR due to a previous 5 year period where they didn't meet the RO, even if they since managed to get into Canada and stay for more than 2 years, your plan would be shot.
In my opinion, if you still have a possibility of meeting the RO, you should. If you find yourself in the situation that you couldn't and have to work from there, you can try but it's not a failsafe plan to purposely put yourself in breach of the RO and count on loopholes to save your PR after that.
Thanks a lot Scylla and Leon. I wish I could have someone as versed in immigration issues as you here in USA so that I could address my USA immigration questions too. Just to clarify my inquiry about sponsoring child, I clearly understand that if I miss 730 days requirement and need to sponsor my son, then my chances are very bleak. Therefore my question meant if I come this May, that is more than 2 years prior my PR card expiration, complying with 730 day requirement, can I sponsor my son without being employed and while searching a job? He is a USA citizen, so I think entering Canada will not be issue, but please confirm this as well. So can he enter with us, and can I sponsor him if I am not employed? What are my options if I cannot sponsor him while unemployed?
Thanks a lot!
Orkhan
Thanks a lot!
Orkhan
Yes - you can sponsor your son without being employed (once you have lived in Canada for 2 years and meet the 2 year residency obligation). Since you will still be a PR at the time when you apply to sponsor your son, you will have to be living in Canada in order to do so. Additionally, while there is no minimum income requirement to sponsor your son, you cannot be taking welfare/social assistance to qualify as a sponsor.
Try this forum for your US immigration questions:
http://forums.immigration.com/forum.php
Try this forum for your US immigration questions:
http://forums.immigration.com/forum.php
Because you are not a PR for 5 years yet, you are still considered to meet the RO if it is still possible for you to stay in Canada for 2 years before your first 5 years are up, even if you haven't yet. Therefore, you would be able to sponsor your son if you arrive in Canada while still meeting the RO.
There is no specific income requirement to sponsor a dependent child but you have to show that you and your family will not end up on welfare if you do.
You will have to continue to reside in Canada during the sponsorship processing which can take a several months. If immigration were to find that you are no longer residing in Canada, they would cancel your application.
There is no specific income requirement to sponsor a dependent child but you have to show that you and your family will not end up on welfare if you do.
You will have to continue to reside in Canada during the sponsorship processing which can take a several months. If immigration were to find that you are no longer residing in Canada, they would cancel your application.
Sponsoring USA-born Child
Dear Leon, Scylla and anyone who can shed light, please advise what sponsorship package I should use to sponsor my son born in USA. I am currently living in USA with yet 2,5 years on my Canadian PR card to meet my minimum 2 year obligation. So I plan to move to Canada in June with 2+ years in my PR card left and start sponsoring my child, who will be outside of Canada at that time, but will be in Canada by September/October this year with a USA passport. So I have few questions:
1. As I see PR can only sponsor family members from inside Canada, not outside, right? And in this case, they should remain in Canada for the whole duration of processing. Is this true? And if it is true, can my short one week trip to USA cause cancellation of my sponsorship application, or only serious breach of residence will cause cancellation of sponsorship application?
2. Considering my son will be outside of Canada in June, but will be in Canada by September/October, what makes more sense, to apply for sponsorship through "Family Member Living Outside of Canada" (I guess it is more cumbersome process), or wait for my son to come with USA passport and apply when he is inside through “Family Member Living with me Inside of Canada" application? Are both options available for me or only one is available considering my situation?
3. When I read instruction for sponsoring "Family member living with me Inside Canada" it says they do not require to have legal status in Canada in order to be sponsored. My understanding is that if my son enters with USA passport, he falls under this category, and I can still sponsor him? Is that correct?
4. When I review package and forms for Family Class Sponsorship Living in Canada, the forms and instructions on CIC site talk about spouse and partner, but not about Child. Does it mean child cannot be sponsored through Living Inside Canada process?
5. Last question, it says sponsored person (that is my son) need to provide medical screening results for himself and any family member accompanying or not. How it applies to me, my wife and my elder son, since we are PR of Canada with valid PR cards, but we lived outside Canada for last 2,5 years. So legally we are his family, but practically we are also PRs in Canada and his sponsors, and have undergone those screening prior to becoming PRs. So do we need to submit our results as well?
Thanks a lot for your time and responses in advance!
Sincerely,
Ex-Soviet
Dear Leon, Scylla and anyone who can shed light, please advise what sponsorship package I should use to sponsor my son born in USA. I am currently living in USA with yet 2,5 years on my Canadian PR card to meet my minimum 2 year obligation. So I plan to move to Canada in June with 2+ years in my PR card left and start sponsoring my child, who will be outside of Canada at that time, but will be in Canada by September/October this year with a USA passport. So I have few questions:
1. As I see PR can only sponsor family members from inside Canada, not outside, right? And in this case, they should remain in Canada for the whole duration of processing. Is this true? And if it is true, can my short one week trip to USA cause cancellation of my sponsorship application, or only serious breach of residence will cause cancellation of sponsorship application?
2. Considering my son will be outside of Canada in June, but will be in Canada by September/October, what makes more sense, to apply for sponsorship through "Family Member Living Outside of Canada" (I guess it is more cumbersome process), or wait for my son to come with USA passport and apply when he is inside through “Family Member Living with me Inside of Canada" application? Are both options available for me or only one is available considering my situation?
3. When I read instruction for sponsoring "Family member living with me Inside Canada" it says they do not require to have legal status in Canada in order to be sponsored. My understanding is that if my son enters with USA passport, he falls under this category, and I can still sponsor him? Is that correct?
4. When I review package and forms for Family Class Sponsorship Living in Canada, the forms and instructions on CIC site talk about spouse and partner, but not about Child. Does it mean child cannot be sponsored through Living Inside Canada process?
5. Last question, it says sponsored person (that is my son) need to provide medical screening results for himself and any family member accompanying or not. How it applies to me, my wife and my elder son, since we are PR of Canada with valid PR cards, but we lived outside Canada for last 2,5 years. So legally we are his family, but practically we are also PRs in Canada and his sponsors, and have undergone those screening prior to becoming PRs. So do we need to submit our results as well?
Thanks a lot for your time and responses in advance!
Sincerely,
Ex-Soviet
Re: Sponsoring USA-born Child
2. You can only sponsor a spouse (with/without children) with an inland application so for your son, you would need to apply outside. It does not matter where your son is located for the application. Inland and outland refers to where they are processed where inland is always processed in Canada and outland may be partially processed in Canada and then at a visa office outside Canada. For inland, the applicant must remain in Canada. Outland, they can be anywhere.
3. If your son enters with a US passport, he will have legal status as a visitor so he does not fall into that category. In order to keep his status legal, you would have to apply to extend his visitor status before 6 months have passed since his entry.
4. Yes, that is what it means.
5. No, you don't need to submit your medicals because you are already PR, you are not his dependents and he is the only person being sponsored. He is the only one who needs medicals.
Also make sure you get an emergency/accident insurance for him as he will most likely not be covered by health care until he gets his PR.
1. You must be inside but you are safe if you leave for a week. The danger is if you leave for a long time, immigration may at some point become aware of that and will send you a request to prove that you have been living in Canada since you applied. If you haven't, you can't prove it so you would then risk losing your application.Ex-Soviet said:
2. You can only sponsor a spouse (with/without children) with an inland application so for your son, you would need to apply outside. It does not matter where your son is located for the application. Inland and outland refers to where they are processed where inland is always processed in Canada and outland may be partially processed in Canada and then at a visa office outside Canada. For inland, the applicant must remain in Canada. Outland, they can be anywhere.
3. If your son enters with a US passport, he will have legal status as a visitor so he does not fall into that category. In order to keep his status legal, you would have to apply to extend his visitor status before 6 months have passed since his entry.
4. Yes, that is what it means.
5. No, you don't need to submit your medicals because you are already PR, you are not his dependents and he is the only person being sponsored. He is the only one who needs medicals.
Also make sure you get an emergency/accident insurance for him as he will most likely not be covered by health care until he gets his PR.
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If Canadian PR (and potential Citizenship) is preferable, I would come back to Canada now, while you are not in breach of your RO. Then you can sponsor son right away instead of waiting 2 years before you can sponsor him and then waiting for the entire sponsorship process before he can come to Canada.Ex-Soviet said:
EDIT: After reading more of the thread, it looks like you have decided to do this already. Good idea.
Hi and thanks a lot to all for responses! Highly appreciated. Now I am clear about application packs and will starting documents. If further question arise, will check with you guys, as always you all are very helpful and I am glad that I came across this site quite recently!
A couple of points/ observations if I may:
1. You make no mention of the other parent to the US born child in your thread or what relationship you have. Are they a PR? Will they be sponsored? You will need to their consent on any application for the minor or a court order giving you sole custody.
2. You can apply for inland sponsorship via the Humanitarian & Compassionate process but the outland processing for US Citizens is fast and a record speed for minors (when you meet the RO). H&C process timelines are 30+ months though. Once you have an approval in principal under the H&C route your child can get health coverage, go to school etc. If you were to use this route best to get a visitor record for the minor child at entry into Canada when you should notify the border agent you intend to sponsor your child.
3. Given your timelines for US versus Canadian Citizenship you are best focusing on your US status for now and applying for citizenship. Canada's citizenship laws are changing prior to the next Federal Election (October 2015). By the time you are eligible, apply and get processed it could be very well into the next decade. Take care of what's nearest to achieve and deal with Canada (CIC/CBSA) post the US naturalization application.
4. Watch out when you leave the US prior to getting your citizenship..keep your absences to less than 6 months...also naturalization has some tight physical presence requirements so check this out and make sure you don't breach. CBP makes CIC seem like playschool when it comes to abandonment of PR status.
1. You make no mention of the other parent to the US born child in your thread or what relationship you have. Are they a PR? Will they be sponsored? You will need to their consent on any application for the minor or a court order giving you sole custody.
2. You can apply for inland sponsorship via the Humanitarian & Compassionate process but the outland processing for US Citizens is fast and a record speed for minors (when you meet the RO). H&C process timelines are 30+ months though. Once you have an approval in principal under the H&C route your child can get health coverage, go to school etc. If you were to use this route best to get a visitor record for the minor child at entry into Canada when you should notify the border agent you intend to sponsor your child.
3. Given your timelines for US versus Canadian Citizenship you are best focusing on your US status for now and applying for citizenship. Canada's citizenship laws are changing prior to the next Federal Election (October 2015). By the time you are eligible, apply and get processed it could be very well into the next decade. Take care of what's nearest to achieve and deal with Canada (CIC/CBSA) post the US naturalization application.
4. Watch out when you leave the US prior to getting your citizenship..keep your absences to less than 6 months...also naturalization has some tight physical presence requirements so check this out and make sure you don't breach. CBP makes CIC seem like playschool when it comes to abandonment of PR status.