I'm adressing my question to seniors of this forum, mainly to dpenabill: do you have any idea what happens once status is IP before test invitation? Which steps they do on CIC side? What could be a reason for delayed timeline in this period of some applicants?
What happens between IP and Test invitaion stages?
- Thread starter Mr. Preppy
- Start date
I think that thread is about only background check, is that done after IP? What else they do during that period?
Yes, it's done after IP. Background, criminality checks are what takes the longest to complete, and are the most involved of all checks. They also do eligibility checks to make sure you are eligible for Canadian citizenship. @dpenabill can explain better than I can.
Probably not.
I can offer a much longer and in-depth explanation, which may be more confusing than helpful.
Clarification I: For the vast majority of qualified applicants, and particularly so given that current processing times are far more reasonable than they were in the previous decade, there is nothing much the applicant needs to know about the details in processing, other than the obvious: the application is referred to a local office and the local office schedules the test and interview; next step the applicant sees is a notice for the test and interview. These days there is little or no reason to sit on the edge of one's seat watching for the next step. Way too many participants in this forum appear to be overly obsessed about getting AOR and seeing that their case has IP status. Again, the vast majority of applicants do not need to be concerned about what goes on between IP and the test invitation. The test (or interview) notice is the next step the applicant is involved in (unless there is non-routine processing, which other than FP requests only affects a small percentage of applicants).
Clarification II: Citizenship applications are processed by IRCC not CIC (IRCC replaced CIC in late 2015, that is quite awhile ago).
What does In Process mean; what is the process?
The details are increasingly deemed confidential and thus not divulged to the public. Much of what I know, for example, derives from information available in old Operational Manuals, before CIC migrated to the PDI (Program Delivery Instruction) format (which offers superficial and general information without much detail). Some of what I know derives from some older ATI requests and the voluminous copies of internal memos those generated. And some derives from commentary and explanations in older Gazette entries regarding proposed regulations. Of course I also follow reports by forum participants and those reports help to put the other information into context.
I was hoping the Liberal government would walk back the Harper-era dramatic decline in transparency, but unfortunately IRCC seems well entrenched in keeping most of what it does behind the curtain. So we are likely to know less as time goes on.
One thing we do NOT know now is the sequence of steps taken in CPC-Sydney upon starting a grant citizenship application file. The gap in time between reported AOR date and IP date suggests some of the CPC-Sydney steps are now done prior to the file getting IP status. (Back when I went through the process, AOR and IP were concurrent; they happened at the same time.)
What CPC-Sydney does:
Some of this is obviously before IP status, but I am otherwise not sure what is done in CPC-Sydney before or after IP status; thus this is about what is done before the application is referred to a local office.
For sure CPC-Sydney actions/steps:
-- Opens file by starting a GCMS citizenship application record AFTER an agent has verified the application passes a completeness check and on its face indicates eligibility for citizenship (this is mostly about checking to see that the applicant claims credit for 1095 days presence and has affirmatively checked other requirements, like meeting required compliance with tax filing rules -- this does not mean IRCC has determined that the applicant actually meets the requirements, just that if the information in the application is accurate it appears to show eligibility for citizenship).
-- Does a GCMS background check on the applicant (verifies PR status and other specific information in the applicant's immigration history)
-- Makes referral to RCMP and CSIS for background clearances (criminal and security checks respectively); RCMP and CSIS clearances will go to local office when complete (as far as I can discern, the majority of routinely processed applicants incur no delays due to these clearances; if, however, there is some delay in one or the other, these can be long delays, especially delays due to a CSIS security check involving overseas referrals)
-- Makes the application referral to local office
Additional CPC-Sydney actions/steps, but not sure if this is still how it goes:
-- Triage screening to determine if applicant should be issued pre-test RQ, or RQ-lite
-- Selection for PPQ-QAE (quality assurance physical presence questionnaire); note, it is possible that this is a replacement for the triage pre-test RQ screening
Local Office Processing prior to test:
-- Verifies necessary elements of the file are in the file, including receipt of the clearances from RCMP and CSIS
-- Does another GCMS background check; not sure if this is less thorough or more extensive than the one done at CPC-Sydney (note: at the very least, every time an action is taken on the file, the processing agent taking that action is supposed to do another GCMS background check; at the least this will verify the applicant is still a PR, is not subject to a 44(1) Report for inadmissibility, is not subject to a Removal Order, looks for any FOSS alerts, and verifies that the applicant has no hits in the name-record criminal history databases which, I believe, at the least includes the RCMP name-record database and the U.S. NCIC name-record database)
-- Reviews file in preparation for test and interview; this probably includes revisiting the screening done CPC-Sydney, and
-- -- this may include doing some collateral checks, ranging from verifying address or employment information to collateral research such as Internet search of open sources (Canada411 and LinkedIn are a couple of the most noted open sources sometimes researched, but obviously any presence in social media may be searched to the extent it is open); can include telephone queries, such as to the applicant or to an employer
-- -- may include referrals for information sent to information-sharing partners, such as CBSA or CRA, to verify information in the application
-- -- may include referrals to other government bodies for investigation if such action is deemed appropriate; these referrals typically go to CBSA or the RCMP
-- if all is in order, schedules the applicant for test and interview
Some General Observations:
There are some copies of a File Requirements Checklist floating around on the Internet. This FRC is from 2012 so some modifications to it have for sure been made (subsequent internal memos refer, without detail, to changes to the Triage criteria for example, which is part of the FRC). But it is very likely the general outline continues to be very similar to that version of the FRC.
Non-routine Processing:
Any diversion for non-routine processing opens the door to other actions, referrals, investigations, and so on. FP requests tend to be low-impact, in this regard, for MOST but not all applicants from whom IRCC requests FPs. The purportedly "randomly" issued PPQ-QAE is by far the most extensive and intrusive non-routine process I have yet seen, even more extensive and intrusive than the full-blown RQ.
BUT again, for the vast majority of applicants . . . sure pay attention to when AOR happens, then at least you know the application was accepted and is in the pipeline. Nothing learned by seeing IP status. Odds are good the next step seen will be a notice of when and where to appear for the test and interview, with instructions about what to bring to the interview. No need to fret much if at all in-between AOR and test notice.
Based on @dpenabill review, I have an assumption:
if someone gets test invitation within 10 days after IP, and another within 100 days - it means that second one's case was more complicated in terms of background checks etc? Or there could be some kind of "lost" cases like what we see in AOR where some people waiting their AORs for 3-4 months just because of unlucky queues?
if someone gets test invitation within 10 days after IP, and another within 100 days - it means that second one's case was more complicated in terms of background checks etc? Or there could be some kind of "lost" cases like what we see in AOR where some people waiting their AORs for 3-4 months just because of unlucky queues?
FYI: CIC call center told me a while ago that some applicants get background check before test, while some applicants get tests before background check. I'm not sure whether this is true and what causes the differences. This might explain why some people get IP faster while test slower, the other get test faster while IP slower. Or it could just because of unlucky queues.
@dpenabill do you know if the paper files would be transferred from CPC Sydney to local offices? My GCMS notes showed background checks completed, while paper files still stayed in CPC Sydney. My application status is IP.
Caveat: The forum is overrun with silly wheel-spinning these days. Reminds me of the late fifties, when I was young and growing up absurd, and the older teens were driving in circles and spinning tires in the school parking lot. A lot of gravel flung around, no one going anywhere. Impressed some girls? Probably not much. Not in a positive way.
Many forum participants are watching the days to this or that way, way too intently. IRCC received at least 40,000 applications in October alone. IRCC is a huge bureaucracy, one of Canada's biggest bureaucracies. Bureaucracies are what bureaucracies do. Meaning they are huge slow beasts that munch their way through processes. Deliver truckloads of applications day in and day out for a month, things are going to bog down for some.
It is near impossible to read much at all, if anything, into how long this step takes versus that step, compared to some other individual. And there are bound to be huge differences in how things go in one local office versus another.
The majority of routinely processed applications are probably only touched by a person a very few specific times, and when that processing agent handles the file it is to do particular tasks and those tasks are probably all done, completed, before that processing agent picks up the next file to process.
Sure, as I outlined before, there are decision-steps along the way, some of which can result in IRCC taking some additional action or setting the file aside in a queue for some additional action, and yes that will quite likely add time to when the next step actually happens, adding time to the process overall. BUT again, the vast majority of applications are most likely handled routinely, no extra steps or actions at all. And in the meantime, whether it is simply one queue moving more quickly than another queue for reasons totally unrelated to the individual applicant, or some other extraneous cause for some applications to take a week or three months longer, the timeline is going to vary considerably.
To be frank, I find the obsessive AOR and IP date watching to be rather silly. Sure, watching for AOR is natural enough. Applicants want to be sure the application arrived and is being processed. But those who are trying to draw conclusions based on AOR and IP dates are largely reading withered tea leaves in the dark.
Qualified applicants who followed the instructions, submitted a complete and accurate application, have their primary documents in order (passports, identification, photos, proof of language, and so on), and who continue to live in Canada, HAVE VERY LITTLE IF ANYTHING TO WORRY ABOUT. They only need to watch for IRCC notices, show up with documents when scheduled. and be prepared to take the knowledge of Canada test (unless exempt). No need to check their status any more often than periodically. No need to make help centre calls, let alone do the ATIP request. They can RELAX. A little patience helps. It is, after all, mostly about waiting.
The background checks are done by referral to RCMP and CSIS. There may be some paper involved in that. I do not know. There might not be. But in any event, they are done in parallel, so that processing the application continues in its routine course while the background clearances are processed by RCMP and CSIS.
Obtaining GCMS notes for routinely processed applicants is a virtually USELESS exercise. A waste of taxpayer money. A waste of IRCC resources. Not a very citizen-like thing to do. Anything of real import is not included in the report generated for delivery to applicants. Many of the notations in the report are default entries and do not reveal any information an applicant can actually use. Even for non-routinely processed applications, these reports are mostly useless, offering applicants virtually nothing they can use in making any decisions.
There are exceptions, some occasions when obtaining records from IRCC is warranted. If this is the case, the generic report is still not worth much at all. It is better to do a customized request seeking copies of specific information or documents in addition to the GCMS generated report, and also asking for a copy of the physical file. To do a useful request for copies of documents demands a concerted effort, doing some serious homework, figuring out what to ask for specifically, crafting the request in a way to maximize the chances IRCC will provide the information. But again, that is rarely, rarely something the qualified applicant needs to do.
Again, an attempt draw conclusions at this stage about what is actually happening or what will happen, how long this or that will take, other than anticipating routine processing (assuming qualified applicant who followed instructions and submitted a complete and truthful application) consistent with most other applicants, is largely an effort to read withered tea leaves in the dark.
Not really.
Many forum participants are watching the days to this or that way, way too intently. IRCC received at least 40,000 applications in October alone. IRCC is a huge bureaucracy, one of Canada's biggest bureaucracies. Bureaucracies are what bureaucracies do. Meaning they are huge slow beasts that munch their way through processes. Deliver truckloads of applications day in and day out for a month, things are going to bog down for some.
It is near impossible to read much at all, if anything, into how long this step takes versus that step, compared to some other individual. And there are bound to be huge differences in how things go in one local office versus another.
The majority of routinely processed applications are probably only touched by a person a very few specific times, and when that processing agent handles the file it is to do particular tasks and those tasks are probably all done, completed, before that processing agent picks up the next file to process.
Sure, as I outlined before, there are decision-steps along the way, some of which can result in IRCC taking some additional action or setting the file aside in a queue for some additional action, and yes that will quite likely add time to when the next step actually happens, adding time to the process overall. BUT again, the vast majority of applications are most likely handled routinely, no extra steps or actions at all. And in the meantime, whether it is simply one queue moving more quickly than another queue for reasons totally unrelated to the individual applicant, or some other extraneous cause for some applications to take a week or three months longer, the timeline is going to vary considerably.
To be frank, I find the obsessive AOR and IP date watching to be rather silly. Sure, watching for AOR is natural enough. Applicants want to be sure the application arrived and is being processed. But those who are trying to draw conclusions based on AOR and IP dates are largely reading withered tea leaves in the dark.
Qualified applicants who followed the instructions, submitted a complete and accurate application, have their primary documents in order (passports, identification, photos, proof of language, and so on), and who continue to live in Canada, HAVE VERY LITTLE IF ANYTHING TO WORRY ABOUT. They only need to watch for IRCC notices, show up with documents when scheduled. and be prepared to take the knowledge of Canada test (unless exempt). No need to check their status any more often than periodically. No need to make help centre calls, let alone do the ATIP request. They can RELAX. A little patience helps. It is, after all, mostly about waiting.
I believe the paper file is transferred to the local office. Eventually. When the applicant attends the interview, the interviewer will have the paper file in hand.
The background checks are done by referral to RCMP and CSIS. There may be some paper involved in that. I do not know. There might not be. But in any event, they are done in parallel, so that processing the application continues in its routine course while the background clearances are processed by RCMP and CSIS.
Obtaining GCMS notes for routinely processed applicants is a virtually USELESS exercise. A waste of taxpayer money. A waste of IRCC resources. Not a very citizen-like thing to do. Anything of real import is not included in the report generated for delivery to applicants. Many of the notations in the report are default entries and do not reveal any information an applicant can actually use. Even for non-routinely processed applications, these reports are mostly useless, offering applicants virtually nothing they can use in making any decisions.
There are exceptions, some occasions when obtaining records from IRCC is warranted. If this is the case, the generic report is still not worth much at all. It is better to do a customized request seeking copies of specific information or documents in addition to the GCMS generated report, and also asking for a copy of the physical file. To do a useful request for copies of documents demands a concerted effort, doing some serious homework, figuring out what to ask for specifically, crafting the request in a way to maximize the chances IRCC will provide the information. But again, that is rarely, rarely something the qualified applicant needs to do.
Again, an attempt draw conclusions at this stage about what is actually happening or what will happen, how long this or that will take, other than anticipating routine processing (assuming qualified applicant who followed instructions and submitted a complete and truthful application) consistent with most other applicants, is largely an effort to read withered tea leaves in the dark.
That seems to line up with what we have seen on the forum. For people who get test invite early on, usually wait longer to get DM.
hi depanbill i am new to forum i am following your posts i have question for you .i applied for citizenship in august 2017 and then in october i got fingerprints which i did then in first week of november i got test request which i passed in decemeber my local office is edmonton .actually i was arrested in march 2017 on charged of harassment,intimidation crown proceed summarily that time later on charged are withdrawn in lieu of peace bond which will end on march 2018.then know i got letter from cic they need court documents for those charges what happens,how crown proceed,outcome of charges .i think those charges still showing on my record which already withdrawn thats why they need documents i already apply in the court for documents which can take 6-8 weeks to get.so what you think i should do or my application will be rejected .i already sent them peace bond copy but they need court documents too please help it will be appreciated
These kinds of questions cannot be reliably answered in a forum like this. There are many, many details which can have an impact.
The terms of a peace bond, for example, can vary widely. And they can make a big difference.
If, for example (just one example among various possibilities), the terms of the disposition are conditional on completing the period covered by the peace bond, there is a chance you technically still have the charges pending, and that would be a prohibition which could mean the application is denied . . . meaning you would have to wait until after March to re-apply. BUT I CANNOT SAY that is the situation. It would be better to go to a lawyer. No need to hire a lawyer. You can go for a consultation. Probably cost around $300 to $500. Or just submit the paperwork and see how it goes. If you cannot submit the paperwork within the time the request specified, send a response to IRCC stating you have made a request for the paperwork and you will submit it as soon as you get it. (Note: while I do NOT know, it seems odd to me that it would take so long to get these records . . . I would think a person could go to the court and get them that day or within a few days.)
Obviously, this is something which should have been discussed with a lawyer before applying. And, hopefully you appropriately and truthfully disclosed the charges in the application form. (If not, that could be a bigger problem than the charges themselves, and is a situation in which you should LAWYER-UP sooner rather than later.)