Ways for the family to visit the PR, who does not meet residency obligation

[tom94063]

Hi members
Can I ask for your advice again, pls?
I, my wife and my elder daughter landed for the first time in Apr 2010 and stayed for 3 weeks then left. I came back to Canada last year (Jul 2014), while my family is still in our home country. And at that time, CBSA officer has threatened me that I'd lose PR since I've been away for more 3 years. But he did not report me,I believe. (see my old post at http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/best-way-to-enter-canada-when-not-meeting-residency-obligation-t181417.0.html) And I have been in Canada since then. Our PR cards have already expired in May 2015. I plan to renew my PR card after I complete 2 years (i.e July 2016). And until I get new PR card I am not supposed to leave Canada.

1.Now my wife and my 2 daughters (only the elder one is PR, the younger one is not because she was born after we got PR) who are still in our home country want to visit me in Canada for 2-3 weeks and leave. And we are from the country that requires visa to come to Canada. What are the options for them to visit me when 2 of them are PR (but the PR card already expired) but my younger daughter is not?

2.Currently I have been in Canada for just 1 year in the past 5 years, which means I am still in breach of the residency obligation. I know I need to stay out of CIC's way and I can't apply to sponsor anyone. But if my wife starts contacting Embassy to apply for any visa or whatever it is needed for them visit me here for 2-3 weeks and leave, will that trigger CIC to check my residency obligation? I am worried that the breach of residency obligation will be exposed and I will lose PR. But I really miss my family so much and I can't leave Canada.

Thanks

 

[Msafiri]

1. Non PR child needs a Canadian Temporary Resident Visa.

2. PR wife and PR child need a PRTD which requires an RO review by the visa post and as such they will if not having H&C reasons for the breach get a refusal. Typically Canadian visa posts refuse to issue TRVs to minor dependents of PRs travelling to Canada on the grounds that they are usually not bona fide visitors who will leave Canada. You typically then get a refusal and have to apply for a Temporary Resident Permit which can also be denied so some PRs apply for a TRP for their minor kids from the start instead of wasting money on a TRV application that could be refused.

3. Alternatively if the PR status family members have/ can acquire US visas they can enter via a land border with their landing documents without the need for their PR Cards. At a land POE the RO issue may arise but the border agents have historically been more lenient than the visa posts in not reporting PRs in breach of the RO as you luckily found out!! Non PR child would also require a US visa in addition to the Canadian PRTD for this route.

4. Unless you are examined your current RO breach should not come to light. Family separation is the very harsh usually self inflicted price to be paid for taking risks on the RO.

 

[tom94063]

Msafiri,
Thanks again for the advise.
Probably we'll try the option that they come straight to Canada. So my wife will apply for TRP for herself and PR-kid, as well as TRV for non-PR kid and will see what happens. If it fails, we might have to go via US route. But we still need to get the TRV just for my non-PR kid and of course the US visas for 2. Not sure what the chances are to get TRV for just one small kid as I think the visa post will ask who will accompany my little kid to Canada. If my wife says she is the PR, then they will know that her card has already expired, (will they?)

In fact, they are planning to visit me Apr next year which is 3-4 months away before I complete the 730 day in Canada (in July 2016), when I can apply to renew my PR card. Ideally, if I can get the card in 3-4 months (possible??), I should be the one to fly back and meet them.
But I have doubts because as far as I read other discussions in this forum, some has waited for a year for new PRC. Or some has to go through secondary review.

And I couldn't agree more with you on the comment "Family separation is the very harsh usually self inflicted price to be paid for taking risks on the RO".

To add another concern to that, I feel that the renewal of PRC of ones who manage to return to Canada with RO breach (like me) will raise CIC's suspicion of the presence in Canada and will take long time to process. Maybe I will open another thread asking question about proof of my presence in Canada for my PRC renewal as my passport has got no stamps. No stamps when I left my hometown (as they scanned it). And no stamp when I got in Canada as I used self-serve machine to scan my PR card. How will I prove it? I have hotel receipt for 1st night,rental agreement, job contract, grocery bill, tax return, driver's license. Can that replace the passport stamps??

Thanks

 

[Msafiri]

1. It increasingly seems that a re-sponsorship might be the least problematic option for you.

2. The advantage of a land border crossing is that even if reported you still get entry into Canada. This could be beneficial for a number of reasons including ongoing employment and to an extent helping the 'I am making an effort to reintegrate back into Canada' at an appeal hearing. If you apply for a PRTD and get bounced then you may end up not being able to return to Canada for a lengthy period.

3. Since your PR family members would not have been in Canada at least once in the annual year prior to a potential PRTD application refusal they don't have an automatic right to an in person/ in Canada hearing. This automatic right mandates CIC to issues a PRTD for the PR to appear at a hearing before the IAD. As such they will have to participate in their appeals while overseas. Not only does this present logistical issues such as the need to provide calling cards but it greatly reduces the chance of the IAD assessing the appellants credibility compared to an in person oral appeal hearing.

4. The law mandates CIC to only review the 5 year prior to the PR Card renewal application date. If your 730 days are provable then you will be issued a PR Card. Typically those with employment in a full time job that requires you to show up for say a 40 hour week with a bona fide Canadian employer who follows/respects labour legislation i.e. pays their taxes and pays you via payroll in a format that is traceable/provable so direct deposit/ cheque have straightforward approvals. If you present CIC with a profile of unemployment/ no obvious activity or employment at a mom and pops set up that pays you in cash with no taxes filed then you will have a problem.

5. Some PRs in your position apply with a cushion of days. I recall a trend in the forum where applicants with a prior breach applying at the 730-740 day range under urgent processing seemed to get more scrutiny with increased risk of delayed processing and secondary review. A general suggestion then was to apply with 810+ days on the premise of a 10% buffer on the 730. My opinion for what its worth is that provable 730 days is better than difficult to prove 810+ days! Did you keep your boarding pass for the return trip? You describe having issues with CBSA when you last entered Canada. CBSA likely put a 'RO breach' note on your file to flag up at next entrance so CIC will see this. You can also explore the option of records of movement if your home county issues this.

Good luck

 

[tom94063]

Sorry for long delay.
To answer Msafari's question, Yes I still have the boarding pass on my last return trip to Canada. But unfortunately it does not show year.!!!!. And I will need my wife to get my movement records from my home country and it doesn't seem easy when done outside the country and not by myself. But is that necessary? But I saw other post that when renewing PR card he was asked for movement records too along with color copy of passport. So is everyone renewing the PRC asked for the movement records?

Anyway as my timeplan for PRC renewal, I will meet 2 yr RO exactly in July 2016. But to be safe I will wait till Oct 2016 which is when I will complete 2 years of work experience, as it is traceable through income tax and direct deposit(right?), then I will apply PRC renewal as an urgent case. I will book the flight leaving Canada in Dec 2016 and send the copy of ticket along with my PRC renewal, as I really need to go back to my home country at the end of this year. Maybe I will apply PR sponsorship for my family at the same time. Is that a bad idea?

And another update....
My wife has contacted the visa post in our home town, trying to get TRV to visit me in Canada for a few weeks in Apr. She was told that as she is still PR, she would need to apply for PRTD, which she did. And she was called in for interview. They told her that she can't be issued PRTD (as we expected as she didn't meet RO) and that in order to get TRV, she needs to "renounce" PR first and then apply TRV. The other option they told her is through PR sponsorship, which won't happen in 2 years from now.

So she's considering option (the one and only) to renounce her PR, and she is ok with that, except 2 things.

1.We came across this message on CIC website that if one renouces PR, he/she will no longer be eligible to apply for Canadian citizenship. (http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/5781ETOC.asp)
Does it mean in the future she won't be able to apply for citizenship at all even if I apply PR sponsorship for her the end of this year (once I complete 2 years obligation) and she continues to live in Canada for 4 years, starting next yr?

She asked the officer in visa post about this issue, and they said that I can apply PR sponsorship for her and she can become PR again and that her PR renunciation has nothing to do with her citizenship application in the future.!!!! Now we're confused...

2.In order for to get TRV, she was told that besides her income statement, she should include letter of my employment as well as my T4, to show that I am financially stable here. It looks like they're quite interested in my profile here. Not sure if that will lead to residency obligation investigation which I am currently in breach or not..

Thanks

 

[scylla]

1. If she becomes a PR again and then meets the residency obligation for citizenship - she can certainly apply for citizenship.
2. No - this should not lead to an investigation of you. The only thing that should lead to an investigation of you is if you apply to sponsor her again for PR when you yourself don't meet RO to keep PR.

 

[Rob_TO]

I will book the flight leaving Canada in Dec 2016 and send the copy of ticket along with my PRC renewal, as I really need to go back to my home country at the end of this year. Maybe I will apply PR sponsorship for my family at the same time. Is that a bad idea?

Since you are a PR, you must be living in Canada when you sponsor any family member for PR, and must remain living in Canada during the entire processing up until they get PR. During this time you could only leave for short and temporary vacations. If you leave Canada long term and CIC learns of it, they could cancel the PR app.

Do don't apply for your family's PR, until you're prepared to live in Canada permanently again.

1.We came across this message on CIC website that if one renouces PR, he/she will no longer be eligible to apply for Canadian citizenship. (http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/5781ETOC.asp)
Does it mean in the future she won't be able to apply for citizenship at all even if I apply PR sponsorship for her the end of this year (once I complete 2 years obligation) and she continues to live in Canada for 4 years, starting next yr?

It means she can't qualify for citizenship after she renounces her PR, since you must be a PR to qualify.

But when she gets a new PR if you sponsor her under family class, she will be able to start qualifying for citizenship again. Her 4 years of residency in Canada for citizenship will only start once she gets PR status. Her time here as a visitor will not count.

2.In order for to get TRV, she was told that besides her income statement, she should include letter of my employment as well as my T4, to show that I am financially stable here. It looks like they're quite interested in my profile here. Not sure if that will lead to residency obligation investigation which I am currently in breach or not..

You should prepare for the chance that her TRV, or a TRV for your kid, will be rejected. In this case you'll need to remain separated from your family while you live in Canada during their PR processing (so at least 1+ year).

 

[tom94063]

Thanks, scylla and Rob_TO

 

[kateg]

I know I need to stay out of CIC's way and I can't apply to sponsor anyone. But if my wife starts contacting Embassy to apply for any visa or whatever it is needed for them visit me here for 2-3 weeks and leave, will that trigger CIC to check my residency obligation? I am worried that the breach of residency obligation will be exposed and I will lose PR. But I really miss my family so much and I can't leave Canada.

Technically, the officer can write you up for a report at any time if he believes you breach the R/O. Pragmatically, they generally do it at points of entry and with PR cards/Travel Documents.

It's possible that if they visit that the officer might want to speak to reception (you), and it would come to light then, but it would be extremely unusual. Simply filing the application for a visa won't - CIC treats you separately from them, and your RO is different than theirs. They won't know how many days you have unless you give them the information they need, so it would be difficult for them to investigate you anyway, if that makes sense.

When you fill out a form for a PRTD, you have to give them the information they need to make a determination. When you cross the border, they can ask you for the information they need to make a determination, including passport stamps. When someone else applies for a visa, they lack information on you, and border crossing databases are missing a lot of information.

 

[kateg]

2.In order for to get TRV, she was told that besides her income statement, she should include letter of my employment as well as my T4, to show that I am financially stable here. It looks like they're quite interested in my profile here. Not sure if that will lead to residency obligation investigation which I am currently in breach or not..

That's normal. They are looking for proof of financial support.

If she has a job back home, that gives her a reason to return (which they want). The reason they want your income statement is to show that you are in a position to support her while she is here, so she won't need to work illegally or be a burden.

It's highly unlikely that this will lead to you getting a residency obligation investigation.