Spouse Sponsorship with Proxy Marriage Question, Urgent!! thank you

[nizoo]

I spoke to a lawyer that was able to get my proxy marriage setup the correct way, due to work I cannot go do my marriage certificate by myself so I thought what a better way than giving my dad the power of attorney and sending him back to Lebanon.


The whole process is complete, the only problem is, I called the same lawyer today and he started saying that a new law came out last week that proxy marriages are not acceptable anymore, even if they country of where the marriage was done accepts it as a legal marriage.


My fiance is from Syria by the way and she had to travel to Lebanon to finish the paperwork. I would rather not have to do all that again, it is a dangerous route to take, but we took our chances and she arrived safe, but having to go to Lebanon again and doing the process all over, may put her in danger AGAIN, not to mention myself also because I am also Syrian and if things go wrong and I have to enter Syria, I would be taken to the mandatory army duty. or of course even jail.



my question is, the marriage certificate is dated the 14th of April, 2015 so that's just last week, so when did the law come into effect? (apparently the same lawyer that is telling me about the law doesn't know when it came to effect) and if it came to effect after the 14th, would my marriage still be valid to sponsor my wife?


any advice would be helpful,


thank you

 

[Rob_TO]

What country are you in?

Proxy marriages are acceptable to CIC only if both parties are in countries where proxy marriages are legal.

For example in Canada, proxy marriages are not legal. So if 1 person is in Canada, then they can't get married via proxy no matter what country the other person is in.

 

[nizoo]

What country are you in?

Proxy marriages are acceptable to CIC only if both parties are in countries where proxy marriages are legal.

For example in Canada, proxy marriages are not legal. So if 1 person is in Canada, then they can't get married via proxy no matter what country the other person is in.

Thank you for your response but yeah I am in Canada and I am sure that proxy marriage would of worked fine because i talked to a couple of lawyers and they said that the rules state that it would be possible as long as the country of where the proxy marriage is being done is legal.

We even got the marriage certificate translated and authenticated in the Canadian embassy in Lebanon.

i have even found couple cases here on the forums where they got a positive result with the same situation as me.

But the main concern is about the law that the lawyer mentioned, that just last week, Canada wont be accepting proxy marriages no matter where they were done.

 

[warzo]

So it is crystal clear now that Canada does not accept Proxy marriages and are considered invalid if you are living here.

Thank you for your response but yeah I am in Canada and I am sure that proxy marriage would of worked fine because i talked to a couple of lawyers and they said that the rules state that it would be possible as long as the country of where the proxy marriage is being done is legal.

We even got the marriage certificate translated and authenticated in the Canadian embassy in Lebanon.

i have even found couple cases here on the forums where they got a positive result with the same situation as me.

But the main concern is about the law that the lawyer mentioned, that just last week, Canada wont be accepting proxy marriages no matter where they were done.

 

[nizoo]

So it is crystal clear now that Canada does not accept Proxy marriages and are considered invalid if you are living here.

That is what I am trying to know for sure, because the lawyer was able to tell me that the new law came to effect last week but not which day, if my marriage certificate was done even a day before the new law came to effect, I should still be eligible to apply, at least that is what he said on the phone.


does anybody know or heard anything about this new law?



Thanks.

 

[Rob_TO]

That is what I am trying to know for sure, because the lawyer was able to tell me that the new law came to effect last week but not which day, if my marriage certificate was done even a day before the new law came to effect, I should still be eligible to apply, at least that is what he said on the phone.


does anybody know or heard anything about this new law?



Thanks.

This has always been in the OP manuals for many years now: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/op/op02-eng.pdf
5.30. Recognition of a marriage
If a proxy marriage occurs at a foreign mission in Canada (the proxy is given by the foreign
national and the Canadian resident is present at the mission for the ceremony), the marriage must
meet the legal requirements of Canada (federal and provincial) in order to be legally valid. At this
time, no provinces permit proxy marriages; therefore, these marriages are invalid.

 

[nizoo]

dude I already said, I am 100% sure that what I done would work, unless the law has been changed last week. all I am asking is if there has been any law changes last week or not? I even called CIC n asked.


I have seen your other posts, you just keep copying and pasting your same replays over and over, trust me I get it and I have read them before.



here is one of the topics you commented, and the other guy proved you wrong, because he knew someone that done the same thing, and it was done successfully. I am not trying to be rude, but you are not answering my question, you just keep copying your old posts and pasting them in here.

Maybe , but not necessarily true in all cases.  My friend's husbands sponsorship was approved in half the processing time posted for AD.  

Now the OP would have a problem doing the marriage through the US at this time anyways, as the US embassy in Libya is now closed.  And in order to do a marriage by proxy in the US, the absent person (his wife) would have to go to the US embassy to swear 3 separate declarations in front of a US notary and than deliver the originals to the US for processing.  

This is somewhat an expensive way to do things, and not necessarily the easiest one.  My friend spent $2,000+ (including her flight to Colorado) and the process took 2 months from start to finish.   

 

[Sheps]

Rob_TO quoted the official operating manual.

Rob isn't trying to make life any more difficult for you. He is telling you the facts, and the fact is that since you are IN CANADA because no provinces IN CANADA recognize proxy marriages.

Before you jump on someone, you also have to realize that person did not prove anything, because that person was married by proxy was living in the UNITED STATES not CANADA. He keeps "copying" the same stuff because those op manuals are the official manuals that case processing officers follow. I cannot be 100% sure, but I don't believe they even have discretion in this case.

There is no "new law". That policy manual is decently old, which means the law hasn't changed since 2006.

 

[Rob_TO]

dude I already said, I am 100% sure that what I done would work, unless the law has been changed last week. all I am asking is if there has been any law changes last week or not? I even called CIC n asked.


I have seen your other posts, you just keep copying and pasting your same replays over and over, trust me I get it and I have read them before.



here is one of the topics you commented, and the other guy proved you wrong, because he knew someone that done the same thing, and it was done successfully. I am not trying to be rude, but you are not answering my question, you just keep copying your old posts and pasting them in here.

That person married via proxy through a US state (Colorado) that most likely allows proxy marriages. Not while in Canada as you are.

 

[nizoo]

What does being in Canada have to do with being married through Proxy marriage?

I extended a General power of attorney to my father, which is only valid in Lebanon, it was a LEBANESE power of attorney done by the Lebanese embassy.


what does that have to do with me being in Canada, United States or anywhere else in the world.


I mean it was going to be done the same either way, no matter where I was no?


what are my options now? I cannot go back home, and can't leave work lol, do I just loose my job and go get married and come back live here without a job? how am I going to sponsor her then!?


I am not trying to come at anybody, but the response is not logical nor is he giving any advice, I am not looking for facts, I am looking for advice. I have read the manual and that is thanks to his other responses to other posts, I give him that.

life is not all about facts, i can bet that he didn't even bother reading the whole post.



Thanks anyways guys, this is just really frustrating, it makes me laugh out loud that we live in such an advanced country, yet the process in such things is so hard and time consuming, and a lot of it is straight bs, excuse my language.

 

[Rob_TO]

What does being in Canada have to do with being married through Proxy marriage?

Why did the person in the other thread you posted you thought supported your understanding, have to travel to Colorado to do their proxy marriage?
And others have been rejected with proxy marriages (although don't know final resolution here): http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/-t55544.0.html

There seems to be lots of confusion around the topic even within CIC. Also if your lawyer is stating to you there was a major change to the law recently, but can't give you any bulletin to support it, or any other documentation or anything to back up what he's saying, it sounds like he may be mistaken. If there was a change to law or policy, there would be an official release about it that you could easily search for.

So your only options are probably:
1. Submit the app for PR under proxy marriage and hope CIC accepts it under the basis it was legal in the country your spouse was in
2. Each of you travel to another country to get married
3. Try a conjugal application. Though in this case CIC will not care that your work won't allow you to leave work to get married. That would be considered your personal choice.

 

[OhCanadiana]

I spoke to a lawyer that was able to get my proxy marriage setup the correct way, due to work I cannot go do my marriage certificate by myself so I thought what a better way than giving my dad the power of attorney and sending him back to Lebanon.


The whole process is complete, the only problem is, I called the same lawyer today and he started saying that a new law came out last week that proxy marriages are not acceptable anymore, even if they country of where the marriage was done accepts it as a legal marriage.


My fiance is from Syria by the way and she had to travel to Lebanon to finish the paperwork. I would rather not have to do all that again, it is a dangerous route to take, but we took our chances and she arrived safe, but having to go to Lebanon again and doing the process all over, may put her in danger AGAIN, not to mention myself also because I am also Syrian and if things go wrong and I have to enter Syria, I would be taken to the mandatory army duty. or of course even jail.



my question is, the marriage certificate is dated the 14th of April, 2015 so that's just last week, so when did the law come into effect? (apparently the same lawyer that is telling me about the law doesn't know when it came to effect) and if it came to effect after the 14th, would my marriage still be valid to sponsor my wife?


any advice would be helpful,


thank you

Hi there

There is a proposed amendment that was published in the April 4, 2015 Canadian Gazette. It would:

No longer recognize marriages that were conducted abroad by proxy, telephone, fax, Internet or other similar forms, across all permanent and temporary immigration programs. Include an exemption for members of the Canadian Armed Forces who, due to travel restrictions related to their service, were not physically present at their marriage ceremony and registration.

Note that

For the purpose of the regulatory amendments to be described in later sections of this Regulatory Impact Analysis Statement, a “proxy marriage” is defined as a marriage in which one or both of the participants are not physically present and are represented by another person at the solemnization of the marriage. A telephone, fax, or Internet marriage is a marriage in which one or both of the participants are not physically present at the same location, but participates at the solemnization of the marriage by telephone, fax, Internet, or other means (e.g. Skype). It is possible that someone other than those getting married participates on their behalf as well over the telephone, by fax, Internet or other means.

The Gazette has a lot of additional explanations, including the recognition that it will incur costs for people who may have to travel:

 The analysis of costs assumes that following the introduction of the proposed Regulations, in half of the cases of spouses married by proxy, the spouses would rather choose to marry abroad, or alternately in Canada, by an in-person marriage. For these cases, the sponsoring spouse, who is a Canadian citizen or a permanent resident residing in Canada, would pay transportation costs associated with meeting the foreign national spouse for an in-person marriage outside of Canada, or vice versa. This would include the average cost of return transportation, along with the value of three days of time (approximated by the average wage rate) to travel to the foreign country, have the ceremony performed, and then return to Canada. The total cost of in-person marriages is estimated to be $108,613 per year in nominal 2015 dollars, or a total of $757,171 in present value dollars over 10 years.

Note also that there is a 30-day comment period right now:

Interested persons may make representations concerning the proposed Regulations within 30 days after the date of publication of this notice. All such representations must cite the Canada Gazette, Part I, and the date of publication of this notice, and be addressed to Justine Akman, Director, Social Immigration Policy and Programs, Citizenship and Immigration Canada, 365 Laurier Avenue West, 8th Floor, Ottawa, Ontario K1A 1L1 (fax: 613-941-9323; email: justine.akman   @   cic.gc.ca).

Ottawa, March 26, 2015

http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p1/2015/2015-04-04/html/reg1-eng.php

As of now, the regulations in OP-2 probably still hold. They state that:

5.30. Recognition of a marriage
A marriage that is legally recognized according to the law of the place where it occurred is usually recognized in Canada. A16(1) puts the onus on applicants to prove their marriage is legal where it took place. A marriage, which took place abroad, must be valid both under the laws of the jurisdiction where it took place and under Canadian federal law.
Marriages performed in embassies or consulates must meet the requirements of the host country in which the mission is located.

http://cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/op/op02-eng.pdf

So if your marriage was legal where it occurred (Lebanon?) it should be recognized by CIC for now (until the amendment passes into law, which would be sometime after the comment period ends).

 

[Regina]

A marriage that is legally recognized according to the law of the place where it occurred is usually (means not always)recognized in Canada. A16(1) puts the onus on applicants to prove their marriage is legal where it took place.

A marriage, which took place abroad, must be valid both under the laws of the jurisdiction where it took place and under Canadian federal law Is proxy marriage valid under Canada federal law?

 

[MofC2014]

This has always been in the OP manuals for many years now: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/manuals/op/op02-eng.pdf
5.30. Recognition of a marriage
If a proxy marriage occurs at a foreign mission in Canada (the proxy is given by the foreign
national and the Canadian resident is present at the mission for the ceremony), the marriage must
meet the legal requirements of Canada (federal and provincial) in order to be legally valid. At this
time, no provinces permit proxy marriages; therefore, these marriages are invalid.

Actually your interpretation of the above is not correct. Proxy marriages are valid if they take place in a country where proxy marriages are valid. End of story. The above quote only refers to marriages by proxy performed in a foreign embassy of a country that allows proxy marriages in Canada. Meaning, lets say proxy marriage is legal in Pakistan, therefore the Embassy of Pakistan in Canada could potentially allow for marriages by proxy at their offices (this used to be done a lot, therefore CIC put in the above rule). So what the above states is that as the embassy is in Canada, in one of the provinces in which proxy marriage is not permitted Canada would not recognize these marriages as they were in fact performed on Canadian soil.

 

[MofC2014]

A marriage that is legally recognized according to the law of the place where it occurred is usually (means not always)recognized in Canada. A16(1) puts the onus on applicants to prove their marriage is legal where it took place.

A marriage, which took place abroad, must be valid both under the laws of the jurisdiction where it took place and under Canadian federal law Is proxy marriage valid under Canada federal law?

Yes, proxy marriage is legal under Federal Law as long as it is not a marriage between children/parents, or siblings etc. The Federal Law in Canada is very limited in nature with respect to marriage.

The federal Marriage (Prohibited Degrees) Act [2] prevents the following persons from getting married:

2. (1) Subject to subsection (2), persons related by consanguinity, affinity or adoption are not prohibited from marrying each other by reason only of their relationship.
(2) No person shall marry another person if they are related lineally, or as brother or sister or half-brother or half-sister, including by adoption.