+1(514) 937-9445 or Toll-free (Canada & US) +1 (888) 947-9445

Refugee homecountry visits

beko9812

Member
Jul 3, 2015
13
0
Hi,
I am a pr based on refugee status and went 4 times to my homecountry to see my sick dad. I am genuine refugee on a religious basis (i am christian from a country in middle east) which really got dangerous for religois minorities. I know that i may face problems when renew pr card or apply for citizenship. Any news about people who sucesseded to convince them at time of pr renew or citizenship that they visited their home country for humanity reasons and they took that risk just to see sick family member like in my case?. Thanks
 

tds69us

Hero Member
Nov 22, 2011
293
5
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
beko9812 said:
Hi,
I am a pr based on refugee status and went 4 times to my homecountry to see my sick dad. I am genuine refugee on a religious basis (i am christian from a country in middle east) which really got dangerous for religois minorities. I know that i may face problems when renew pr card or apply for citizenship. Any news about people who sucesseded to convince them at time of pr renew or citizenship that they visited their home country for humanity reasons and they took that risk just to see sick family member like in my case?. Thanks
If you are too concerned about your safety and your sick dad, why didn't you sponsor him to come here? Or is it safe to just visit him there every year?
 

screech339

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2013
7,877
549
Category........
Visa Office......
Vegreville
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
14-08-2012
AOR Received.
20-11-2012
Med's Done....
18-07-2012
Interview........
17-06-2013
LANDED..........
17-06-2013
beko9812 said:
Hi,
I am a pr based on refugee status and went 4 times to my homecountry to see my sick dad. I am genuine refugee on a religious basis (i am christian from a country in middle east) which really got dangerous for religois minorities. I know that i may face problems when renew pr card or apply for citizenship. Any news about people who sucesseded to convince them at time of pr renew or citizenship that they visited their home country for humanity reasons and they took that risk just to see sick family member like in my case?. Thanks
You do realize that you are jeopardizing your own PR status by returning to your home country that you are fleeing from. If you can return to your home country, it would mean you are, technically, no longer a refugee.

CIC could even revoke your PR status once they sees you have returned to your home country, not once but 4 times. Just because you apply for citizenship doesn't mean you are safe from losing PR. You are PR until you say your oath.
 

beko9812

Member
Jul 3, 2015
13
0
screech339 said:
You do realize that you are jeopardizing your own PR status by returning to your home country that you are fleeing from. If you can return to your home country, it would mean you are, technically, no longer a refugee.
Thank you. Did you hear about people who successeded to get citizenship despite that they visited homecountry during pr period?. Thanks again
 

screech339

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2013
7,877
549
Category........
Visa Office......
Vegreville
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
14-08-2012
AOR Received.
20-11-2012
Med's Done....
18-07-2012
Interview........
17-06-2013
LANDED..........
17-06-2013
beko9812 said:
Thank you. Did you hear about people who successeded to get citizenship despite that they visited homecountry during pr period?. Thanks again
That may be before the crackdown on refugee PRs going back to their home country.

Good luck in your citizenship application. Just hope that you won't be one of the unlucky ones.
 

beko9812

Member
Jul 3, 2015
13
0
screech339 said:
That may be before the crackdown on refugee PRs going back to their home country.

Good luck in your citizenship application. Just hope that you won't be one of the unlucky ones.
I meant cases that succeeded to get citizenship after the crackdown!
 

ScubaC

Hero Member
Jun 21, 2012
298
19
123
Toronto
Category........
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
beko9812 said:
Hi,
I am a pr based on refugee status and went 4 times to my homecountry to see my sick dad. I am genuine refugee on a religious basis (i am christian from a country in middle east) which really got dangerous for religois minorities. I know that i may face problems when renew pr card or apply for citizenship. Any news about people who sucesseded to convince them at time of pr renew or citizenship that they visited their home country for humanity reasons and they took that risk just to see sick family member like in my case?. Thanks
I am also a refugee from the middle east. Sorry man, bad decision. I'm not sure CIC will believe you are still a refugee. Better ask a lawyer. You did the number one mistake refugees make. Anyway, I'm sorry but how can you return to a country you "fled" from?? I know I certainly can't! I'm not upset about it either. I left there fully knowing there was no going back and good riddance! Especially in the middle east where everyone knows everyone, I'm wondering how you managed to get back and still be alive??

Get a lawyer, good luck
 

PMM

VIP Member
Jun 30, 2005
25,494
1,948
Hi


beko9812 said:
Hi,
I am a pr based on refugee status and went 4 times to my homecountry to see my sick dad. I am genuine refugee on a religious basis (i am christian from a country in middle east) which really got dangerous for religois minorities. I know that i may face problems when renew pr card or apply for citizenship. Any news about people who sucesseded to convince them at time of pr renew or citizenship that they visited their home country for humanity reasons and they took that risk just to see sick family member like in my case?. Thanks
1. You have already put your PR status in jeopardy. I suggest that you read the following section of the Immigration Act.

Rejection

108. (1) A claim for refugee protection shall be rejected, and a person is not a Convention refugee or a person in need of protection, in any of the following circumstances:

(a) the person has voluntarily reavailed themself of the protection of their country of nationality;

(b) the person has voluntarily reacquired their nationality;

(c) the person has acquired a new nationality and enjoys the protection of the country of that new nationality;

(d) the person has voluntarily become re-established in the country that the person left or remained outside of and in respect of which the person claimed refugee protection in Canada; or

(e) the reasons for which the person sought refugee protection have ceased to exist.
Marginal note:Cessation of refugee protection

(2) On application by the Minister, the Refugee Protection Division may determine that refugee protection referred to in subsection 95(1) has ceased for any of the reasons described in subsection (1).
Marginal note:Effect of decision

(3) If the application is allowed, the claim of the person is deemed to be rejected.
Marginal note:Exception

(4) Paragraph (1)(e) does not apply to a person who establishes that there are compelling reasons arising out of previous persecution, torture, treatment or punishment for refusing to avail themselves of the protection of the country which they left, or outside of which they remained, due to such previous persecution, torture, treatment or punishment.

Here are a couple of Federal Court decisions

a. http://decisions.fct-cf.gc.ca/fc-cf/decisions/en/item/100670/index.do?r=AAAAAQAJcmVhdmFpbGVkAQ
b. http://decisions.fct-cf.gc.ca/fc-cf/decisions/en/item/108994/index.do?r=AAAAAQAJcmVhdmFpbGVkAQ
 

beko9812

Member
Jul 3, 2015
13
0
Thank you for all these details. Did you hear about similar cases where federal court decisions were positive even a refugee with pr status went back to homecountry before getting canadian citizenship?. Have a good weekend..
 

screech339

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2013
7,877
549
Category........
Visa Office......
Vegreville
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
14-08-2012
AOR Received.
20-11-2012
Med's Done....
18-07-2012
Interview........
17-06-2013
LANDED..........
17-06-2013
beko9812 said:
Thank you for all these details. Did you hear about similar cases where federal court decisions were positive even a refugee with pr status went back to homecountry before getting canadian citizenship?. Have a good weekend..
Did you hear about similar cases where refugee PR lost their PR status because they returned to their home country? Have a good weekend...
 

beko9812

Member
Jul 3, 2015
13
0
screech339 said:
Did you hear about similar cases where refugee PR lost their PR status because they returned to their home country? Have a good weekend...
Sorry i think i misunderstood the 2 federal decisions above. Were both these guys deported or no?. With the new refugee law changes on 2014, what is really happening to refugee pr who return to home country before getting citizenship. Do they deport all these cases from canada or there is a good chance to get citizenship and stay?
 

PMM

VIP Member
Jun 30, 2005
25,494
1,948
Hi


beko9812 said:
Sorry i think i misunderstood the 2 federal decisions above. Were both these guys deported or no?. With the new refugee law changes on 2014, what is really happening to refugee pr who return to home country before getting citizenship. Do they deport all these cases from canada or there is a good chance to get citizenship and stay?
1. Yes, their removal orders were upheld, whether have been removed or not as yet I don't know, as CBSA doesn't report the names of persons deported.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,294
3,059
Upfront: these are complicated issues, many aspects of the law are relatively new and not yet fully interpreted by the Courts. In fact, in both the cases linked above by PMM, the Justices certified questions for further review.

IRPA Section 108 termination of refugee status has only applied to Permanent Residents since the 2012 amendment to IRPA Section 46, which added subsection 46(1)(c.1) pursuant to which a final determination that refugee status has ceased (per section 108) terminates PR status.

It is unclear to what extent the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness is pursuing cases against Permanent Residents who have made brief trips to the country from which they initially sought protection. More than a few, yes, but how many are targeted, who, and why (beyond just the technicalities of who the Minister can take such action against) is not at all clear.

I suggest consulting with an immigration lawyer SOONER rather than later.

Again, these are complicated issues. The law is far from settled. There is no automatic termination of refugee status arising from a visit to one's home country, but rather the Public Safety Minister (could also be the Minister of CIC) needs to take affirmative action to bring an application and also bears the burden of proof.

On the other hand, it appears that it is not likely there are H&C grounds excusing actions rising to the level of having "reavailed" oneself "of the protection of their country of nationality." (H&C grounds could still be raised if a Removal Order or Departure Order is sought, once status is lost, but that is a separate matter.)

But it warrants emphasizing again that this is new law, with lots of wrinkles, with a lot of questions of interpretation and application yet to be sorted out by the Refugee Protection Board and the Federal Courts.

As the two cases referenced by PMM reflect: very different outcomes depending on the particular circumstances and facts in the case.

Which leads to the observation that there was NO Removal Order (as yet anyway) in at least one of these cases.

In particular, actually, in the Najeeb Bashir case, there was NO Removal Order, and the Minister's application to terminate Bashir's refugee status was denied by the Board and in turn that was upheld by Justice Bédard, although she did certify a question to be considered in a further appeal to a higher court.

Thus, as of the decision (linked above and by PMM), Bashir's status in Canada was still intact and valid. (Bashir was not a Permanent Resident, and indeed it was apparently his application for PR status which triggered the Ministers' action to terminate protected status.)

BUT it is of little comfort for the OP, since Bashir's case did not involve any visits to his home country, but merely the renewal of his passport.


The other case linked by PMM above is the opposite, and perhaps closer to the OP's situation.

Obaildullah Siddiqui also obtained a passport from his home country but also traveled to his home country three times, as well as using the passport to travel to other countries. The Ministers made an application to terminate his status as a Convention refugee, and the Refugee Protection Board ruled against Siddiqui. The crux of Siddiqui's appeal was that Section 108 of IRPA only applies to Convention refugees, of which he was not one (rather he was granted protected person status based on H&C grounds). Justice S. Noël denied the appeal, sided with the government, but also certified a question for further appeal.


In any event, for the OP the more practical question may be what sort of things are likely to trigger the Ministers (either of them) to initiate an application to terminate protected status.

In the Najeeb Bashir case, apparently it was Bashir's application for PR status which triggered the inquiry and filing of an application to terminate his protected status. In the Siddiqui it is not clear what triggered the Ministers to pursue termination of Siddiqui's protected status. I do not have the case name or link handy, but I recall seeing another case in which it was clear that it was attendant inquiries related to the individual's application for citizenship which triggered the Ministers to pursue termination of protected status.

I suspect that it is similar to the situation for those who are in breach of the PR Residency Obligation: it is when they are being interviewed at a POE or upon inquiry related to an application made by the PR (for PR card or citizenship or to sponsor a family member), that are the most common triggers.

Mostly, this is something I would go see a competent immigration lawyer about.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,294
3,059
Additionally, a key factor may (again, a lot about how the law works is still not settled) be whether the OP was using a Travel Document issued by Canada or had obtained a passport from the home country.

The issue, after all, is whether the "person has voluntarily reavailed themselves of the protection of their country of nationality." Brief visits may not rise to the level of having reavailed oneself of the country's protection if one is not using a passport from that country.

But still, this is a situation calling for the advice of a lawyer.
 

PMM

VIP Member
Jun 30, 2005
25,494
1,948
Hi

dpenabill said:
Upfront: these are complicated issues, many aspects of the law are relatively new and not yet fully interpreted by the Courts. In fact, in both the cases linked above by PMM, the Justices certified questions for further review.

IRPA Section 108 termination of refugee status has only applied to Permanent Residents since the 2012 amendment to IRPA Section 46, which added subsection 46(1)(c.1) pursuant to which a final determination that refugee status has ceased (per section 108) terminates PR status.

It is unclear to what extent the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness is pursuing cases against Permanent Residents who have made brief trips to the country from which they initially sought protection. More than a few, yes, but how many are targeted, who, and why (beyond just the technicalities of who the Minister can take such action against) is not at all clear.

I suggest consulting with an immigration lawyer SOONER rather than later.

Again, these are complicated issues. The law is far from settled. There is no automatic termination of refugee status arising from a visit to one's home country, but rather the Public Safety Minister (could also be the Minister of CIC) needs to take affirmative action to bring an application and also bears the burden of proof.

On the other hand, it appears that it is not likely there are H&C grounds excusing actions rising to the level of having "reavailed" oneself "of the protection of their country of nationality." (H&C grounds could still be raised if a Removal Order or Departure Order is sought, once status is lost, but that is a separate matter.)

But it warrants emphasizing again that this is new law, with lots of wrinkles, with a lot of questions of interpretation and application yet to be sorted out by the Refugee Protection Board and the Federal Courts.

As the two cases referenced by PMM reflect: very different outcomes depending on the particular circumstances and facts in the case.

Which leads to the observation that there was NO Removal Order (as yet anyway) in at least one of these cases.

In particular, actually, in the Najeeb Bashir case, there was NO Removal Order, and the Minister's application to terminate Bashir's refugee status was denied by the Board and in turn that was upheld by Justice Bédard, although she did certify a question to be considered in a further appeal to a higher court.

Thus, as of the decision (linked above and by PMM), Bashir's status in Canada was still intact and valid. (Bashir was not a Permanent Resident, and indeed it was apparently his application for PR status which triggered the Ministers' action to terminate protected status.)

BUT it is of little comfort for the OP, since Bashir's case did not involve any visits to his home country, but merely the renewal of his passport.


The other case linked by PMM above is the opposite, and perhaps closer to the OP's situation.

Obaildullah Siddiqui also obtained a passport from his home country but also traveled to his home country three times, as well as using the passport to travel to other countries. The Ministers made an application to terminate his status as a Convention refugee, and the Refugee Protection Board ruled against Siddiqui. The crux of Siddiqui's appeal was that Section 108 of IRPA only applies to Convention refugees, of which he was not one (rather he was granted protected person status based on H&C grounds). Justice S. Noël denied the appeal, sided with the government, but also certified a question for further appeal.


In any event, for the OP the more practical question may be what sort of things are likely to trigger the Ministers (either of them) to initiate an application to terminate protected status.

In the Najeeb Bashir case, apparently it was Bashir's application for PR status which triggered the inquiry and filing of an application to terminate his protected status. In the Siddiqui it is not clear what triggered the Ministers to pursue termination of Siddiqui's protected status. I do not have the case name or link handy, but I recall seeing another case in which it was clear that it was attendant inquiries related to the individual's application for citizenship which triggered the Ministers to pursue termination of protected status.

I suspect that it is similar to the situation for those who are in breach of the PR Residency Obligation: it is when they are being interviewed at a POE or upon inquiry related to an application made by the PR (for PR card or citizenship or to sponsor a family member), that are the most common triggers.

Mostly, this is something I would go see a competent immigration lawyer about.
1. More examples from the Federal Court on Re-availment

a. http://decisions.fct-cf.gc.ca/fc-cf/decisions/en/item/109108/index.do?r=AAAAAQAJYXZhaWxtZW50AQ No question certified
b. http://decisions.fct-cf.gc.ca/fc-cf/decisions/en/item/110226/index.do?r=AAAAAQAFYXZhaWwB

There is also a decision on a Mexican woman which was also dismissed, but I haven't been able to find it.