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Question on subsection 44(1)

Macius

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Jan 24, 2023
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Hello Guys,

I am having big issue and I need some help (advise) with it if possible.
At present I'm outside Canada and trying to go back.
I became PR in March 2017. I came back to Canada after long break in Jan 2022 and at this point CBSA officer issued me 44(1) report because I wouldn't meet RO even if I would stay in Canada until my PR card would expire (May 2022). But CBSA officer made a possitive decision to keep my PR status. IRCC received my application for renewing PR card on 01.Feb.2022 and till today I haven't received and information from them just my online status turned to "Decision Made" in November 2022. As far as I know decision is possitive and my card has been already issued. I had to leave Canada with the end of October because of important family matters. I applied for PRTD online (PR portal) and my application was returned already twice (all details and attachments provided looks properly), my status is "Returned", return reason is "Wrong Application". I have't received any additional information (requirements).
My question is: in the application as a date of becoming PR shall I put date March 2017 or Jan 2022 (date of issueing 44(1) report)?
I do not have other concerns because everything else looks good.

Thank you very much in advance for your help.

Kind regards!
 

Macius

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Jan 24, 2023
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I forgot to add that question "Date you became a PR in Canada" has an effect for further application questions.
 

Ponga

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Oct 22, 2013
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Hello Guys,

I am having big issue and I need some help (advise) with it if possible.
At present I'm outside Canada and trying to go back.
I became PR in March 2017. I came back to Canada after long break in Jan 2022 and at this point CBSA officer issued me 44(1) report because I wouldn't meet RO even if I would stay in Canada until my PR card would expire (May 2022). But CBSA officer made a possitive decision to keep my PR status. IRCC received my application for renewing PR card on 01.Feb.2022 and till today I haven't received and information from them just my online status turned to "Decision Made" in November 2022. As far as I know decision is possitive and my card has been already issued. I had to leave Canada with the end of October because of important family matters. I applied for PRTD online (PR portal) and my application was returned already twice (all details and attachments provided looks properly), my status is "Returned", return reason is "Wrong Application". I have't received any additional information (requirements).
My question is: in the application as a date of becoming PR shall I put date March 2017 or Jan 2022 (date of issueing 44(1) report)?
I do not have other concerns because everything else looks good.

Thank you very much in advance for your help.

Kind regards!
Don't overthink the question.

You became a PR in March of 2017, right?

You have not yet lost your PR status, right?

The date of when the 44(1) report was issued is irrelevant in terms of the answer to that question.

Remember that it is only the PR Card that expires; PR status does not expire, but can be revoked or renounced...neither of which appear to have happened, yet.

I do have a question regarding this:

I came back to Canada after long break in Jan 2022 and at this point CBSA officer issued me 44(1) report because I wouldn't meet RO even if I would stay in Canada until my PR card would expire (May 2022). But CBSA officer made a possitive decision to keep my PR status.
It is not CBSA that decides if a PR can keep their status. It is IRCC that makes that determination.
 

armoured

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Feb 1, 2015
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I came back to Canada after long break in Jan 2022
So if you departed in October 2022, you have something like ~270 days in Canada (plus or minus 30 days, I guess).

at this point CBSA officer issued me 44(1) report because I wouldn't meet RO even if I would stay in Canada until my PR card would expire (May 2022). But CBSA officer made a possitive decision to keep my PR status.
I would not characterize it this way, although it's somewhat subjective. Instead, they made a decision to not issue an inadmissibility judgment that day. Or, alternatively, decided to give you a chance to demonstrate you wished to reside in Canada, and the way for you to do so was to ... reside in Canada.

And then you left.

IRCC received my application for renewing PR card on 01.Feb.2022 and till today I haven't received and information from them just my online status turned to "Decision Made" in November 2022. As far as I know decision is possitive and my card has been already issued. I had to leave Canada with the end of October because of important family matters.
Well, no way to know, but if it was 'positive' in the sense that they issued the card, it may have been as a way for you to demonstrate you are residing in Canada by ... actually being in Canada.

But at that point, you'd already left.

I applied for PRTD online (PR portal) and my application was returned already twice (all details and attachments provided looks properly), my status is "Returned", return reason is "Wrong Application". I have't received any additional information (requirements).
No idea what's going on here.

My question is: in the application as a date of becoming PR shall I put date March 2017 or Jan 2022 (date of issueing 44(1) report)?
There is only one date on which you became a PR, the date you originally landed.
 

Ponga

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Oct 22, 2013
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Hello Guys,

IRCC received my application for renewing PR card on 01.Feb.2022 and till today I haven't received and information from them just my online status turned to "Decision Made" in November 2022. As far as I know decision is possitive and my card has been already issued.
IRCC would have determined that you did not/will not meet the R.O. when they processed your renewal application. The 44(1) report and the CBSA officer's decision to `approve' your PR doesn't change the fact that IRCC is the decision maker. Although you may feel that it is a positive decision, the fact that IRCC has not reached out to you to at least ask why you do not appear to have met the R.O., may not be a positive sign.

In my opinion (which I realize means pretty much nothing), had you submitted the renewal from within Canada, the chances of a positive decision would certainly appear to be better.

Good luck.
 
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armoured

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In my opinion (which I realize means pretty much nothing), had you submitted the renewal from within Canada, the chances of a positive decision would certainly appear to be better.
Check again, I believe OP says did submit when in Canada - submitted Feb 2022, returned Jan 2022.
 
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Ponga

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Without playing the ridiculous `guessing game' trying to discern how many days the @Macius actually had been in Canada since becoming a PR in 2017, before the return to Canada about a year ago following the `big break', maybe the OP can update the story to give us the missing numbers?

PR as of March 2017

Went away for some period of time and returned Jan 2022

Left Oct 2022

Not much to go on, is it.



How long were they in Canada between March 2017 and whenever they left?

As mentioned by @Armoured95 , the quick math is ~ 307 days (+/-) from Jan 2022 to Oct 2022 (if arrival was Jan 1 and departure was Oct 31), which is clearly not enough to satisfy the R.O., so if that is correct, unless @Macius has ~ 423 days between March 2017 and Jan 2022, it looks like they had not met the R.O. when submitting the renewal application last January.
 
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armoured

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Went away for some period of time and returned Jan 2022
...
it looks like they have not met the R.O.
They already told us they hadn't met the RO before arriving in Jan last year, and for the sake of economy I assumed the number of days between 2017 and Jan 2022 was approximately zero (worst case scenario). I'm guessing that is sufficiently accurate for purposes here.
 

Ponga

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They already told us they hadn't met the RO before arriving in Jan last year, and for the sake of economy I assumed the number of days between 2017 and Jan 2022 was approximately zero (worst case scenario). I'm guessing that is sufficiently accurate for purposes here.
[Just corrected my math in my previous post. Geez! LOL!]

So I don't see how this can be a positive decision, can you?
 

dpenabill

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@Ponga: please review discussion below regarding the procedure pursuant to which it actually is CBSA "that decides if a PR can keep their status" when a 44(1) Report for breach of RO is issued at a Port-of-Entry. I also pointed this out specifically in response to you here in this very topic, with detailed explanation of the procedures, just ten days ago.

The standard procedure at the PoE when CBSA border officers determine a returning PR is in breach of the RO is:
-- examining CBSA officer prepares 44(1) Report, which is specifically for inadmissibility due to a breach of the RO​
-- that Report is referred to a second CBSA officer who reviews it (for validity) and who also interviews the PR to determine if there are H&C reasons for allowing the PR to keep PR status despite being in breach; this almost always takes place while the PR is still in the PoE and BEFORE the PR is allowed to "re-enter" Canada, even if the second officer reviewing the Report interviews the PR telephonically. This results in one of the following:​
-- -- Report set aside, PR allowed to proceed into Canada​
-- -- Report upheld and a Removal/Departure is issued (again by the reviewing CBSA officer, not an IRCC official), and then the PR is allowed to proceed into Canada (PR must appeal this to lawfully remain in Canada more than 30 days)​
-- if the Inadmissibility Report (for a RO breach) is prepared, but no qualified second CBSA officer is available to promptly do the review, the PR may be allowed to enter Canada pending a later review of the Report; this is NOT the usual process, but an exception; the follow-up review is still conducted by a CBSA officer (NOT IRCC)​
While this is largely a technical aspect, the situation presented by @Macius here illustrates a situation in which it can have practical significance (will explain below).

@Macius

My question is: in the application as a date of becoming PR shall I put date March 2017 or Jan 2022 (date of issueing 44(1) report)?
I do not have other concerns because everything else looks good.
Date you landed (appears that was in 2017) is the date you became a PR. And yeah, that means your compliance with the PR Residency Obligation will be calculated based on the five years preceding the date of your PR TD application (since you became a PR more than five years ago).

I have not made an effort to unravel the "wrong application" issues that have popped up recently, but I suspect some of this has to do with which visa office is involved, as I understand there can be specific requirements or applications depending on the particular visa office involved.

Despite your confidence otherwise, from what you have posted it appears there is a significant risk of "other concerns," as reflected in the exchanges between @Ponga and @armoured, which you probably should consider. The details matter. The nature of the H&C case you had is a huge factor. In this regard, if you have additional questions it would be helpful to share more details (as the discussion between @Ponga and @armoured illustrates).


Summary of observations in regards to "other concerns:"

Despite the paucity of detail, it looks like your situation actually fits a fairly common pattern, and one in regards to which more than a few PRs make an all too common mistake:

There is a positive H&C decision (either by IRCC in a PR TD application, or as in your case, by CBSA attendant review of a 44(1) Report initiated at a PoE), and that allows them to retain PR status despite being in RO breach, which the PR can then rely on to apply for and expect to obtain a new (renewed) PR card. BUT then the PR travels outside Canada for more than an occasional, brief trip, which can trigger a Residency Determination potentially resulting in a different outcome in assessing the H&C elements.​
In other words, if you had stayed IN Canada, or at least only left briefly and returned while you still had a valid PR card (or could travel to Canada via the U.S., avoiding having to apply for a PR TD), odds were very good no problem, no issues, or as you framed it, no "other concerns." Leaving Canada for more than just a brief trip potentially changes things. This is not to say you are wrong to conclude you have no such "other concerns;" you could be right about that. But there are clues suggesting otherwise, and it has been rather common for more than a few PRs to under-estimate their risks in these scenarios and, well, run into more problems than anticipated, including those who have lost their PR status as a result.


It is not CBSA that decides if a PR can keep their status. It is IRCC that makes that determination.
@Ponga: This is NOT correct in regards to inadmissibility proceedings for breach of RO commenced by CBSA pursuant to a Port-of-Entry examination.

Reviewing what has previously been posted here:
The officer reviewing a 44(1) Report that was issued during a PoE examination is CBSA (usually done while the PR is still in the PoE, but sometimes done later if a second officer, one qualified to act as a Minister's Delegate, is not available during the PoE examination), and that officer, the reviewing CBSA officer (designated the Minister's Delegate) is the one who makes the decision whether to set the Report aside (such as for H&C reasons) or issue a Departure/Removal Order. If a Departure/Removal Order is issued that is the decision terminating PR status. It is subject to appeal. If appealed it will be the IAD that decides whether to set aside the decision terminating PR status. The IAD is NOT part of IRCC, but is part of the Immigration and Refugee Board (and is an independent tribunal, independent of both IRCC and CBSA). In particular, the IAD is the tribunal that decides PR inadmissibility appeals from BOTH CBSA and IRCC, that is, the IAD hears the appeal of decisions to terminate PR status made by CBSA (for breach of RO) as well as the appeal of decisions to terminate PR status by IRCC (for RO breach or for inadmissibility based on security or serious criminality grounds).
**note: Precise practices vary some. So there are exceptions.

The "Minister" for whom the second, reviewing CBSA officer is considered the "Minister's Delegate," and who is the officer deciding whether to set aside the 44(1) Report or not (and if not, issue a Removal/Departure Order), is the Minister of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness . . . NOT the Minister of IRCC.

As I have previously noted, while this is largely about the technical side of things, in some situations it has actual, practical consequences. While @Macius has not shared enough detail to be sure, it appears this is such a case.

Bringing this to a concern you, @Ponga, and @armoured have addressed even though Macius says there are no other concerns, and that is the status of decision-making in regards to whether a new PR card has been approved and issued for Macius, and a related RO compliance, or potential inadmissibility concern, that could mean an application for a PR TD is denied. This gets a little complicated, and as both of you have noted the absence of detail leaves some of this uncertain.

It appears most likely (again, subject to some uncertainties) that upon returning to Canada in January 2022 there was a 44(1) Report prepared and formally reviewed, resulting in a decision based on H&C reasons to allow Macius to keep PR status, despite being in RO breach. Even though such a decision is not absolutely binding in a subsequent Residency Determination (such as attendant processing a PR card application), and it does not entirely restart the clock, it is an adjudication of status and generally has a binding effect UNLESS there is a change in circumstances (caution: significant period of absence from Canada, after the positive H&C decision, can constitute such a change in circumstances).

A PR who has been subject to this process at a PoE, where a 44(1) Report has been prepared and reviewed, and set aside for H&C reasons, can generally proceed to make an application for a new PR card WITHOUT waiting -- no need to stay long enough to meet the RO before making the PR card application. The positive H&C decision by CBSA should be given effect and dictate a positive outcome, issuance of a new PR card.

Again, the caveat here is the CBSA decision, allowing H&C relief, is mostly (but not entirely) controlling UNLESS there is a change in circumstances. Which could be about additional absences since the PoE/CBSA decision, and thus an additional absence can lead to a different outcome.

Which brings this to the Macius-situation in particular . . . to be continued.
 
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dpenabill

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So I don't see how this can be a positive decision, can you?
As noted above, it appears that a year ago, January 2022, @Macius benefitted from a positive H&C decision setting aside a 44(1) Report. And thus, Macius is probably right to conclude the "decision made" on the PR card application is a positive decision to issue a new PR card. In this regard, it warrants noting that PR card applications are not denied (with some exceptions), not if the applicant is actually a PR. Rather, IRCC follows its version of the 44(1) Report process when a PR applying for a PR card is seen as in breach of the RO.

And as noted, this outcome was to be expected, frankly, given the PoE experience (well, assuming there was a positive decision when the 44(1) Report was reviewed).

HOWEVER, it is clear that in some cases like this (not all) it is common for IRCC to conduct further inquiry or some other non-routing processing, and sometimes withhold delivering new PR cards pending an in-person appearance to pick-up the card, which also involves, at minimum, a counter-interview, to verify (1) the PR is IN Canada, and (2) to screen the PR in regards to RO compliance, more or less checking whether subsequent events (mostly about subsequent absences) indicate reason to decide the PR is inadmissible despite the earlier positive H&C decision.

This is one of those junctures in the process that can get quite complicated. BUT if the PR has remained IN Canada after making the PR card application, it will generally be simple: appear in person, answer some questions, and receive delivery of the new PR card. And again, this would be the usual course of events for a PR who has had a favourable decision by CBSA in reviewing a 44(1) RO breach Report.

Except, Macius exited Canada.

We do not know what sort of H&C case Macius put forward a year ago. Which makes it very difficult to so much as guess how much risk Macius has, now. In particular, it is difficult to forecast whether an application for a PR TD will be denied, or that another 44(1) Report might be issued (by CBSA) upon next arrival in Canada, or that upon being interviewed during an in-person PR card pick-up a 44(1) Report might be issued (by IRCC). What we do know is that Macius exited Canada and has been abroad for a period of months, long enough to potentially mean there is some risk this will be seen as a change in circumstances.

REMINDER: if during processing a PR card application IRCC determines the PR is in breach of the RO and the PR has not provided sufficient evidence to warrant H&C relief, IRCC does not (not ordinarily) deny the PR card application but, rather, prepares and proceeds with a 44(1) Report. This can happen based on the information submitted with the application itself, if it shows a clear breach of the RO, in which case the Report could be dated the date the application was made. OR, it could happen following either an interview or upon receiving the PR's submission in response to a request by IRCC for additional information.



An Additional Clarification:

Macius said:
at this point CBSA officer issued me 44(1) report because I wouldn't meet RO even if I would stay in Canada until my PR card would expire (May 2022). But CBSA officer made a possitive decision to keep my PR status.
I would not characterize it this way, although it's somewhat subjective. Instead, they made a decision to not issue an inadmissibility judgment that day. Or, alternatively, decided to give you a chance to demonstrate you wished to reside in Canada, and the way for you to do so was to ... reside in Canada.
We have discussed the context in these scenarios before and I think I did rather poorly explaining things. Please bear with me as I take another shot.

If a 44(1) Report was prepared, and reviewed by the Minister's Delegate (the usual procedure), that constitutes a Residency Determination, and is a formal/official adjudication of status. A positive decision based on H&C reasons establishes a very strong even though not absolutely binding precedent. I discuss this some above.

But the anecdotal reporting tends to suggest that more often, perhaps more often by a lot, PRs in breach, even many who are more or less quite obviously in breach, are benefitting from a casual exercise of leniency, and thus given the authority to enter Canada without a 44(1) Report being prepared. This can be a totally casual waive through at the PIL, or it can follow some RO compliance questioning in Secondary, nonetheless still resulting in a waive through, sometimes with admonitions.

Where we got hung up before was in regards to distinguishing what constitutes a formal/official decision in these situations. Yes, the decision to allow entry is formal/official. But that is the extent of that decision: an official decision to allow entry.

Once a 44(1) Report is prepared, the decision made in reviewing that Report (usually but not necessarily while the PR is still in the PoE, before the decision to allow entry) rests on making a Residency Determination, an adjudication of status not just determining authorization to enter Canada.

Whether a 44(1) Report is prepared, or not, is the big difference, the difference that really makes a difference . . . and then, once the Report is prepared, whether it is set aside (which is usually about H&C relief) or it results in a decision terminating PR status; the latter, if that happens, is documented and effected by the issuance of a Removal/Departure Order. To be clear: if the Report is not set aside, but results in issuing a Removal Order, that terminates PR status unless there is a successful appeal or the Minister otherwise effectively sets the decision aside.

The number of those PRs in breach questioned about RO compliance in some depth but waived through, so far as anecdotal reporting has reflected, seems to have increased a lot during Covid, and during this time (nearly three years now) the number of reports similar to Macius, indicating a Report was prepared but set aside, has been quite small.

Note: we have seen something similar in regards to PR TD applications, quite a few PRs issued a PR TD despite being in breach, but NOT the RC-1 coded version. It is as if IRCC (in the PR TD application context), and CBSA (in PoE examinations) is more or less giving some PRs considerable leeway, a chance to come, stay, settle in Canada, without giving them a definitive pass on their breach.

Meanwhile, much of the anecdotal reporting about this has been notoriously imprecise. In many of the scenarios discussed in the forum, it is not clear just what happened, what the extent of questioning was, or what level of decision-making there was. And yeah, that is also somewhat true here, in regards to Macius. The difference, and a lot depends on it, is that Macius' report more specifically indicates that the 44(1) Report was in fact prepared. That distinguishes this scenario from those where a PR is waived through without a formal/official Residency Determination.

In short: the decision to allow entry is just that, an official decision to allow entry. If a 44(1) Report is prepared, the decision to set it aside is different, it depends on a formal/official Residency Determination, an adjudication of status (amply illustrated by the fact that a decision otherwise is the decision terminating PR status, unless there is a successful appeal).

Again, this is important because that decision is mostly binding. If the Report is set aside for H&C reasons, by the reviewing officer, the PR can then relatively safely proceed to make a PR card application without waiting to first spend 730 days in Canada. Most PRs in this situation would be wise to still wait some before proceeding to make the PR card application, waiting long enough to show they are actually settling and staying in Canada.

Bringing this back round to Macius. Who appears to have not waited much at all to make the PR card application (arrived Jan 2022 and made PR card application "01.Feb.2022"). We do not have nearly enough information to fully digest what has been happening, but it appears IRCC still had enough concerns that the PR card application encountered some kind of non-routine processing, so instead of a decision within three to five months it was at least NINE months.

My sense is a real lot could depend on the strength of the H&C case, including an explanation for the more recent absence.