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PR card renewal (short by 6 months)

sanketkumar

Newbie
Oct 10, 2023
4
3
Hi there,

I got PR in April 2019 and have stayed in Canada for 1 year 6 months.
My PR card will expire in April 2024. In 2019 when I got PR, I was working in Canada until 2021 March. In between this period, I had gone to my home country few times on vacation and for around 4 months worked from my home country as couldn't get leave for long time (not sure if it would count in RO). In March 2021, I have to move to my country as my mother health deteriorated (due to several chronic illness - Cancer, Parkinson and others) and sadly she passed away in Sept 2021. At that point, I decided to stay with my family.
In 2022, my father was diagnosed with long term tuberculosis and then Crohn's disease. So I had to stay further and work in my country to support the family and myself.
In 2023, my wife also have to go through a surgery for her illness.
Due to this health emergency, I have never been able to go back to fulfill residency obligations. But I do plan to move permanently in 2024.

At this point, I am thinking to travel to Canada in early April 2023 and meet obligation and then apply for PR renewal. Would I be questioned at port of entry since by rule I should have met residency obligation by April 2023? Would my application be considered if I follow above approach?
Can I apply for renewal explaining and providing medical documents for above for consideration. Would it be considered?
Any other advise from your experience that can give me a way to come out of the RO problem I am facing.

Thank you for the help.

Regards
 
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armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
15,586
7,934
At this point, I am thinking to travel to Canada in early April 2023 and meet obligation and then apply for PR renewal. Would I be questioned at port of entry since by rule I should have met residency obligation by April 2023? Would my application be considered if I follow above approach?
Can I apply for renewal explaining and providing medical documents for above for consideration. Would it be considered?
Any other advise from your experience that can give me a way to come out of the RO problem I am facing.
It is too late to return for April 2023.

From math below, you MIGHT be in compliance if your days outside of Canada since April 2019 are less than 1095 as of today, and if so: get on a plane to Canada BEFORE you hit that number of 1095 days outside Canada. But probably you are already out of compliance.

Assuming you mean 2024 AND that your PR card is still valid at that point:
-You may be questioned at port of entry for being out so long. But you may just get waved through with no further questions, or given a warning, or a flag put on your file, or ... you may get 'reported' for being out of compliance. If so, you would need to appeal or you will lose your PR status.
-No-one can tell you chances of being waved through or winning appeal, but with some decent explanations - eg your medical docs etc - there is a decent chance you'll retain your PR status.

BUT: the weakest part of your plan is this - you should not apply to renew your PR card until you are back in compliance with your RO. Because you have spent more than 1095 days outside Canada (if I've done the math correctly - four months = 120 days prior to March 2021, and 2 yrs 8 months to today = 970 minimum for a total of ~1095 days to today and certainly more than that when you return - but you shoudl do your own calcs) and you have no recent time in Canada, it will basically take two years to get back in compliance (you will lose credit for all those days from April 2019 to March 2021 while gaining more recent ones for net of zero).

That's okay. You can live IN Canada without a valid PR card, work, etc. (You'd need to apply for things like health care on arrival).

But any time you leave Canada, you would either have to return by land from USA, or ... apply for PRTD which could lead to you losing status. Basically, stay in Canada.

Is it realistic for you to stay in Canada for two years straight, not travelling? You should assume you can't really sponsor your spouse either.
 
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sanketkumar

Newbie
Oct 10, 2023
4
3
thank you for reply.
At this point, I am only thinking to renewing PR status or PR card (not the citizenship) and for that I only have to stay at least 730 days within Canada from April 2019 (https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=727&top=4) .

I am short by 180 days currently and it is around 200 days left till April end 2024. So I believe I still can meet obligation provided I fly to Canada in Oct 2023.

Please let me know if my understanding of eligibility of PR renewal is incorrect somewhere.

However, can my request be considered on humanitarian grounds given my immediate family member health emergencies in case I do not meet residency obligation ?
Please let me know your view/opinion
 

YVR123

VIP Member
Jul 27, 2017
6,603
2,519
I had gone to my home country few times on vacation and for around 4 months worked from my home country as couldn't get leave for long time (not sure if it would count in RO).
Just want to comment on your remote work days.

They DO NOT count as physical day inside Canada. So you cannot include those days for your RO.

NOT sure if the above post on RO short by 180 days count that 4 months. If you did, you are out of RO. Cos you cannot count them.

And btw less than 1095 outside of Canada in the 5 years is eqv to more than 730 days in Canada.
 
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armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
15,586
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thank you for reply.
At this point, I am only thinking to renewing PR status or PR card (not the citizenship) and for that I only have to stay at least 730 days within Canada from April 2019 (https://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=727&top=4) .

I am short by 180 days currently and it is around 200 days left till April end 2024. So I believe I still can meet obligation provided I fly to Canada in Oct 2023.

Please let me know if my understanding of eligibility of PR renewal is incorrect somewhere.

However, can my request be considered on humanitarian grounds given my immediate family member health emergencies in case I do not meet residency obligation ?
Please let me know your view/opinion
Ah, so you meant October 2023, and not April 2023/4? if you can return while still in compliance the situation is much, much easier.

Or as I wrote above:
From math below, you MIGHT be in compliance if your days outside of Canada since April 2019 are less than 1095 as of today, and if so: get on a plane to Canada BEFORE you hit that number of 1095 days.
The reason I was referring to the 1095 days OUT of Canada:
730 days of five years IN Canada = 1095 days OUT of Canada*. So you must have MORE than 730 days IN Canada, or LESS than 1095 days OUT of Canada to be in compliance.

If you are still compliant - if your count is correct, and it is only about 20 days off my rough count from the little information you gave - then return to Canada ASAP. And I want to underline: return BEFORE you fall out of compliance.

In your case - because you spent 2 1/2 years out of Canada - I would really encourage applying for your renewal of PR card after you've accumulated some buffer over the 730 days minimum, AND - if possible - some solid period of time living in Canada continuously, like six to eight months. Too close to the wire might result in more detailed review and delays.

* 5 yrs X 365 days - 730 = 1095.
 
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armoured

VIP Member
Feb 1, 2015
15,586
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However, can my request be considered on humanitarian grounds given my immediate family member health emergencies in case I do not meet residency obligation ?
Short form, you'd typically only get a formal decision on this by means of applying for a PRTD from abroad (or some other formal application). And those tend to take much longer and be somewhat risky.

Alternatively, the 'informal' route - being treated leniently at the border when only slightly out of compliance - is pretty common BUT in your case inferior because you will lose many days from the start of your PR status and possibly take long to get back in compliance.

So returning while still compliant is far superior, esp in your case.

Note: I don't have all the details including day counts and precise periods, so I'm somewhat generalizing from incomplete info. Details might support a slightly different approach but what I've described is conservative and safe.
 

sanketkumar

Newbie
Oct 10, 2023
4
3
Thank you.
When I calculated my inside days in Canada as 550 day (short by 180 day), I only counted the days I was physically inside Canada. So I believe only safe option for me is to travel in Oct 2023 to renew my PR status once I meet residency obligation.
and also based on above advise, if I travel in early 2024, I won't meet residency obligation so I may be questioned at Port of entry.
 
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dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
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At this point, I am thinking to travel to Canada in early April 2023 and meet obligation and then apply for PR renewal.
Noting alternatives, including potentially traveling here soon, as in this month.

. . . can my request be considered on humanitarian grounds given my immediate family member health emergencies in case I do not meet residency obligation ?
I largely concur in what @armoured and @YVR123 have commented.

While I will go into some detail in regards to the situation, my observations will mostly be oriented to emphasizing the need to come to Canada to stay.

Whether you come real soon, or relatively soon, and whether you need H&C relief or not, to keep your PR status you will need to come to Canada to stay. Odds are probably good things will go OK, even if you are a little in breach of the RO when you arrive here, but that will only continue to be the case if you are coming to STAY.

If you are coming to stay, what @armoured and @YVR123 have commented should be enough for you to navigate your way forward.

So there is NO need to consider my further observations UNLESS you are considering NOT staying for the next two years (except perhaps for SHORT excursions abroad) .

REMINDER: only days IN Canada within the previous five years count toward meeting the Residency Obligation; key to understanding why staying is important for a PR in a situation like yours is to recognize that come April 2024, the days you were present in Canada in April 2019 will NO LONGER count toward meeting the RO. Even if you are issued a brand new PR card.

Regarding H&C Relief:

Yes, for purposes of a Residency Determination, if you are in breach of the PR Residency Obligation (which it appears you may be now, but at least for sure you will be if you do not come to Canada quite soon if not very soon) H&C reasons for the stay outside Canada can be presented and they will be considered. Whether the Residency Determination is during a Port-of-Entry (PoE) examination attendant inadmissibility proceedings, or in the course of processing an application for a new PR card, the RO breach may be in effect waived for H&C reasons, allowing you to keep PR status despite being inadmissible for failing to comply with the RO.

That said, obtaining H&C relief is tricky, unpredictable, and as @armoured said "risky." This deserves emphasis: relying on H&C relief is risky. It can really help if the PR is in breach by only a little (some formal decisions say things like a moderate breach of the RO only requires moderately compelling H&C factors for relief to be allowed), so the sooner you are IN Canada, the better the odds of H&C relief (if needed).

But in your situation what looms large is H&C relief will only work IF YOU COME TO CANADA TO STAY.

If you leave Canada for any significant period of time, that will add to the extent of your breach of the RO. Does no good to get a new PR card if you leave Canada and are in breach of the RO when you are next screened at a PoE when you return here (getting H&C relief one time is tricky enough; counting on H&C relief a second time is, well, really pushing it).

Even if NOT in RO breach:

And even if you return to Canada before you have breached the RO, that too really only works, in your situation, if YOU STAY.

Leading to . . .

I got PR in April 2019 and have stayed in Canada for 1 year 6 months.
My PR card will expire in April 2024. In 2019 when I got PR, I was working in Canada until 2021 March. In between this period, I had gone to my home country few times on vacation and for around 4 months worked from my home country as couldn't get leave for long time (not sure if it would count in RO). In March 2021, I have to move to my country . . .
At this point, I am only thinking to renewing PR status or PR card (not the citizenship) and for that I only have to stay at least 730 days within Canada from April 2019
If you come to Canada SOON, even if you are a little in breach of the RO when you arrive, the odds are probably good you will be waived through the PoE without being examined as to RO compliance, let alone subject to inadmissibility proceedings.

If you are in RO compliance when you arrive (which would mean you have been outside Canada fewer than 1095 days since the day you landed), AND you are Coming To STAY, once you have established a more or less permanent residence here it should also be OK to proceed with making the application for a new PR card (there is no renewal of PR status by the way).

I will not attempt to be precise about the arithmetic. As both @armoured and @YVR123 referenced, the easy way to calculate if, or when, you are in breach of the RO is to count the total number of days outside Canada since the date of landing. If the number of days outside Canada is less than 1095, you are currently in RO compliance.

Obviously you are cutting-it-close AT BEST.

When doing a RO compliance calculation, be sure to NOT use the date the PR card expires. The date the PR card expires is largely NOT relevant, and definitely NOT relevant for purposes of calculating RO compliance. (The date the PR card expires is only relevant in that, one, as long as it is valid it will allow a PR to board an airline flight coming to Canada, and two, the odds of being waived through at the PoE, without RO compliance questioning, are better when presenting a valid PR card.)

You reference a landing date in April 2019 and your PR card expiring in April 2024. Given the time between date of landing and date PR cards are ordinarily issued, this suggests an early April 2019 landing date. In any event, to be clear, if the date your RO compliance is calculated is, say, April 21, 2024, that calculation will be based on the total number of days you have been IN Canada between April 21, 2019 and April 21, 2024. Days in Canada before April 21, 2019 will NOT count.

I go into that detail to help illustrate how this will work if there is a RO compliance calculation later. If, for example, you come to Canada and apply for and are issued a new PR card, either because you are in RO compliance or because you have been allowed H&C relief . . . and then, say in June 2024, you leave Canada, and then you are gone until, perhaps, mid-December, returning to Canada December 17, 2024. If you are questioned about RO compliance when you arrive at the PoE (and there is a significant chance of that happening given your record and what will likely be readily seen in your record if a border official pulls it up), the calculation will be based on the number of days IN Canada between December 17, 2019 and December 17, 2024. If that is less than 730, there is a significant risk of inadmissibility proceedings. Perhaps not a big risk. But, if there is a longer absence beyond that, you can count and see where this is going.

Yeah, I have taken the long way round to making a relatively simple point. But this seems something all too easily overlooked. A new PR card is not worth much, and H&C relief is not worth much, unless the PR stays IN Canada long enough to avoid any further breach of the RO.