PR Card Renewal issues advice needed.

[ScottishPaul]

Hello, People I hope you are all well and that some of you can give me some words of wisdom.

We applied for PR Card renewal and it is taking way too long and I am wondering if anyone can give us some feedback due to imminent travel that we have to make. The story is so far:

September 30th 2013: Applied for PR card renewal.

Nov 12th 2013 - Started processing in Sydney.

January 21st 2014 - Transferred to CIC Vancouver.

March 10th 2014 – We received a letter asking if we could apply for the government records of movement and send this back to them, which takes 30 days to process (don’t know why they could not just look this up on their end). Fill out the questionnaire: Determination of Permanent Resident Status IMM 5511 and also give written explanations for all absences for being out of Canada.

April 29th 2014: They received all above document (this is by mail tracking not confirmation by them) and on website our status is pending.

Basically I think I know why this has been flagged up and sent of the local office as over the last five years we have been moving backwards and forwards between the UK and Canada, had two kids one in Scotland who holds a PR for Canada and one born in Vancouver who is a Canadian citizen (lucky him).

With these movements to the UK we have been very conscious about maintaining our PR status days and from when the application was sent to local CIC. I had at the time of posting 1057 days and my partner has 777 days. Is there any other stipulation for maintaining your PR status that we are missing or is it just purely on your days? We have ties here own a house, car, job, kids in daycare etc.

Now as I believe the requirement is 730 days in 5 years so we both qualify for this and I understand that they will want to make sure that we make this number of days.

My problem is that I need to travel back to the UK until September (4 months) but we don’t have a valid PR card. My family has already gone back and I have been here waiting to see if something would appear in the post, but to no avail. I have called and applied via website to speed up process and have been told that as it has been sent to local office and you have just to wait and can take up to a year for it to be processed, so obviously I don’t want to hang around here waiting whilst my family are back in the UK.

If I travel back to the UK I can apply for a travel document but I am concerned that if I apply for one I might get refused or be refused at the border as my case is in a local office being investigated.

Any advice is greatly appreciated as I feel that I am stuck in limbo here and scared to travel.

Cheers
Paul

 

[S_Govind]

As you and your partner are 'visa exempt', you could try and re-enter the country on the strength of your British passport. Assuming you have satisfied the RO (777 and 157 days respectively), you may not be reported at the border although the database might show you and your partner as being a PR. If further questioned, you might have some explanation to offer.

How exactly are you calculating the residence period of 770 odd days? hopefully you are counting from the day you landed as a PR. The date of expiration of your card is moot as CIC is allowed by the law to only look at the immediate 5 years that precede the date of application for a new PR card.

Satisfying the RO is purely based on your physical presence in the country for a period of 730 days, obviously well documented !

My take is that being a PR and not having lost your status, you cannot be returned at the border.

 

[ScottishPaul]

Thanks S_Govind, yes these days 1057 me 777 days my partner are calculated from the imediate 5 years that precede the date of the application to them.

cheers

 

[canuck_in_uk]

You do not need a PR Travel Document. You can travel to Canada on the strength of your passport alone. When you get to immigration, you explain that you've applied to renew your PR card but haven't yet received it. Shouldn't be a problem, as you would still meet the RO even with a 4 month absence.

However, you say your partner had 777 days when you applied in September and that your family has already gone back to the UK. When did your partner leave Canada and when will s/he be returning?

 

[ScottishPaul]

Hi Canuck in the UK, my partner left on the 11/04/14 and planning to return to Canada in early September, does this seem like a problem?

Cheers

 

[Alurra71]

Hi Canuck in the UK, my partner left on the 11/04/14 and planning to return to Canada in early September, does this seem like a problem?

Cheers

After the initial 5 years as a PR you must be able to look back 5 years and meet the RO of 730 days. Your partner left again on April 11, and you signed your application on Sept 11. You said h/she had 777 days at time of application, correct?

If this is the case then your partner has a buffer of 117 days (if I counted correctly), which means that before that 117 days expires, h/she should be back inside of Canada to ensure h/she is meeting the RO. You might want to have him/her rethink the September return as that would put them behind in RO days by 25 days (if I have counted correctly) and that assumes an arrival date of Sept 1. Once inside Canada, before they could leave again after that point they would need to make up those 25 days, and then add a good buffer before leaving again for any length of time.

Because you move back and forth a lot, apparently, you can expect that you will likely have this same problem every time you renew your PR cards if you continue in this fashion.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Without knowing the exact dates that your partner was in Canada, I can't say for sure.

In order for your partner to continue to meet the RO while out of Canada and upon returning, s/he must have had at least 730 days in Canada between Sept 2009 and April 2014. That would mean that s/he will still have the required 730 days between Sept 2009 and Sept 2014.

 

[ScottishPaul]

Thanks for your replays. So Canuck we have been doing our calculations and my partner has enough days to last her until End of September 2014 then she will start going into the negative days. I on the other hand am currently on 1088 days and counting still in BC. So am i correct if we apply for a travel document when back in the UK the only stipulation is that they will ask for have we reached/maintained our RO from the snap shot of when we apply for the TD. We know we have enough days (just) to maintain our RO but will the Canadian Embassy in the UK not wonder why our application has been sent to the local office and then question this and refuse our TD. If they refuse our TD but we do make the RO what then or does this not happen? Or do we just return back to Canada on our UK passports and deal with officer in Vancouver being that we will be traveling with two children one with valid PR card the other is a Canadian citizen (could just get the wee man to get a job and sponsor us he's 1.5 years old lol)

cheers

 

[Madan Mohan Suri]

Myself and my wife are PR card holders and our PR cards are expiring in 3rd week of November,2014 and third week of December,2014.
During the last 5 years we have completed 577 days of physical stay in canada which is lower by 143 days for renewal. This is basically on account of our having travelled to chicago whenever we came to canada to visit our second daughter. If totalled 577 plus our days in USA, we coplete requirements for renewal. I am 82 years old and my wife is 74 yrs.

Our question is that we want to leave back for india in mid june and come back in mid August,2014 and complete the balance period of 143 days but our present PR CARD would have expired. MAIN QUESTION IS CAN WE COMPLETE 730 days after mid August but our card wd have expired and then apply for Renewal of PR Card.

If so while in canada after expiry of our PR Cards and before applying for renewal, WHAT WILL BE OUR STATUS AND ARE THERE ANY HURDLES LEGALLY AND SECONDLY CAN WE APPLY FOR RENEWAL AFTER COMPLETING 730 DAYS NO MATTER AFTER OUR CARDS HAVE EXPIRED. KINDLY HELP IN YOUR ADVICE

Regards

M M SURI

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Thanks for your replays. So Canuck we have been doing our calculations and my partner has enough days to last her until End of September 2014 then she will start going into the negative days. I on the other hand am currently on 1088 days and counting still in BC. So am i correct if we apply for a travel document when back in the UK the only stipulation is that they will ask for have we reached/maintained our RO from the snap shot of when we apply for the TD. We know we have enough days (just) to maintain our RO but will the Canadian Embassy in the UK not wonder why our application has been sent to the local office and then question this and refuse our TD. If they refuse our TD but we do make the RO what then or does this not happen? Or do we just return back to Canada on our UK passports and deal with officer in Vancouver being that we will be traveling with two children one with valid PR card the other is a Canadian citizen (could just get the wee man to get a job and sponsor us he's 1.5 years old lol)

You don't need PRTDs; it is pointless for a visa-exempt person to apply for one, so don't bother with it.

Just come back to Canada on the strength of your British (and 1 Canadian) passports. When you arrive, the border officer might ask questions about the residency obligation but probably won't; even if the officer asks, you will have enough days to meet the RO anyways. The only time to be nervous is when you DON'T meet the RO. IF THEY ASK QUESTIONS, explain that you have applied for renewals and are just waiting for your new cards. If they don't ask, don't volunteer info. With renewal apps processing and a Canadian child, I seriously doubt you will have any problems.

 

[ScottishPaul]

Thanks Again Canuck, Just for me being stupid here but if I come back on the strength of my UK passport without TD would you go to the Canadian/pr side or the tourist side and should we have our old PR card with us as well as proof of PR status. But basically saying the TD is only really for PR who don't have a visa free passport like the UK?

cheers

 

[Msafiri]

Thanks Again Canuck, Just for me being stupid here but if I come back on the strength of my UK passport without TD would you go to the Canadian/pr side or the tourist side and should we have our old PR card with us as well as proof of PR status. But basically saying the TD is only really for PR who don't have a visa free passport like the UK?

cheers

Go to the PR line. You should seriously consider applying for citizenship if you can make 1095 days of physical presence in the 4 year period prior to application. The residence requirements are about to get tougher (4 years of actual physical presence) which could make a difference to when you will attain Citizenship. As for records of movement UKBA don't stamp EU Nationals so its a hassle getting entry records but try for a SAR under the DPA from their Croydon Office it likely will have this info.

 

[canuck_in_uk]

Thanks Again Canuck, Just for me being stupid here but if I come back on the strength of my UK passport without TD would you go to the Canadian/pr side or the tourist side and should we have our old PR card with us as well as proof of PR status.

You are PRs (and a Canadian), you go to the Canadian/PR side. You can take your expired cards and carry the fee receipt or ECAS printout to show proof of the renewal. As I said, I doubt they will ask for anything else beyond that.

But basically saying the TD is only really for PR who don't have a visa free passport like the UK?

Yes.

PR cards or PRTDs are needed to show commercial carriers (airlines, ferries etc.) that a person has the right to enter Canada. This comes down to carriers protecting themselves; if they board a person who doesn't have the right to enter Canada, they pay for that person's flight out of Canada.

A non visa-exempt person without a PR card, a PRTD or a TRV wouldn't be allowed to board because the carrier would have to assume that the person doesn't have the right to enter Canada and will be refused entry, thereby costing the carrier money.

A visa-exempt person is able to enter Canada without a visa, so the risk of being refused entry is low enough that the carrier doesn't worry.

 

[Msafiri]

Myself and my wife are PR card holders and our PR cards are expiring in 3rd week of November,2014 and third week of December,2014.
During the last 5 years we have completed 577 days of physical stay in canada which is lower by 143 days for renewal. This is basically on account of our having travelled to chicago whenever we came to canada to visit our second daughter. If totalled 577 plus our days in USA, we coplete requirements for renewal. I am 82 years old and my wife is 74 yrs.

Our question is that we want to leave back for india in mid june and come back in mid August,2014 and complete the balance period of 143 days but our present PR CARD would have expired. MAIN QUESTION IS CAN WE COMPLETE 730 days after mid August but our card wd have expired and then apply for Renewal of PR Card.

If so while in canada after expiry of our PR Cards and before applying for renewal, WHAT WILL BE OUR STATUS AND ARE THERE ANY HURDLES LEGALLY AND SECONDLY CAN WE APPLY FOR RENEWAL AFTER COMPLETING 730 DAYS NO MATTER AFTER OUR CARDS HAVE EXPIRED. KINDLY HELP IN YOUR ADVICE

Regards

M M SURI

1. Its a very bad idea to put your real names especially all of them on a public forum - if/ when CBSA/CIC hang out on these forums they will pick you off real easy!

2. At renewal date you must have 730 days in the 5 year period prior to the application date.

3. Your can't count any days outside Canada towards the 730 days (there are exemptions but these don't apply to you).

4. Expect CIC to ask for proof of your physical presence. Its more difficult to prove presence when you don't work. I'd expect CIC to want records of movements from you for the US (CBP), Canada (CBSA - you give consent in the PR renewal form) and India (Interior Ministry or equivalence of CBSA/CBP).

5. Its unwise to let your PR Card expire when you are outside Canada because you need to apply for a PRTD at a visa post overseas. The visa post may give you a hard time with the application especially if your proof of residence in Canada is weak. You may use your US visas to enter via a land border with Canada.

6. You do not need a PR Card to live in Canada. Like many PRs who play roulette with the RO you may either get reported at entry or avoid a report (if it seems you will breach the RO) when entering Canada. Once in without report you can stay until you get the 730 days and apply for a PR Card. You do not need a PR Card during this 'sins will be forgiven goal' but you may have many challenges dealing with bureaucracy that wants a valid PR Card as proof of status.

This section of the forum is full of PRs with similar profiles to yours..i.e. they want to come and go from Canada as they please (actually visiting not residing) whilst pushing the RO envelope...read up and see if its worth it.

 

[haider raza]

Hi
my name is haider raza, i came in canada with my wife and son for immigration and i stayed for six months and enjoyed good time but due to parents health and family issues,i had to go back.
Now i have one queet daughter and want to resume my immigration
What I have to do
Please advice
Haider