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penalties for marriage fraud

Foolish

Member
Jan 5, 2015
14
0
So if criminal charges are not a requirement for waiving condition 51, then she can just make up the same pack of lies to CIC that she made up to the local police when she first had me charged, and CIC will believe her? What about my side of the story and all my evidence to refute her claim? How is that heard?

CIC must rely on the criminal process to know if the abuse was real or not.
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,282
3,042
You previously posted:
Foolish said:
If I'm found not guilty and all charges dropped then she must come back to live with me for two years other wise she faces deportation, right?
The responses rather adequately communicated an answer in the negative.

So your recent queries are, well, already answered above.

In particular, what CIC does now is no more your business than it is any other taxpayer's business. (Taxpayers in general should be concerned with fraud and enforcement of the IRPA; but it is the job of CIC to determine if a condition of PR has not been met, not any individual taxpayer . . . your responsibility is to make a report, and once you have done that, what happens is no longer your business.)

If you are being compelled to pay support for her, that is likely to continue for some time to come as even if CIC commences the process to terminate her PR status, based on the failure to satisfy Condition 51, that process can take a long while and especially so if she appeals.



In any event:

Foolish said:
Update.
The bogus criminal charge (assault) that she brought on me has been completely withdrawn by the Crown Attorney. This information was promptly passed along to CBSA and CIC.

Do you think CIC will now snap into action and start to investigate her? Will this hopefully end in deportation?
If you have made a report to CIC, you have done your part. What CIC does depends on their internal review of the case and decision-making. Not really any of your business now, even though there is the potential liability for support factor. The latter is not relevant to CIC's decision-making as to what action to take, or not take, based on the information it has received.


Foolish said:
So if criminal charges are not a requirement for waiving condition 51, then she can just make up the same pack of lies to CIC that she made up to the local police when she first had me charged, and CIC will believe her? What about my side of the story and all my evidence to refute her claim? How is that heard?

CIC must rely on the criminal process to know if the abuse was real or not.
No, CIC will not rely on the criminal process to know if the abuse was real or not.

CIC has its own fact-finding procedure. Once the report is made, CIC would ordinarily review that and decide whether an investigation is warranted. If so, CIC conducts the investigation. Notice is given to the PR. If the PR has not already made a request for an exception to Condition 51 based on abuse, the PR may at that time request the exception. CIC will complete the investigation and decide what action to take, if any. CIC may contact you for more information in the course of its investigation. You have no side to this story. You are a witness NOT a party.

It is likely a conviction would have been conclusive in the PR's favour, since it would be strong evidence the alleged abuse took place.

The lack of prosecution or dismissal or acquittal, however, has little or no bearing.

There are many reasons for this.

One is that the burden of proof is different. A substantially higher burden of proof must be met to convict an individual of a crime than what is required to prove the same acts in a civil context. In particular, proof beyond a reasonable doubt is required to convict. Proof beyond a balance of probabilities is all that is required in the context of showing abuse for purposes of Condition 51.

Secondly, what constitutes acts which are crimes is far more narrow than what constitutes abuse which will result in the exception for Condition 51. For example, insults and name-calling can constitute pyschological abuse for which the exception will apply. Those acts may fall way, way short of acts governed by the criminal law.

In a previous post above I quoted significant parts of CIC's information about this subject and linked the source. That information, and my post as well, clearly reflects that no criminal conviction is necessary . . . and why this is so.

In any event, again, other than your role as a witness, what CIC does now is no more your business than it is any other taxpayer's business.
 

kepi

Full Member
Aug 8, 2014
35
0
I am movin on.but the thing is he has left me with alot of dedt.30,000.00
so because of this im very angry at it all.if they put rules on p r then they should stand behind it all.other wise all people will do this.they will marry to get in and as soon as they get there pr they will leave.i was blindsided he seemed liked the niceiest guy ever everyone liked him.then when he got what he wanted he leaves.we bought a 25,000.00 travel trailor in may and in july he says he has been cheating.the trailor is in both names as I signed thinking he loved me.now he is registered owner and I cant use it or insure it.i now have to make payments on it.i think at least immagration should at least make him pay back to me.if they say he cant stay.
 

scylla

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kepi said:
I am movin on.but the thing is he has left me with alot of dedt.30,000.00
so because of this im very angry at it all.if they put rules on p r then they should stand behind it all.other wise all people will do this.they will marry to get in and as soon as they get there pr they will leave.i was blindsided he seemed liked the niceiest guy ever everyone liked him.then when he got what he wanted he leaves.we bought a 25,000.00 travel trailor in may and in july he says he has been cheating.the trailor is in both names as I signed thinking he loved me.now he is registered owner and I cant use it or insure it.i now have to make payments on it.i think at least immagration should at least make him pay back to me.if they say he cant stay.
Any money owed to you is not an immigration issue. It is unrealistic for you to expect that CIC will do anything about this. CIC doesn't have this kind of authority.

If you feel there is money owed to you then you should be pursuing this through the appropriate legal channels. I would recommend that you meet with a lawyer specializing in Family Law.
 

kepi

Full Member
Aug 8, 2014
35
0
scylla said:
Any money owed to you is not an immigration issue. It is unrealistic for you to expect that CIC will do anything about this. CIC doesn't have this kind of authority.

If you feel there is money owed to you then you should be pursuing this through the appropriate legal channels. I would recommend that you meet with a lawyer specializing in Family Law.
 

kepi

Full Member
Aug 8, 2014
35
0
I get that.the thing is there is a condition 51.so why put on there if they are not going to stand but the rule.its 2 years and there is proof he is not in the marrage.seems to me there is more protection fir the pr not the canadian
 

scylla

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kepi said:
I get that.the thing is there is a condition 51.so why put on there if they are not going to stand but the rule.its 2 years and there is proof he is not in the marrage.seems to me there is more protection fir the pr not the canadian
I'm not sure why you are jumping to the massive conclusion that CIC is not going to stand by the rules they have made. It takes time for CIC to investigate when a Condition 51 infraction is reported before they take action. They aren't going to remove someone from Canada in a few days or weeks just based on someone else's word. The evidence may seem obviously to you - however CIC has minimum requirements they need to meet before they can begin removal proceedings. And yes - there is absolutely protection for you. Condition 51 is one such protection. And again, if you have been impacted financially, then you need to be speaking with a family lawyer. Having said that, there is also an element of personal accountability here. CIC is not your babysitter and you were the one who chose to bring your spouse to Canada. You have to accept at least some personal responsibility for this situation. We all take on this responsibility when we sponsor someone (myself included).
 

keesio

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Sometimes I really feel for CIC. Condition 51 is one of those cases. When it first came out, there was a lot of criticism against it, saying that it creates a a bunch of "second class" PRs, forces new PRs to be in abusive relationships to hang on to their PR, puts restrictions on living arrangements (PR and sponsor must live together), etc.. there have been a lot of complaints that it is unfair. Then you see the flip side where CIC is getting criticized for not enforcing Condition 51 soon enough, for being to lax on enforcement, not looking out for the sponsor, etc.
 

scylla

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keesio said:
Sometimes I really feel for CIC. Condition 51 is one of those cases. When it first came out, there was a lot of criticism against it, saying that it creates a a bunch of "second class" PRs, forces new PRs to be in abusive relationships to hang on to their PR, puts restrictions on living arrangements (PR and sponsor must live together), etc.. there have been a lot of complaints that it is unfair. Then you see the flip side where CIC is getting criticized for not enforcing Condition 51 soon enough, for being to lax on enforcement, not looking out for the sponsor, etc.
100% agree.

It's no different than when people whine about how much evidence you have to provide to prove your relationship is real and say that they should be able to bring whoever they want to Canada without government involvement - and then come back later and complain the government didn't do their job to properly vet their partner when the relationship goes south afterwards.

As we sometimes say at work, people need to "put on their big boy pants". We are adults making adult decisions when we sponsor.