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November 2017 - Citizenship Applicants

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,307
3,067
What if today, I have 1102 days actual days in Canada after including all my trips in the calculator. Can I still "update" this ongoing application or do I have to withdraw it an reaplly, lose the fee and wait seven more months, redo the test to get in this phase ?
For this application to have any chance of success you need to have been physically present at least 1095 days within the preceding five years AS OF THE DAY THE APPLICATION WAS MADE.

If you made errors in the physical presence calculation you submitted with the application, or there are errors in IRCC's conclusions about the number of days you were present, YES, you can update the application to correct those errors. And if after correcting all the errors, you calculate that AS OF THE DAY THE APPLICATION WAS MADE you had been physically present in Canada for 1102 days within the preceding five years, of that date, you can require IRCC to continue processing your application.

In this event, if IRCC disagrees with your calculation, and concludes that there is a possibility you did not meet the minimum physical presence requirement, the application would then go to a Citizenship Judge who will decide the facts. If the CJ concludes you were physically present 1102 days AS OF THE DAY THE APPLICATION WAS MADE, and you meet all the other requirements, the CJ will approve your application and then IRCC can decide whether to schedule you for the oath or to appeal the CJ's decision to the Federal Court (IRCC has a right of appeal).

If it goes to the CJ and the CJ does NOT conclude you have submitted adequate proof you were physically present at least 1095 days, AS OF THE DAY THE APPLICATION WAS MADE, the CJ will deny approval. Applicants do not have a right of appeal, but they can make an application to the Federal Court seeking leave to obtain judicial review.


My impression, and it is apparent others have responded based on this interpretation of your query, is that what you are really asking is whether you can update the application to ADD days physically present in Canada for days you have been in Canada since the date you applied. NO. No, you cannot change the date for calculating your physical presence. The date the presence calculation is based on is the date the application is made. Days in or out of Canada after that date do NOT figure into the calculation.



If as of TODAY you have been actually physically present in Canada for 1102 days, within the preceding five years, that would meet the physical presence calculation as of today. If as of today you otherwise meet all the other requirements, you are eligible to apply for citizenship. 1102 days is cutting-it-close, not leaving much of a margin, especially for a frequent traveler, but if you can definitively, for certain, identify every travel date precisely accurately, you could APPLY AGAIN TODAY. You do not need to withdraw the other application first. But if you were to do this, to apply again now, you will want to submit the request to withdraw the first application soon, just to avoid confusion (IRCC could, for example, put the second application on hold pending the outcome of the first).

I do not know what the "seven more months" is about.


REMINDER:

The operative information underlying your query is not complicated. Since June 11, 2015 Canada has adopted a strict physical presence requirement as a qualifying element for grant citizenship. The minimum number of days was reduced to 1095 as of October 11, 2017. There are some wrinkles in how days are counted, such as the current allowance of half-day credits for pre-PR days PHYSICALLY PRESENT in Canada (within the five year eligibility period, subject to a maximum credit of 365 days), and such as the current policy to count a day as a day physically present in Canada if any part of the calendar day was physically spent IN CANADA (thus, the day an individual leaves Canada, and the day the individual returns to Canada, both count as days IN Canada).

That is, what is clear, what is certain, is that for a day to in any way count, the applicant must have been PHYSICALLY PRESENT in Canada for at least some part of that day, and (per current law) that day must be within the FIVE years preceding the date the application was made.

He is a truck driver, indeed. So, can I call it discrimination ? Because of the job that I am doing I am being discriminated. I pay taxes on all days worked in the US as a truck driver to the Canadian goverment. And the worst part is that if you ask CBSA they tell you that those days will count as spent in Canada. Waiting to see what MP can do about it. There are thowsends, like me, doing this job, and not aware of how the job is going to impact the application. What options do we have ? Quit the job and do what ? It's nonsense.
The days you are traveling in the U.S. pursuant to an assignment by your Canadian employer do count toward days present in Canada FOR THE PURPOSE OF COMPLIANCE WITH THE PR RESIDENCY OBLIGATION. Unfortunately many are confused by the difference between what counts for citizenship and what counts for meeting the PR RO. The job of CBSA officers screening traveling PRs is to check for PR RO compliance. So, for a CBSA officer, the days count. CBSA officers have no role in assessing qualifications for citizenship (albeit, to be clear, their records can be and often are accessed and considered by IRCC personnel handling a citizenship application).

I do not understand the discrimination argument. Since June 11, 2015 the law governing requirements for citizenship have been clear in regards to imposing a minimum physical presence requirement. This applies to everyone, to all PRs, except those engaged in certain Crown Service abroad and members of the military.

There are policy arguments about the fairness of a strict physical presence requirement. And, in contrast, for several decades there was instead a residency requirement pursuant to which a Citizenship Judge could give credit for days abroad so long as the applicant maintained residency in Canada and the applicant's life was centralized in Canada. BUT that approach tended to be unevenly applied and was widely criticized, and the resounding consensus was that a strict physical presence requirement would be more fair . . . even though, as with all qualifying criteria under law, the effect would result in extra hardship for some . . . international airline personnel, truck and bus drivers, off-shore oil rig workers, some sales representatives with international clients, among others.

In any event, Parliament considered the policies involved and implemented a strict physical presence requirement. Even though this did not actually happen until June 2015, it was long-known, and widely known, this was coming, as many Federal Court justices were loudly clamouring for it for a long time, a physical presence requirement was set out in formally tabled legislation at least a decade earlier, and when the Harper government got a majority government in 2011 this was a priority in their platform. What the liberals did, when they got a majority government, and effective as of last October, was to mitigate the harshest aspects of what the Harper government implemented, by reducing the minimum requirement (to 1095 rather than 1460 days) and allowing for a more liberal ratio of time abroad to time in Canada (current law will allow PRs to become eligible for citizenship even if they spend up to forty percent of their time abroad). The general consensus in Canada is that this version is actually quite liberal if not outright generous.

In any event, the current law will allow international airline personnel and truck drivers with regular routes into the U.S. to qualify for citizenship as long as they are not absent more than approximately 140 days a year. That is plenty to accommodate routes almost exclusively into the U.S. assuming a pattern similar to relatively standard work-weeks, holidays, and vacation time. This is actually more generous than the old residency requirements, since under those a CJ could still impose a strict presence requirement and essentially preclude a truck driver from ever qualifying if he or she was driving in the states more than 60 to 90 days a year. Under that law, the PR would get one day less credit for each trip, since there was credit only for days leaving or days returning, not both . . . so if the PR made 40 overnight trips a year into the U.S., that was 40 less days credit than the trucker now gets, so just 32 three night trips into the U.S. annually would drop the trucker below EVER qualifying . . . whereas now a trucker could make more than 40 FOUR night trips into the U.S. per year and still qualify.

So, for a trucker with regular cross-border routes, it takes longer to meet the minimum than it will for someone whose employment is entirely in Canada. But the path is there.


Edit to clarify old residency requirement comparison:

To be clear, even though old the law allowed credit for residency that was totally discretionary. CIC and CJs could impose a strict presence test under the old residency requirement. And that was a 3/4 rule, so a total absence of 366 days in the four relevant years would preclude eligibility. And for every trip, either the day leaving or the day returning counted as a day absent. For frequent travelers (like truck and bus drivers with U.S. routes), those days added up.
 
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HLR

Champion Member
May 28, 2013
1,341
267
Share my time line, live in Oakville

We received your application for Canadian citizenship (grant of citizenship) on November 9, 2017.
We sent you correspondence acknowledging receipt of your application(s), and a study book called Discover Canada on December 29, 2017.
We started processing your application on January 26, 2018.
We sent you a notice on April 25, 2018 to appear and write the citizenship test on May 17, 2018 at 8:50 AM. The notice you will receive by mail will be your official confirmation of your appointment. If you have not received this notice prior to the date of your scheduled appointment, please contact us.
Added you to the Nov sheet, good luck
 

YYZ2017

Star Member
Nov 10, 2017
83
28
He is a truck driver, indeed. So, can I call it discrimination ? Because of the job that I am doing I am being discriminated. I pay taxes on all days worked in the US as a truck driver to the Canadian goverment. And the worst part is that if you ask CBSA they tell you that those days will count as spent in Canada. Waiting to see what MP can do about it. There are thowsends, like me, doing this job, and not aware of how the job is going to impact the application. What options do we have ? Quit the job and do what ? It's nonsense.
Your frustration is palpable and understandable. Its not about truck driving and discrimination, one of my friends works for a top consulting firm and has to live out of a suitcase 3 days a week sometime 4 in US at the client site. He pays taxes too, but his days are not completed, so he is waiting. Been a PR since ages, but as another member pointed out, if you work for the crown or armed forces or are their spouse, then only they consider. Else immigration minister can also waive off remaining days if the case has merit such as emergency travel and no passport in case of refugee claimants etc. or job requiring Canadian citizenship.

As far as I have heard from friends, once you get a RQ or request a challenge of decision, it takes 2-3 years as there are I think 3 citizenship judges for whole of Ontario and they also have to conduct oath ceremonies etc. Take decision accordingly and just keep track of each and every day in a diary and a buffer of 30 days. Rules are clear on it and were amended to weed out citizens of convenience some of whom have not even stayed even half the required time, but genuine people also get caught in the bureaucracy. Hold on tightly.
 

egghead

Star Member
Sep 29, 2016
137
84
One thing seems pretty certain about the processing of apps - single applicants move more quickly. My wife and I should have applied separately.
 

ZingyDNA

Champion Member
Aug 12, 2013
1,252
185
Category........
Visa Office......
CPP-Ottawa
NOC Code......
2111
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-06-2013
AOR Received.
28-08-2013
IELTS Request
Sent with Application
Med's Request
21-02-2014 (principal applicant)
Med's Done....
07-03-2014 (both, upfront for spouse)
Passport Req..
10-04-2014
VISA ISSUED...
22-04-2014
LANDED..........
13-06-2014
One thing seems pretty certain about the processing of apps - single applicants move more quickly. My wife and I should have applied separately.
Oh I don't know about that. I applied as single applicant and I'm not moving faster than family applications in my area lol. If a family application gets delayed, its' because at least one applicant has issues and delays the rest, and that one applicant would have experienced the same delay if applied as single. Besides, they might still group you and your wife together even if you apply separately, unless one of you wait a long time after the other applies..
 

benjis_monikuss

Hero Member
Nov 21, 2013
280
45
123
In the forrests of BC
Category........
Visa Office......
Sydney- Australia
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
03-12-2013
Doc's Request.
19-01-2014
AOR Received.
28-12-2013
File Transfer...
13-01-2014
Med's Done....
19-11-2013
Interview........
Waived
Passport Req..
24-02-2014
VISA ISSUED...
27-02-2014
LANDED..........
09-03-2014
One thing seems pretty certain about the processing of apps - single applicants move more quickly. My wife and I should have applied separately.
I don't know if I agree with this either. I'm now beyond standard wait times for my region for IP to test invite and at the super frustrating point of watching people who went into process in my region AFTER me getting test and oath. My application is simple, well exceeded the required days, barely any trips out of Canada, never so much as had a speeding ticket. Wish they'd sent my file to Vancouver instead of Surrey where the processing time seems to be almost half.
 

mosaab

Hero Member
Oct 12, 2011
553
120
Category........
Visa Office......
Cairo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
20-03-2013
AOR Received.
26-06-2013
File Transfer...
05-07-2013
Med's Done....
18-05-2013
Interview........
waived
Passport Req..
06-01-2014
VISA ISSUED...
03-16-2014
LANDED..........
05-02-2014
One thing seems pretty certain about the processing of apps - single applicants move more quickly. My wife and I should have applied separately.
I'm a single applicant, it took 6 months to DM. I saw family apps moved faster than mine. In my opinion its all about where your app is and sometimes about the officer's mood
 

Joe2013

Star Member
Jan 8, 2013
60
0
Added you to the ss. Can you provide the following info

Is your app a single or a family app? how many days in the eligibility period?

Toronto is a bit slow depending on where the application is processed. you will find the SS information up to date with test invites and location information.
Sorry for the delay.

Single application.
1,754 days

Where can I found the SS?

Thank you for now.
 

Suhel

Member
Jun 14, 2013
11
0
Hello
I applied citizenship in nov 2017 and file is in process since feb1, 2018 and i am still waiting for test . Can someone tell me what to do ? I live in grande prairie, alberta
 

mosaab

Hero Member
Oct 12, 2011
553
120
Category........
Visa Office......
Cairo
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
20-03-2013
AOR Received.
26-06-2013
File Transfer...
05-07-2013
Med's Done....
18-05-2013
Interview........
waived
Passport Req..
06-01-2014
VISA ISSUED...
03-16-2014
LANDED..........
05-02-2014
Hello
I applied citizenship in nov 2017 and file is in process since feb1, 2018 and i am still waiting for test . Can someone tell me what to do ? I live in grande prairie, alberta
I guess nothing, just wait!
I think your local office is Edmonton, right! Usually, it does not process the files fast, but the good thing I think you get the test and oath at the same day ( not too sure ).
If you try to contact IRCC, they will tell you that the processing time is 12 months and your app is being under process. Mine was IP since Jan 03 and I did the test just last Thursday. Good luck
 

liwei8759

Star Member
Apr 18, 2011
51
2
Category........
Visa Office......
Buffalo transferred to Ottawa
NOC Code......
N/A
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
XX-05-2011
Doc's Request.
N/A
Nomination.....
xx-06-2011
AOR Received.
21-03-2012
IELTS Request
N/A
File Transfer...
11-07-2012
Med's Request
23-03-2012
Med's Done....
02-04-2012
Interview........
N/A
Passport Req..
22-03-2013
VISA ISSUED...
Not Yet
Not normal
People after u passed test u still not
Call them
Thank you for replying! What would be the best number and time to reach them?

Thanks again!