Marriage Fraud Investigation

[newbee1]

Yes he had condition 51

 

[keesio]

Good to hear Condition 51 actually doing what it is meant to do. Maybe after a few more cases like this and all the haters of the condition will back off.

 

[SenoritaBella]

I very much doubt that. The condition worked in this case, where the applicant left within weeks and I support it.

The problem is with cases where the sponsor initiates the break up, uses it as a bargaining chip or behaves poorly(e.g. cheating) and the applicant leaves. I don't think it's fair in those situations to deport the applicant. The applicant would have given up a good paying job(in some cases), sold house, etc to move. Deporting him/her means they are left to start over and the Canadian sponsor "gets out" of paying spousal/child support which they would normally have to pay if immigration wasn't a factor or if the applicant is more wealthy, there is no way to enforce child/spousal support payments. In that case, taxpayers are footing the bill.

I also don't believe the role of immigration is to prosecute non-immigration related offences or family law(i.e. cases where there is no immigration fraud, misrepresentation, etc). A relationship can break down due to irreconcilable differences. But because one person immigrated as a spouse, there is automatically an immigration consequence attached to it.

What if children are born after landing in the first year of the relationship but it ends before 2 yrs? Deporting means one parent is separated from their child, another situation where I don't believe the powers that be have thought through. What about the best interests of the child(ren)? Who gets custody - the Canadian sponsor or the applicant? Will immigration stipulate that the parent who has the child and can afford it travel each year so the child spends time with the other parent? This is where Family Court comes in, they have the expertise to deal with such situations, not CIC/CBSA.

Something I find lacking to an extent in society is personal accountability. People are grown up or "have rights" when they go about making big decisions. But when it backfires, there is little ownership of what role they played in it. Then gov't steps in, in knee-jerk fashion and implements laws to appease a few. Some sponsors on the forum have admitted in hindsight that they dismissed the warning signs.

Good to hear Condition 51 actually doing what it is meant to do. Maybe after a few more cases like this and all the haters of the condition will back off.

 

[steerpike]

Good to hear Condition 51 actually doing what it is meant to do. Maybe after a few more cases like this and all the haters of the condition will back off.

You can also crack an egg with a sledge hammer. That doesn't mean its the best tool for the job.

 

[mikeymyke]

Condition 51 babyyyyyyyyyyy

 

[newbee1]

Well the logic here is that someone who spent so much money and went back home to marry someone and then waited almost 1 year for their spouse why would there be a reason to doubt their genuinity. The other spouse anyways did not had capability to enter the country on their own it was only due to their sponser that they entered the country and if they leave or cheat their spouse they cannot be forced to live with the person who got them here but what GIVES THEM A RIGHT TO STAY IN THE COUNTRY????


And if there is a child anyways condition 51 does not apply. I am in very much in favour of this condition because I have suffered and I feel the pain of everyone who gets played on cheated on.
I think all Canadians should encourage this rule unless you are supporting the Fruadsters.

 

[SenoritaBella]

@ newbee1, your husband's situation is very different from what I referred to in my post. I don't have a problem with condition 51 when it works as intended like it did in your case. Your husband ran away almost right away, so he was using you.

But I'm talking about cases where the sponsored person is not using the sponsor. That is, the sponsor cheated, etc and even abandoned the sponsored spouse. Why should the spouse be deported in that case? Rules are good but sometimes rules meant to catch predators also trap good people. So my concern is for those good people trapped by this law. It's hard to know how this will work in such a case, but I suspect a good lawyer will argue these points as well. Not everyone who is sponsored has no capability to enter the country on their own. I know people whose spouses have good jobs back home, are not even interested in coming to Canada eventhough they could come under the skilled worker program. They are coming just because they are married to someone that lives here. What if they sold their house, cars, business to move to Canada and their Canadian sponsor leaves before 2 yrs. Do you think it's fair to deport such a person?

The other interesting thing about condition 51 is, it only ensures that the fraudster waits for 2 yrs. After that, they get their full PR and can still leave you. In that case, was this person ever genuine or did they play the game well enough? Did condition 51 work or not? As you can see, the responsibility for choosing a great life partner is still our(sponsors') responsibility not the gov't's.

 

[computergeek]

I have to agree with SenoritaBella on this one: Condition 51 is a dangerous tool. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't.

As a result of this thread, I went back and carefully re-read the CIC post about children. What is says is that if there is a child before the application is received that Condition 51 doesn't apply. Imagine a situation in which CIC drags out the case for years and during that time a child is born. The Canadian parent could terminate the non-Canadian's parental rights effectively simply by ending the relationship. While the non-Canadian parent would still have legal rights, it would likely be all but impossible to enforce them.

 

[screech339]

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/07/31/b-c-lawyer-sues-vietnamese-bride-for-ditching-him-one-week-after-he-helped-her-move-to-canada/

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/08/01/bc-lawyer-sues-bride-canadia-visa_n_5638365.html

The links provided shows how marriage fraud can happen and one of the reasons conditional PR is needed. Had the sponsored wife had known about the conditional clause, she probably wouldn't go through with the marriage as she would have lost her PR status shortly after.

Screech339

 

[JustMarried81]

My wife sponsored me with family class. I got approved sometime in Jan after 7 months of waiting for the application out of Paris.

I landed here 2 months ago. First weekend the wife kicks me out, then comes and visits me at the hotel with all her time after work. She is very bi-polar and it's not getting any better. She says I don't show love and want to provide for her. So I got an apartment for the both of us and paid 1 year ahead of time just to get it because I don't have a job in the country. Already settled in and got a bunch of furniture paid already brand new.

One minute she is find, then the next minute she flips out on me for no reason. Then cries then she's fine then cries I'm like really out of it.

Then the abuse I get from her with the words makes it really hard for me to do anything. I wonder if I can get my money back for the 1 year paid in full at my place and try to sell off my new furniture. Plus she only comes here on the weekends to sleep cause it's very noise by our place with traffic and she is a very light sleeper yet always some kind of a abuse/fight breaks out. I don't even say anything at all because I know how she is and her mom is on medication for mood changes to keep her stable. She told me last night she wanted to take medication to be stable that it might help then says it's only around me. Yet her mom said she is like this with her also. I'm just to the point where If I had a rope yeah I'd end it. I don't even know how much money I blew on this since we started dating $40k+ and now all gone and done for. I wish I knew the future for the 6 months ahead in life but we don't.

I plan on going to city hall today to file for a divorce, because she says that's what she wants then she changes her mind then back again etc. I can't stay here because you have to be married for 2 years. But when I do file for this divorce. I'd like to sell off everything and try to get my 10 months prepaid for my place already. How much time do I have before I got to pack up and leave Canada?

Thank you.

 

[Awesomeg]

My wife sponsored me with family class. I got approved sometime in Jan after 7 months of waiting for the application out of Paris.

I landed here 2 months ago. First weekend the wife kicks me out, then comes and visits me at the hotel with all her time after work. She is very bi-polar and it's not getting any better. She says I don't show love and want to provide for her. So I got an apartment for the both of us and paid 1 year ahead of time just to get it because I don't have a job in the country. Already settled in and got a bunch of furniture paid already brand new.

One minute she is find, then the next minute she flips out on me for no reason. Then cries then she's fine then cries I'm like really out of it.

Then the abuse I get from her with the words makes it really hard for me to do anything. I wonder if I can get my money back for the 1 year paid in full at my place and try to sell off my new furniture. Plus she only comes here on the weekends to sleep cause it's very noise by our place with traffic and she is a very light sleeper yet always some kind of a abuse/fight breaks out. I don't even say anything at all because I know how she is and her mom is on medication for mood changes to keep her stable. She told me last night she wanted to take medication to be stable that it might help then says it's only around me. Yet her mom said she is like this with her also. I'm just to the point where If I had a rope yeah I'd end it. I don't even know how much money I blew on this since we started dating $40k+ and now all gone and done for. I wish I knew the future for the 6 months ahead in life but we don't.

I plan on going to city hall today to file for a divorce, because she says that's what she wants then she changes her mind then back again etc. I can't stay here because you have to be married for 2 years. But when I do file for this divorce. I'd like to sell off everything and try to get my 10 months prepaid for my place already. How much time do I have before I got to pack up and leave Canada?

Thank you.

Your situation is difficult, and if you believe that you don't have enough love for her to understand her changing mood is better to split,
it takes much love to understand and be with someone with mental health problems... I know couples where the husband had to deal with it...
and they stay Together... but looks like yours is not the case... needs lots of love...
Divorce in Canada takes long... mine took almost 4 years... but it may take longer...
you don't need to give up your place and furniture...
just need to re arrange your life and move ahead... you don't need to leave Canada also,
you have valid reasons to split.... I can see from your statement's that you tried to make it work...
you can apply for divorce but need to get to the end of the process which may take time...
meanwhile, try to find a job in Canada.. that will help you also to settle and to begin to have a normal life here...
it doesn't matter if you work in your intended field ... a work is a work....
the fact that you did not last the 2 years wont affect your status in Canada unless Immigration decides to make an
investigation, but that is unlikely... and if they do, you can explain the situation... meanwhile keep all documents
that may prove your point...
Canada is a great country, you are already here, you may want to try to stay here...

 

[SenoritaBella]

As for your apartment, all you need to do is give the landlord at least 3 months written notice(since you signed on for 1 year), and in the letter request a refund of the balance of your rent money(hope you have a receipt of this payment). I believe the landlord has a specific period of time during which they must return your damage deposit(plus any interest, if this applies in your province) and also this balance of your rent. Check online for "residential tenancy act" specific to your province, so you know your rights. Normally, the landlord will schedule an inspection, check the apartment for any damages, whether carpets have been cleaned, etc. If there are no issues, you should get your damage deposit(which is usually half of the first month's rent) in full.

Example: if you plan to move out Dec 31st(at the latest), then you need to give written notice no later than Sep 1st. Sorry about your situation and hope all goes well for you going forward.

Like Awesomeg, I don't believe you need to leave Canada. You can stay(you have permanent residence status) unless the gov't says otherwise and they will let you know. If they decide to investigate your status, you can explain the situation about your relationship(which you clearly state involves abuse). There is a clause in the 2-yr conditional PR rule which grants exemptions for people who have suffered some type of abuse in their relationship and it was the reason for relationship breakdown.

 

[JustMarried81]

Your situation is difficult, and if you believe that you don't have enough love for her to understand her changing mood is better to split,
it takes much love to understand and be with someone with mental health problems... I know couples where the husband had to deal with it...
and they stay Together... but looks like yours is not the case... needs lots of love...
Divorce in Canada takes long... mine took almost 4 years... but it may take longer...
you don't need to give up your place and furniture...
just need to re arrange your life and move ahead... you don't need to leave Canada also,
you have valid reasons to split.... I can see from your statement's that you tried to make it work...
you can apply for divorce but need to get to the end of the process which may take time...
meanwhile, try to find a job in Canada.. that will help you also to settle and to begin to have a normal life here...
it doesn't matter if you work in your intended field ... a work is a work....
the fact that you did not last the 2 years wont affect your status in Canada unless Immigration decides to make an
investigation, but that is unlikely... and if they do, you can explain the situation... meanwhile keep all documents
that may prove your point...
Canada is a great country, you are already here, you may want to try to stay here...

I do have love but I can't take it I can't stand when she cries. So it's why I'm doing what she asks me to do also. I'd love to be with her. I even told her come to Europe with me before we got with each other to stay here for a few years. She didn't want to because she went to school for accounting and wanted to spend her time working because she owes money for this loan from school and work it off.

And the last few weeks she talks about ending her life. It's why I'm going to file for divorce then. I don't want anyone to die.

When I came to Canada in May the immigration officer had this thing for me to sign stating I need to be married for 2 years or else my PR would be taken away. I didn't pay much attention on this part because I didn't think anything bad would really happen you know?

 

[JustMarried81]

As for your apartment, all you need to do is give the landlord at least 3 months written notice(since you signed on for 1 year), and in the letter request a refund of the balance of your rent money(hope you have a receipt of this payment). I believe the landlord has a specific period of time during which they must return your damage deposit(plus any interest, if this applies in your province) and also this balance of your rent. Check online for "residential tenancy act" specific to your province, so you know your rights. Normally, the landlord will schedule an inspection, check the apartment for any damages, whether carpets have been cleaned, etc. If there are no issues, you should get your damage deposit(which is usually half of the first month's rent) in full.

Example: if you plan to move out Dec 31st(at the latest), then you need to give written notice no later than Sep 1st. Sorry about your situation and hope all goes well for you going forward.

Like Awesomeg, I don't believe you need to leave Canada. You can stay(you have permanent residence status) unless the gov't says otherwise and they will let you know. If they decide to investigate your status, you can explain the situation about your relationship(which you clearly state involves abuse). There is a clause in the 2-yr conditional PR rule which grants exemptions for people who have suffered some type of abuse in their relationship and it was the reason for relationship breakdown.

I paid her 1 year in full already 2 months ago the first weekend I was here I paid by check.

The abuse is just her talking and saying things to me. I don't think it's that much I just said abuse to you guys because that's what it is to me. In the eyes of the LAW it's not a big deal. And yes IO said to sign this agreement for 2 years or else I lose my PR. When I try to reapply.

 

[on-hold]

I very much doubt that. The condition worked in this case, where the applicant left within weeks and I support it.

The problem is with cases where the sponsor initiates the break up, uses it as a bargaining chip or behaves poorly(e.g. cheating) and the applicant leaves. I don't think it's fair in those situations to deport the applicant. The applicant would have given up a good paying job(in some cases), sold house, etc to move. Deporting him/her means they are left to start over and the Canadian sponsor "gets out" of paying spousal/child support which they would normally have to pay if immigration wasn't a factor or if the applicant is more wealthy, there is no way to enforce child/spousal support payments. In that case, taxpayers are footing the bill.

I also don't believe the role of immigration is to prosecute non-immigration related offences or family law(i.e. cases where there is no immigration fraud, misrepresentation, etc). A relationship can break down due to irreconcilable differences. But because one person immigrated as a spouse, there is automatically an immigration consequence attached to it.

What if children are born after landing in the first year of the relationship but it ends before 2 yrs? Deporting means one parent is separated from their child, another situation where I don't believe the powers that be have thought through. What about the best interests of the child(ren)? Who gets custody - the Canadian sponsor or the applicant? Will immigration stipulate that the parent who has the child and can afford it travel each year so the child spends time with the other parent? This is where Family Court comes in, they have the expertise to deal with such situations, not CIC/CBSA.

Something I find lacking to an extent in society is personal accountability. People are grown up or "have rights" when they go about making big decisions. But when it backfires, there is little ownership of what role they played in it. Then gov't steps in, in knee-jerk fashion and implements laws to appease a few. Some sponsors on the forum have admitted in hindsight that they dismissed the warning signs.

There are two conditions that can really exacerbate this issue: when the foreign partner has a radically different idea of the duties each person has within the marriage, and when the Canadian partner has an unrealistic idea of the foreign partner's approach to marriage. The first can make the foreign partner feel like they have been tricked, and the second can make the Canadian partner decide that their (usually 'his') new spouse is acting inappropriately.

The classic instance of the second is the common Western belief that Asian women are subservient. This is a bit of a funny cliche to anyone with a modicum of education -- but there are a lot of people who believe it, and there is a particular type of paranoid, abusive, MRA who has decided that Western women have been 'spoiled' but Asian women are 'natural'. This is also the kind of person who can be very difficult to live with, and who is ineffective at maintaining and growing a relationship. They can marry quickly, in the belief that a Thai or a Filipina bride is somehow 'safe'; and when they find out that she is actually a human, not some sort of automaton trained to serve men by her culture, they can be quite pissy.

This is obviously a stereotype -- but after living in SE Asia and seeing the stereotype drinking in bars and having wives run away as quickly as they can, one accepts that it does describe a certain percentage of the population.

The bride, on her part, comes from a culture where marriage often does not have a long courtship, and where the institution of dowry is very similar to the financial element that often exists in marriages like this. She has an idea of respecting her husband; but this comes with conditions attached to his behaviour as well, and often the idea that she controls the household, the finances, and often the husband. She may not realize the weird ideas that her husband has about her.

I don't see that empowering the husband in this situation is fair to the wife, and agree with the previous opinion that immigration law should not be used to limit or comment on family law, particularly where the results for the foreign partner can be damaging in a life-destroying manner. In a way, this is a matter of CIC failing to perform its own due diligence, and taking it out on the foreign partner. I think the 'buyer beware' provision, in which the sponsor is on the hook for three years, is a very fair option.

It's easy to find instances where this provision works as intended -- it would be hard to craft a law that has no good outcomes, ever. What matters to me is the instances where it has a very cruel outcome, or empowers an abusive partner, or forcibly divides a family in a manner that essentially 'deparents' one parent or leaves the children in a bad situation. I don't think anyone thinks that immigration law -- with its threats of deportation and exclusion -- is a useful instrument for custody disputes.