Is this allowable under these PR conditions?

[chs2yyc]

Good Evening,

My wife is a PR and her PR has the status that we reside in a conjugal relationship for a period of 2 continuous years from the date she became a PR.

Thus far we have met this obligation, and have 6 months until the 2 year period is over.

My wife is from the U.S. and she wants to go visit her family. She never ever gets to see them so a long trip (including our son) is we think a good idea.

We would still be married, and all aspects of our life (finances, social, etc) would still be shared.

Is this allowable with her PR status obligations?

Thanks,

**Please do not answer this question if:

1. You are going to be rude

2. You are going to tell me to call applicable government agencies. I know I need to call and plan on it.

 

[CanV]

Good Evening,

My wife is a PR and her PR has the status that we reside in a conjugal relationship for a period of 2 continuous years from the date she became a PR.

Thus far we have met this obligation, and have 6 months until the 2 year period is over.

My wife is from the U.S. and she wants to go visit her family. She never ever gets to see them so a long trip (including our son) is we think a good idea.

We would still be married, and all aspects of our life (finances, social, etc) would still be shared.

Is this allowable with her PR status obligations?

Thanks,

**Please do not answer this question if:

1. You are going to be rude

2. You are going to tell me to call applicable government agencies. I know I need to call and plan on it.

She can leave and come back whenever she wants. They arent concerned with people like you, you even have a kid together. They are looking for sham marriages, which yours is in no way is.

 

[kwyatt75]

Good Evening,

My wife is a PR and her PR has the status that we reside in a conjugal relationship for a period of 2 continuous years from the date she became a PR.

Thus far we have met this obligation, and have 6 months until the 2 year period is over.

My wife is from the U.S. and she wants to go visit her family. She never ever gets to see them so a long trip (including our son) is we think a good idea.

We would still be married, and all aspects of our life (finances, social, etc) would still be shared.

Is this allowable with her PR status obligations?

Thanks,

**Please do not answer this question if:

1. You are going to be rude

2. You are going to tell me to call applicable government agencies. I know I need to call and plan on it.

In order for your PR wife to meet the residency obligation to maintain her PR, she must be physically present in Canada for a minimum of 730 days within the past five (5) years. Alternatively if she has been a PR for less than 5 years (as it seems may be the case based on your talk about the continuous relationship for 2 years), when she goes to renew her PR card before it expires, she must be able to show that she will be able to meet the minimum of 730 days of physical presence in Canada within five (5) years of the date she became a permanent resident. So if the in the 2 year period you mention she has not left Canada at all, then 365*2=730 and she will have already met the minimum days required to be in Canada. Be sure you have evidence to back up her days.

Two Questions:
1. Are you a Canadian Citizen or a PR?
2. Are you going to travel to the US with her?

It could make a difference. She may count each day that she accompanied a Canadian citizen outside Canada provided that the person she accompanied is her spouse, common-law partner or parent (if you are a child under 19 years of age). So if you are a Canadian Citizen, the time she is outside of Canada with you can also count towards satisfying the 730 day residency obligation.

Source: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/5445ETOC.asp#appendixA

Hope this helps,

kwyatt75

 

[CanV]

In order for your PR wife to meet the residency obligation to maintain her PR, she must be physically present in Canada for a minimum of 730 days within the past five (5) years. Alternatively if she has been a PR for less than 5 years (as it seems may be the case based on your talk about the continuous relationship for 2 years), when she goes to renew her PR card before it expires, she must be able to show that she will be able to meet the minimum of 730 days of physical presence in Canada within five (5) years of the date she became a permanent resident. So if the in the 2 year period you mention she has not left Canada at all, then 365*2=730 and she will have already met the minimum days required to be in Canada. Be sure you have evidence to back up her days.

Two Questions:
1. Are you a Canadian Citizen or a PR?
2. Are you going to travel to the US with her?

It could make a difference. She may count each day that she accompanied a Canadian citizen outside Canada provided that the person she accompanied is her spouse, common-law partner or parent (if you are a child under 19 years of age). So if you are a Canadian Citizen, the time she is outside of Canada with you can also count towards satisfying the 730 day residency obligation.

Source: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/5445ETOC.asp#appendixA

Hope this helps,

kwyatt75

?????

 

[zardoz]

Good Evening,

My wife is a PR and her PR has the status that we reside in a conjugal relationship for a period of 2 continuous years from the date she became a PR.

Thus far we have met this obligation, and have 6 months until the 2 year period is over.

My wife is from the U.S. and she wants to go visit her family. She never ever gets to see them so a long trip (including our son) is we think a good idea.

We would still be married, and all aspects of our life (finances, social, etc) would still be shared.

Is this allowable with her PR status obligations?

Thanks,

**Please do not answer this question if:

1. You are going to be rude

2. You are going to tell me to call applicable government agencies. I know I need to call and plan on it.

It depends on just how long the visit is going to be and how you would justify her absence if you should receive a random CIC checkup. 3 weeks, not an issue. 6 months, they are going to ask questions. In all honesty though, the risks are minimal under your circumstances.

 

[zardoz]

?????

Agreed..

 

[kwyatt75]

Agreed..

Not sure why the two of you are confused. For Permanent Residents there is a residency obligation that you be physically present in Canada for at least 730 days in the 5 years prior or you could lose your PR status. You do not lose your permanent resident status if your PR card expires...even if you don't meet the residency obligation, you don't automatically lose your status. However, in order to go in and out of Canada you must have a PR card. If your card expires and you have to apply for a new one you have to be able to prove that you were physically present for at least 730 days in the 5 years prior to your application. If you do not meet that obligation when you apply for a new PR card you may be subject to an inquiry. If as a result, a visa officer or adjudicator determines you do not meet the required residency requirement you may lose your PR status.

Sources:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/5445ETOC.asp#appendixA (As mentioned in my first post) and,

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/newcomers/about-pr.asp

 

[zardoz]

Not sure why the two of you are confused. For Permanent Residents there is a residency obligation that you be physically present in Canada for at least 730 days in the 5 years prior or you could lose your PR status. You do not lose your permanent resident status if your PR card expires...even if you don't meet the residency obligation, you don't automatically lose your status. However, in order to go in and out of Canada you must have a PR card. If your card expires and you have to apply for a new one you have to be able to prove that you were physically present for at least 730 days in the 5 years prior to your application. If you do not meet that obligation when you apply for a new PR card you may be subject to an inquiry. If as a result, a visa officer or adjudicator determines you do not meet the required residency requirement you may lose your PR status.

Sources:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/guides/5445ETOC.asp#appendixA (As mentioned in my first post) and,

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/newcomers/about-pr.asp

We are confused because your answer had absolutely nothing to do with the original question, which was about Condition 51 compliance.

 

[kwyatt75]

We are confused because your answer had absolutely nothing to do with the original question, which was about Condition 51 compliance.

He was asking about his wife leaving the country and about PR status obligations. There is a residency obligation that she be in Canada for 730 days. So the answer is relevant to his wife's situation as she is a PR and is planning to go outside of Canada. It is something the OP need to keep in mind.

Specifically in terms of Condition 51 compliance:

As it would only apply to conjugal partners in a relationship of two years or less with their sponsor and who have no children in common with their sponsor at the time they submit their sponsorship application. So, we know there is a son...the question is whether that child was present at the time they submitted the sponsorship application. But if they wait to travel until after the 6 months pass and they meet the two year mark it wouldn't even be an issue.

That said, it would probably wouldn't even be an issue because CIC says the sponsored spouse must cohabit in a legitimate relationship with their sponsor for two years from the day on which they receive their permanent resident status in Canada. If they do not remain in the relationship, the sponsored spouse’s status could be revoked. My opinion is that I don't believe that if she travels to visit relatives that terminates the relationship. It is just a trip. If all things continue as he said they "would still be married, and all aspects of our life (finances, social, etc) would still be shared." He should be fine on the Condition 51 compliance aspect.

Source:
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department/media/backgrounders/2012/2012-10-26a.asp

 

[Rob_TO]

Not sure why the two of you are confused. For Permanent Residents there is a residency obligation that you be physically present in Canada for at least 730 days in the 5 years prior or you could lose your PR status. You do not lose your permanent resident status if your PR card expires...even if you don't meet the residency obligation, you don't automatically lose your status. However, in order to go in and out of Canada you must have a PR card.

She is just going for around 6 months, so really residency obligation would not even be a factor. Only if she was thinking of leaving for around 3 years.

Also US citizens don't need a PR card to go in and out of Canada. Just your passport and COPR is fine when entering Canada.

If they do not remain in the relationship, the sponsored spouse's status could be revoked. My opinion is that I don't believe that if she travels to visit relatives that terminates the relationship. It is just a trip. If all things continue as he said they "would still be married, and all aspects of our life (finances, social, etc) would still be shared." He should be fine on the Condition 51 compliance aspect.

It's not just the relationship, but the rules state cohabitation is a requirement. So for example if one person moves to another city for work, and other person stays in home city, even though they are in a genuine relationship still they would be in violation of condition 51. The longer the time apart, the more chance there is CIC would act on it. We have seen people have their inland PRs rejected based on this cohabitation rule.

To the OP, I think the chances of being investigated in your case is very minimal, and most likely nothing will happen. Just keep in mind anything beyond a short/temporary vacation (3-4 weeks) may be deemed as stopping the cohabitation and technically in violation of condition 51.

 

[kwyatt75]

Also US citizens don't need a PR card to go in and out of Canada. Just your passport and COPR is fine when entering Canada.

Hmmm. That's interesting. Thanks for the info, Rob_TO. So even if a person has been a PR for more than 5 years and didn't renew your PR card, you could enter with just your old COPR and your US Passport? Wouldn't that be a red flag for them to open an inquiry to see if you are meeting your residency obligation?

 

[Rob_TO]

Hmmm. That's interesting. Thanks for the info, Rob_TO. So even if a person has been a PR for more than 5 years and didn't renew your PR card, you could enter with just your old COPR and your US Passport? Wouldn't that be a red flag for them to open an inquiry to see if you are meeting your residency obligation?

It may cause CBSA to ask a few more questions about how long you've been out of Canada, but usually your exit/entry information from passport will show them if you've been away for more than 3 years or not. If you meet the RO, there really isn't anything to worry about.

 

[kwyatt75]

If you meet the RO, there really isn't anything to worry about.

Most likely true. Is the burden of proof on the PR to show they meet the RO or is it on the CBSA to prove you don't meet the RO?

It may cause CBSA to ask a few more questions about how long you've been out of Canada, but usually your exit/entry information from passport will show them if you've been away for more than 3 years or not. If you meet the RO, there really isn't anything to worry about.

If you enter the US by ground in a personal conveyance they aren't going to stamp your US Passport. I'm sure they have an electronic record somehow though with the RFID chip in the passport.

 

[Rob_TO]

Most likely true. Is the burden of proof on the PR to show they meet the RO or is it on the CBSA to prove you don't meet the RO?

If it's a true investigation into RO, then it would require the PR to prove their residency over the past X years.

However CBSA will ask the same basic questions to a PR upon entry whether they have their PR card on them or not i.e. purpose of visit abroad, how long were you out of Canada, etc etc. They are trained to detect if someone is extremely nervous or lying about something, so if you don't meet RO and try lying about it in the hopes they won't find out, there's a good chance you'll get you sent to secondary inspection despite if you have your PR card on you. While if you meet the RO and tell them that, even if you don't have your PR card most likely they won't investigate further.

If you enter the US by ground in a personal conveyance they aren't going to stamp your US Passport. I'm sure they have an electronic record somehow though with the RFID chip in the passport.

CBSA has ways of figuring this stuff out. Travelers sent to secondary inspection are often surprised just how much info CBSA has on their travels when they take a few moments to look into it.

 

[kwyatt75]

If it's a true investigation into RO, then it would require the PR to prove their residency over the past X years.

Yeah, I figured that was the case.

However CBSA will ask the same basic questions to a PR upon entry whether they have their PR card on them or not i.e. purpose of visit abroad, how long were you out of Canada, etc etc. They are trained to detect if someone is extremely nervous or lying about something, so if you don't meet RO and try lying about it in the hopes they won't find out, there's a good chance you'll get you sent to secondary inspection despite if you have your PR card on you. While if you meet the RO and tell them that, even if you don't have your PR card most likely they won't investigate further.

Yeah. The bottom line like you said earlier is that if you meet your RO you really don't have anything to worry about. Just make sure you have documentation to prove it.

CBSA has ways of figuring this stuff out. Travelers sent to secondary inspection are often surprised just how much info CBSA has on their travels when they take a few moments to look into it.

Yep. Just do what's right and you will be fine.