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Immigration status in the US affects ability to apply for Canada?

Libra

Hero Member
Jun 8, 2007
222
5
ABOUT LAWYERS:

First, I am not a lawyer, and I am not trying to make a case for or against lawyers; so, I am not taking a position at all with regard to retaining lawyers or not retaining them at all.

Basically, a lawyer is an agent. An agent is someone who acts on behalf of another person, which we all know as the principal. Lawyers are not the only agents on mundane matters. Other agents that handle mundane issues are real estate agents, insurance agents, and travel agents, to name but a few.

I will make an analogy between the agency relationship that a person has with an insurance agent and the agency relationship a lawyer has with clients – for our purposes, an immigrant.

A person can choose or not choose to have an accident and/or health insurance coverage or car insurance with an underwriter; likewise an immigrant can choose or not choose to have a lawyer. If you don’t purchase the required insurance, then you are on your own when you find yourself in an accident or in the hospital. The same goes for an immigrant applicant who self-processed the application, which unfortunately, was not successful.

At the same time, a person can still have insurance and yet face problems when he needs it most, and this is because the final decision is not made by the insurance agent, but by the insurance underwriter company. The underwriter decides whether to accept and process your claim or deny it – considering the fact that you steadfastly made all those premium payments to cover an underlying occurrence or event within the policy. But for some reason, depending on the facts of your claim, the underwriter can deny your claim, usually based on the fine print and /or their interpretation (not yours) of some event.

Likewise, an immigrant can also retain a lawyer and still face the possibility of the application being denied because the final decision is not made by the lawyer but by the Immigration officer. What we fail to realize is that when it comes to immigration, a country’s immigration policies and immigration trends may change between the time your application went in and the time of decision – and this is beyond any lawyer’s control, but of course, the lawyer will always appeal on your behalf.

Also, even though we have straightforward immigration cases, most times, decisions are made on a case-by-case basis, all because of one factor – the facts – surrounding a given application. This explains why two applicants with worst case scenarios may turn out to be that one of them will receive a favorable decision, and the other an unfavorable decision. Likewise, two other applicants with best case scenarios may also turn out as one of them receiving a favorable decision and the other an unfavorable decision. All of these instances or scenarios could happen with or without retaining a lawyer.

At the end of the day, it all boils down to this paradigm: an immigrant’s application is between the devil and the deep blue sea, and the applicant can only hope and patiently wait for the ‘sky,’ with or without the services of lawyer.

And, are we forgetting something here? We are enjoying the benefits of exchanging ideas and personal experiences through this forum – a free platform – which is a courtesy provided to us by a law firm. And many forum members, despite the hurdles and obstacles, have been successful in their applications without even retaining the lawyer that facilitated this forum, or any other lawyer for that matter. The many posts under the subject “SPONSORING HUSBAND FROM MOROCCO” is proof of this including other successful members in other parts of this forum.

Therefore, most definitely, it is okay to talk about lawyers who are unscrupulous – oh yes, it is, but we should try NOT to tag “all lawyers” as unscrupulous or inefficient. That would be a fallacy.

So, it is best if we practice tolerance as well as not to cast “all lawyers” in a negative light, because in case you may not be aware of it, immigration laws and policies have changed in favor of immigrants over the years based on:

1. The tolerant nature of human right activists and their advocacy on our behalf, as well as from,
2. The persuasive arguments from lawyers in the courts on immigration appeals from applicants who were denied.

With all of the above in mind, let us all exercise some form of restraint; and in everybody’s best interest, we should strive to stay away from any form of labeling and name calling in order to maintain and sustain decorum within the forum.

Remember guys, that a forum like this is all about exchanging ideas and personal experiences, respecting our differences, and appreciating one another.

May we all succeed in our endeavors - peace!

Warm regards,
Libra.
 

Libra

Hero Member
Jun 8, 2007
222
5
Cyrus,

Even though your friend is out of status, her chances of being legally accepted into Canada are higher than her chances of succeeding in getting a Section 212 Waiver. Her odds would have been greater with the 212 waiver.

Here are excerpts and links to the full articles from a couple of attorneys with regard to their opinion on 212 Waivers:

“As with applying for any immigration benefit, an alien should be prepared to rise far above the minimum. Although the I-212 form is just one page, a proper I-212 waiver is a well-documented and voluminous request to return to the United States and should be at least one inch thick or more of supporting documentation and well written declarations explaining and presenting why they should be granted a waiver. Think of it this way, immigration officials deny most waivers. It is just not enough to be married to a United States citizen or have a United States relative residing in the United States.”

SOURCE: http://www.rreeves.com/news_article.asp?aid=379

“This procedure to determine whether the alien may return to his family with a green card is called a "section 212 waiver." Unfortunately, it is a particularly risky road to take. Each individual case is decided by a U.S. consular officer sitting at a desk in an American embassy or consulate overseas. The guidelines are not uniform, and there is little room for review of such decisions. In even the best of these circumstances, the section 212 waiver is a costly procedure, it disrupts the alien's family life, and if unsuccessful it may leave him stranded thousands of miles from his loved ones, with no prospect of safe return.”

SOURCE: http://www.visalaw.com/02aug2/2aug202.html

Parole is out of the question since in most cases; it is obtained from outside of the U.S.
Requesting for Parole from within the U.S. is the fastest route towards deportation proceedings.

There is a difference between the following scenarios for Canada immigration:

1. An applicant that was legally admitted into the U.S. or current country of residence for at least one year

2. An applicant that illegally entered the U.S. or current country of residence

Applicant 2 needs to go back home and apply from country of nationality.

Whereas, Applicant 1 can apply; so, your girlfriend has passed the initial hurdle – she can apply.

Next, everybody’s application and supporting documents are reviewed with scrutiny with heavy emphasis on documents that support what we say and claim with regard to our education and residency.

If you attend an interview and they seem to put you through a grueling process, it is because they want to see whether you are telling the truth about everything else, and not just the obvious fact that somebody is out of status, which they already know from your application. And if that had been a problem at all, they would not even send out of status applicants an AOR.

So, if your friend can provide all valid documents that support the following:

Her legal entry and residency for at least one year,
Her work experience both inside and out of the U.S.,
Her education,
Her tax returns if she worked in the U.S. whether she worked with or without a valid work permit,
Plus proof of her settlement funds, or Getting an Arranged Employment
Proof of no criminality from the FBI Clearance, and
No serious health issues from the medical exam,

I don’t think she has anything to fear other than the wait.

She should be fine ULESS, if she cannot provide supporting documents.

Best of Luck to her!

Warm regards,
Libra.
 

xtream

Newbie
Jul 8, 2007
5
0
This forum has headed towards immigration problem within US and it seems like not solving the actual problem of the appicant whether he or she can apply for canadian PR if one is out of status but primary he or she has been in staus for more than a year, then ? should they can apply on their own risk with probability of interview hurdle. Please post the appropriete information for the people who has been out of status and wanted to become the Canadian PR so that the information might be morning sunrise to them.
 

Libra

Hero Member
Jun 8, 2007
222
5
xtream,

Your question is redundant because the very last post before you posted your concern at 10:39:55 p.m. on July 13 gave an answer to that, which was actually directed to the person who started this thread/subject, and that was Cyrus. In fact, the last post answered some concerns that Cyrus had.

This means you either didn't read the last posting, or you were up against a reading block, which is understandable.

Rather than making conclusory statements like you did in your last post, it will be best if you find the time to read and comprehend the postings that precede yours in order to give you a full and clearer picture of what everybody else is saying in the fourm. If you don't have the time to do that, that is fine because time is precious to us all, but do not make conclusory statements when you haven't had the time to go through all of the posts and fully comprehend the underlying current or tone behind each writer's post.

An interview waiver is not a given, but it is issued at the sole discretion of the immigration officer who handles one's case. Usually, if an applicant provides all supporting documents as the last post stipulated, to the satisfaction of the immigration officer, then there is a lilkelihood that the applicant will receive an interview waiver. However, the immigration officer reserves the right to request for an interview even if a waiver was initially granted.

I hope you don't experience a reading block once again, if that was the case; otherwise, your concern was fully answered before your post, thus making it a redundant concern.

If you have the urge to go back and forth on this, or maybe if you are not the exception to the norm - and that is the usual human instinct of having the last say, let me inform you upfront that you will not find in me a willing tango partner - "for, it only takes two to tango,"and, I do not do the tango.

Warm regards,
Libra.
 

calvin1998

Full Member
Jun 28, 2007
39
0
I was recently told that having my partner out of status would get complicated, but with a good lawyer and with no criminal records we should be OK. How true this is I do not know.
 

Libra

Hero Member
Jun 8, 2007
222
5
calvin1998 said:
I was recently told that having my partner out of status would get complicated, but with a good lawyer and with no criminal records we should be OK. How true this is I do not know.
As long as your partner was granted a legal status to stay within the U. S. for 1 year or more, your partner can apply. And as long as there is no DUI (Driving Under the Influence) or DWI (Driving While Intoxicated) in your partner's record - as these will show up on the FBI Clearance Certificate - then it's okay.

In such situations (out of status), a qualified Canadian lawyer recognized by a Provincial Law Society (compared to a State Bar Association) - and NOT a consultant - should be able to guide you as to all of the supporting documents required in your case. When it comes to matters like these, it is not advisable to go to any lawyer off the book or off the internet, but to a lawyer that is referred by word of mouth.

The reason you are getting a lawyer is as a back-up plan to avoid any subjectivity that might come from a zealous Immigration Officer knowing the precarious situation your partner is in as well as with others in the same boat. Just like you have them within the police force, you find zealots anywhere, including immigration, which can be worse.

Out of Status Students from within the U.S. have been known to make it through this process as Skilled Workers.

If you can afford a lawyer, then retain one. And, before retaining one, get opinions from at least two or three lawyers - I can understand that getting these opinions can be costly, but it's worth the try.

The Canadian immigration process is pretty much straightforward if you are applying from within your country of nationality, and then you can do the process by yourself, BUT it becomes less straightforward if that is not the case backed by other nitty gritty issues.

That's all I can say, and as always, please feel free to continue posting your concerns about this matter. Good Luck to you all.

P.S. See my post addressed to Cyrus as to why a CIC officer will gruel an applicant during the interview process. Also see my post to Xtream about an interview waiver (a well-prepared application, sometimes possible with the help of a lawyer, but never a guarantee). Even if you have to go for an interview, your lawyer should prepare you.
 

Libra

Hero Member
Jun 8, 2007
222
5
As long as an individual is granted legal status to stay within a country other than that person's country of nationality for a period of 1 year of more, that individual can apply; Canadian Law says so.

The fact that the individual does not maintain his or her legal status in the current country of residence (out of status) is not listed in, and it is not similar to the list of offenses that would render someone inadmissible to Canada. This is my interpretation.

Inadmissible offenses: http://geo.international.gc.ca/can-am/buffalo/visas/inadmissible-en.asp

Again, I am not a lawyer and therefore, not an expert on the full interpretation of Canadian Law - just like everyone else at this Forum.
 

calvin1998

Full Member
Jun 28, 2007
39
0
Libra said:
As long as an individual is granted legal status to stay within a country other than that person's country of nationality for a period of 1 year of more, that individual can apply; Canadian Law says so.

The fact that the individual does not maintain his or her legal status in the current country of residence (out of status) is not listed and it is not similar to the list of offenses that would render someone inadmissible to Canada. This is my interpretation.

Inadmissible offenses: http://geo.international.gc.ca/can-am/buffalo/visas/inadmissible-en.asp

Again, I am not a lawyer and therefore, not an expert on the full interpretation of Canadian Law - just like everyone else at this Forum.
Thank you for your opinion. My partner was addmitted on an F1 student visa. He did actually go to school and tried to change over to H1b but failed. Other than that no offenses. I have supported him and he is of upstanding character.

We both want to go to Canada not only because of his status but also because Canada welcomes gay people as well as Asians, bo which we both are.

Thank you so much for your advice.
 

Libra

Hero Member
Jun 8, 2007
222
5
calvin1998 said:
Libra said:
As long as an individual is granted legal status to stay within a country other than that person's country of nationality for a period of 1 year of more, that individual can apply; Canadian Law says so.

The fact that the individual does not maintain his or her legal status in the current country of residence (out of status) is not listed and it is not similar to the list of offenses that would render someone inadmissible to Canada. This is my interpretation.

Inadmissible offenses: http://geo.international.gc.ca/can-am/buffalo/visas/inadmissible-en.asp

Again, I am not a lawyer and therefore, not an expert on the full interpretation of Canadian Law - just like everyone else at this Forum.
Thank you for your opinion. My partner was addmitted on an F1 student visa. He did actually go to school and tried to change over to H1b but failed. Other than that no offenses. I have supported him and he is of upstanding character.

We both want to go to Canada not only because of his status but also because Canada welcomes gay people as well as Asians, bo which we both are.

Thank you so much for your advice.

You're most welcome; and I perfectly understand where you are coming from with the doubts - it's only human.

You and your partner will be fine, and who knows, you might have your interview waived with strong supporting documents.

If not, and you have to go for an interview, don't let the officer get to you; keep your calm; be honest and consistent in your responses, which must match everything on the application; maintain a steady voice; maintain eye contact like a true American; don't be friendly - be professional; and all will be well.

If others who were in your shoes have made it through, so will you. Other than the money, patience is all you need.
 

kappal_tero_deekra

Full Member
Jul 12, 2007
26
0
You're most welcome; and I perfectly understand where you are coming from with the doubts - it's only human.

You and your partner will be fine, and who knows, you might have your interview waived with strong supporting documents.

If not, and you have to go for an interview, don't let the officer get to you; keep your calm; be honest and consistent in your responses, which must match everything on the application; maintain a steady voice; maintain eye contact like a true American; don't be friendly - be professional; and all will be well.

If others who were in your shoes have made it through, so will you. Other than the money, patience is all you need.
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So wonderful of you, deekree, to be so kind and helpful in all of your replies. If only all the other posters would be as nice and positive as you. Your posts are a pleasure to read.