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Immigration status in the US affects ability to apply for Canada?

Cyrus

Newbie
Jul 7, 2007
6
0
Hello Everyone:
I have a friend from Brazil who is now out of status in the United States. She has qualified for her skilled worker program based on 84 points - Masters degree, Two years work experience, fluent in English and French and she is 39. However she is out of status in the US since 1994. Came on a student visa in 1992 for her Masters Degree. I have heard that if you entered the US or any country legally and were given permission to stay there, for a year or more, then whether you are out of status now is not a basis for your application to be rejected. Can a few people in the same situation like her, but whose applications were not rejected advise for sure!? I don't want her to apply and waste her money.
 

xtream

Newbie
Jul 8, 2007
5
0
Thanks "Cyrus", for your encouraging statement and for that point friend of mine can proceed for his regular application process and application materials can be sent to Buffalo, NY center, right ? Then you are pretty much confimed about that. He has been here for six years with legal status and it is only couple of months that he has been out of status. If you have more information, kindly please drop your views thru this forum. Thanks once again.
 

alf

Newbie
Mar 16, 2007
5
0
My husband does not have legal status in the U.S. and it was a HUGE problem at the immigration interview in Detroit. They interrogated me about it and from the questions they asked I got the very strong impression that they highly doubt the credibility of people that have lived out of status or without status in another country. My lawyer told me that it wouldn't be a problem, but it was. Be careful who you listen to and prepare yourself to defend every aspect of your character and dignity during the interview. I still haven't gotten a final determination on our case, but based on the interview I am preparing for the worst case scenario. I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but I wish someone had told me the truth before I started the whole process and spent so much money.
 

xtream

Newbie
Jul 8, 2007
5
0
I am confused whether friend of should apply or not because the statement from previous poster has submitted their worst case senario so I am in doubt. I did talk with the lawyer from TORONTO but he told me the fact status was not the problem. If friend of mine call for an interview he should be able to defend him with strong arguments to succeed his case. Any clarification please drop in this forum.
 

Cyrus

Newbie
Jul 7, 2007
6
0
Thank You ALF for that posting. This is truly awful news - believe it or not, I have spoken to 6 lawyers from Quebec to British Columbia - coast to coast and they have all told me that if you were admitted legally for one year in a country, then your application will not be denied on that basis. I see what is happening now. Although being out of status does not immediately bar you from applying for Immigration Canada, it is seen as a defiance or a civil disobedience for a certain government (eg: US) and Canada thinks that if you chose to break the law by overstaying in one country, you potentially have it in you to defy them in the future. Just thinking out loud. I live in San Francisco and I had called the Canadian Consulate a few weeks back and the lady was very chatty - very helpful. She was an American who worked there and she told me that she does not advice anyone applying for Immigration to Canada who is out of status. I did not listen to her because lawyers informed me differently! She also said that Canada should not be a last resort for people to immigrate if their US Immigration does not work out - it seems that you don't want to go back to your own country. Oh well - I now gave solid advice to a good friend of mine and I may just have to retract my assurance of her being out of status.
Someone very knowledgeable on this very board had also informed me 5 days back that 'be prepared that your documents and information to be looked very closely and scrutinized thoroughly when you are out of status' - it all adds up.
This really must be so difficult for people who are out of status here in the US due to lay-offs and other reasons, with no fault of their own - and being out of status in the US means 3 to 10 year bars from re-entering, unless you get a 212 waiver.
Those of you in the business field - specially International Business, getting the highest certification in Canada called the CITP - Certified International Trade Professional, might be helpful. http://www.fitt.ca You can send in a portfolio with your degree and your work experience in international trade/business and they will give you a CITP based on your qualifications and work experience without you actually taking their classes/training. More info on their website.
ALF - I wish you get a favorable decision!!
 

calvin1998

Full Member
Jun 28, 2007
39
0
Thanks Cyrus. But would this also involve my case? I am an American born citizen and my partner came to the US legally as a student and overstayed his visa. I am the "main" immigrant and partner is "family."

BTW could you please give me the number of that person in the SF consulate. I can't get through anyone here in the NYC area consulate to speak with. If you like you can e-mail me directly at calvin1998@hotmail.com.

Thank you.
 

Ozzie

Star Member
Aug 3, 2006
55
1
USA
If it's not a PROBLEM now it can be a problem trust me on this... When I went for an interview the IO asked me literally 5 times about my status when I entered US and what my current status is. For every work experience that I mentioned in my app for US, he asked me for a work permit against that job claim... for them its more of an individual credibility and honesty being a question.. If one can break US law he/she will do the same in Canada not only for immigration, but for any thing else... that's there real argument.
I don't know how the hell these lawyers are telling you guys if this is not a problem.. when I applied thru David Cohen's firm they clearly mentioned it to me that in order to apply you have to maintain a legal status in the country of residence...
 

thaiguy

Champion Member
Apr 7, 2007
1,216
4
Vancouver
Cyrus said:
This really must be so difficult for people who are out of status here in the US due to lay-offs and other reasons, with no fault of their own ...
I don't understand this comment.. that people are "out of status here in the US ... with no fault of their own."

Did someone in the U.S. prevent them from going home? Did someone twist their arm to stay illegally? If they lose their jobs while on a work visa, they are no longer legal. They don't have a right to stay just because they're already there.

I have every respect for people following the rules - however difficult that may be - to go to and remain in the U.S. These are welcome immigrants and potential citizens. And I have seen that immigrants who follow the rules and immigrate legally tend to be very hardworking and successful. That is truly the American dream.

But people who stay beyond the terms of their visas do so of their own accord. It is a conscious decision to break the law. This is the case in the U.S., Canada, Thailand, or any other country. And if you think that doesn't indicate a person's willingness to commit a crime in the future - you're wrong.
 

calvin1998

Full Member
Jun 28, 2007
39
0
thaiguy said:
Cyrus said:
This really must be so difficult for people who are out of status here in the US due to lay-offs and other reasons, with no fault of their own ...
I don't understand this comment.. that people are "out of status here in the US ... with no fault of their own."

Did someone in the U.S. prevent them from going home? Did someone twist their arm to stay illegally? If they lose their jobs while on a work visa, they are no longer legal. They don't have a right to stay just because they're already there.

I have every respect for people following the rules - however difficult that may be - to go to and remain in the U.S. These are welcome immigrants and potential citizens. And I have seen that immigrants who follow the rules and immigrate legally tend to be very hardworking and successful. That is truly the American dream.

But people who stay beyond the terms of their visas do so of their own accord. It is a conscious decision to break the law. This is the case in the U.S., Canada, Thailand, or any other country. And if you think that doesn't indicate a person's willingness to commit a crime in the future - you're wrong.
I strongly disagree with the above statement. First of all, a lot of things come into play when you discuss immigration, including bias towards one ethnic group/nationality vs another. Do you really think the US would have such a large illegal immigration problem if most of those that were seeking to come here were from Europe? Of course not! It is because most of the illegals here are Hispanic or Asian. Period.

Another thing is that the US has become one of the most difficult countries to immigrate to. The immigration authorities go out of their way to keep you out.

For example, when I was at a certain foreign bank we tried to get one of our employees who was on a H1B work visa her PR. We did exactly what the lawyers and the INS told us to do. Her salary was at that time USD5,000 MORE THAN the national average that we had obtained from the salary surveys.

The INS denied her the PR (green card). Why? They stated that her salary was about USD20,000 LOWER THAN what the national average was. This was, of course, nonsense. We appealed, but to no avail. After all that time, money, and paperwork, we failed to get her the PR visa. She eventually gave up and left.

One more thing, the US immigration laws SEVERELY DISCRIMINATE ON THE BASIS OF S--UAL ORIENTATION. In other words, I, a US citizen, have no right whatsoever to sponsor my partner here from abroad, whereas a heteros--ual can freely do so. Where is the justice, in that I pay the same taxes and bear the same burdens as any heteros--ual?

This does not mean that we should flout the laws of any country, but I grieve for many people who feel they have no choice but to become illegal. I especially understand the plight of the international gay/lesbian couples. In that sense, I really love Canada. And I and my partner plan to go to Canada LEGALLY and obey the laws and pay the taxes because it is a country that respects all of its minorities. Not just a chosen few.

The America dream, as Thaiguy stated, is now harder to obtain for most than ever before. Most immigrants who came here 10 years ago or earlier would not be able to get in today. This is the reality. Unfortunately too many do not understand this until they are already here... and then they find out the hard way.

Thaiguy (and others) please log onto the US Immigration Rights Task Force webpage at http://www.immigrationequality.org/ before you decide that illegals are more likley to break other laws. Do you have any idea how hard I tried to keep my partner in status? How much time and money I spent doing it? That except for his status we obey every law and pay every tax? I promise it will be a great learning experience.
 

thaiguy

Champion Member
Apr 7, 2007
1,216
4
Vancouver
I know it's difficult to immigrate to the U.S. I'm in the exact position you mentioned, Calvin - I couldn't get my partner to the U.S. But I'm not angry about it. I'm just going to take Canada up on its great offer to allow both of us to immigrate. So no laws are broken. No visas are overstayed. I'm working within the system. Others should too.

Breaking the law is a choice.
 

kappal_tero_deekra

Full Member
Jul 12, 2007
26
0
I am shocked to read Thaiguy's message. Does he really think things are so simple? The world is not all black and white. And what is this nonsense that if you break an immigration law you will break other laws as well? Kappal! Thaiguy sounds more like a red neck American to me.
 

Eduardo Picazo

Hero Member
Feb 19, 2005
399
3
123
Reynosa, Mexico
Hi ladies and Gentlemen

Based on what I read, it just sounds to as an anti-immigrant behavior, why too much anger against them? They are humans with feelings and needs, they are not different from us just because of legally status or not.

This people my friends… performs all the kind of jobs, even those that no one with a citizenship in the US or legally status wants to do, so we should have more respect for them. They are working for food for their families like you and me

Bottom line, all of us will be immigrants or “aliens” just like the US use to call the foreign people; with or without legally status we will be immigrants for ever…..

I am proud of being immigrant and God bless all no matter what the status are, He owns the world anyway

No offense, on the contrary with all respect
Eduardo
 

Libra

Hero Member
Jun 8, 2007
222
5
Immigration Status in the U.S. and How it Affects Ability to Apply to Canada

Hi all,

It is sad when we allow our emotions to get the better part of us at times.

Sometimes, if we can only take a step back in order to look at issues from a narrower perspective rather than from a broader perspective, then we will realize the fallacy in certain arguments.

ABOUT OUT OF STATUS IMMIGRANTS
The life experiences of immigrants differ from one person to the other because immigrants do not just come from different countries, but also, they come from different socio-economic backgrounds, as well as from different political and religious systems.

I am not trying to make an excuse for immigrants who break a nation’s immigration laws; however, I am recognizing the fact that such immigrants must be faced with circumstances that would not allow them to utilize the option of returning to their home countries due to the differences I just mentioned in the preceding paragraph.

We all make conscious decisions. Going over the speed limit is a conscious decision and a violation of speeding laws, but it does not mean that the driver will always break, not just speed laws some place else, but other laws as well. Likewise, being out of status is a violation of immigration law – no doubt about that, but it does not mean that an out of status immigrant in one country will break an immigration law or any other law, if and when legally accepted and recognized by another country.

This is because once an out of status immigrant from Country X is legally accepted by Country Y, the immigrant is no longer faced with the yoke or burden that comes with being out of status such as not being allowed to work. So, as a legally recognized immigrant in Country Y, the out of status stigma is gone! The immigrant now has the opportunity to prove that he or she is law abiding without the yoke of illegal immigration hanging around the neck anymore – and the immigrant’s primary concern in Country Y is to maintain status until desired citizenship if the immigrant wishes it so.

It is also true that if we choose to break the law, we must dance to the tune of the consequences. With regard to the consequences, who then should be the judge? Me? You? Fellow Immigrants? Persons who are non-breakers of the law? Or, - the Immigration Officer representing the government?

Interestingly, governments do recognize that certain out of status immigrants are usually faced with obstacles that would pose an undue hardship on the immigrant if forced to go back to his or her home country; otherwise, the very government would not have created an exception to the rule by providing illegal immigrants leeway to redeem or acquire legal status through the processes of parole/advance parole as well as waivers from being barred from the U.S. Parole and waivers can be tough and in most cases denied because the applicants failed to meet their burdens by showing undue hardship or persecution, but if the government creates them, it demonstrates a show of tolerance from the government.

Therefore, if the government has these processes in place depicting tolerance on their part, I ask myself this question: who am I then, not to be tolerant of others but to portray myself as sanctimonious? Why should I judge others in the immigration process, when we are all judged by the immigration officers, and all it takes is just one small oversight, or omission, or a missing supporting document(s) that we never thought of /or didn’t even cross our minds, - for a decision to go in the unfavorable direction.

And so, let us not forget that even though immigration officers are supposed to use unbiased and objective discretion, it is a known fact, that some of them have been subjective and allowed their personal bias in making negative decisions. So, even if I have never broken an immigration law, and I happen to have a best case scenario, I still have to worry about a decision that might be based on some form of bias triggered by some little thing in my personal and /or character profile.

Here is a case in point:

JANUARY 30, 2007
Zuo v. Canada (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration)

The existence of English instruction at much lower cost in home countries should not be taken as determining the likelihood of the applicant to leave Canada following the authorized period of stay. The applicant enjoyed a high standard of living in China and his parents had significant savings to invest in his education. He provided a study plan that stated his intentions to improve his English skills in order to pursue graduate studies in Sports Journalism. This educational goal was tied to a plan to return to China and join his parents for a career in public service. The officer erred by applying a subjective judgment on the financial value of English language training, which would certainly be superior when taught in an environment where English is the predominant language (Vancouver). By applying this determination without regard for the applicant’s ties to China, the officer erred in rejecting his application on the grounds he was unlikely to leave after his authorized stay.

SOURCE: http://www.canadavisa.com/immigration-case-studies.html]http://www.canadavisa.com/immigration-case-studies.html]http://www.canadavisa.com/immigration-case-studies.html

With all of the above in mind, let us all exercise some form of restraint; and in everybody’s best interest, we should strive to stay away from any form of labeling and name calling in order to maintain and sustain decorum within the forum.

Remember guys, that a forum like this is all about exchanging ideas and personal experiences, respecting our differences, and appreciating one another.

May we all succeed in our endeavors - peace!

Warm regards,
Libra.