How long do you have to live together to make it look real?

[canadianwoman]

I'd like to hear forum members' opinions about this.
My husband's PR application was rejected, and we lost the appeal. I'm going to go live with him, starting next week. After some time, we will apply again.
So how long do you think we would have to live together to make our relationship look genuine in the eyes of a visa officer? (It is genuine, I'm just not having much luck convincing CIC of that.)

 

[Baloo]

I don't think that there is a specific amount of time, to make it look real.

A VO has to look at the whole picture.

As an example, what would be more "real":

A couple who dated for 12 months, got engaged and then after six months got married and applied for PR?
or
A couple who met, lived together for 18 months, got married and immediately applied for PR?
or
A couple who met, lived together for 6 months, got married, waited for 12 months and applied for PR?








These are not trick questions, I know couples who are in those relationships, (they are all genuine).

 

[CharlieD10]

Sorry to hear the appeal was dismissed.

I realise that it's important to convince the IO that your relationship is genuine, as it's the only way you are going to get approval for him to join you in Canada. With that said, though, I would say it's more important to consider how you will make a life together in Ghana since you are have decided to go there to live with him.

Things like, will you be able to work? If not, how will you support yourselves on his salary and any savings you have? What about your obligations in Canada, how will you care for those while living abroad? These are the mundane concerns of living abroad for any length of time, not just for however long it takes to convince an IO that your relationship is genuine.

From my own experience, when my husband came to Jamaica to live with me last year, all these things came up. We discussed how the bills would be paid, who would do what in the house, what actions we would take to ensure he maintained legal status in Jamaica (non-Jamaicans are only being allowed to enter the country for 3 months at a time, we have to file and pay for extensions after that). Things like who would care for his dog (no-one, he ended up having to sell the animal), who would pay his bills and collect his mail (his father), all had to be sorted before he left Canada.

Now that his father is deceased, we have to go through all those discussions again every time he comes to Jamaica to visit. Of necessity, he can no longer spend extended periods with me, so we decided on shorter but more frequent trips, say two weeks every four months months.

I'm saying all of this to say...if you're going to go live with your husband abroad because it's the only way you can be together as a family, IMHO you should approach it from a practical, living-our-life-as-best-we-can perspective, and not from an Immigration perspective. It's impossible to put a timeframe on how long you can live with him in Ghana without considering all these things. Your circumstances will determine how long you can live together, not your need to convince an IO. There is no point in my saying, live with him for a year at least, if that is entirely beyond your circumstances.

I do wish you both all the best in working something out so you can be together as a family.

 

[Love_Young]

Sorry to hear the appeal was dismissed.

I realise that it's important to convince the IO that your relationship is genuine, as it's the only way you are going to get approval for him to join you in Canada. With that said, though, I would say it's more important to consider how you will make a life together in Ghana since you are have decided to go there to live with him.

Things like, will you be able to work? If not, how will you support yourselves on his salary and any savings you have? What about your obligations in Canada, how will you care for those while living abroad? These are the mundane concerns of living abroad for any length of time, not just for however long it takes to convince an IO that your relationship is genuine.

From my own experience, when my husband came to Jamaica to live with me last year, all these things came up. We discussed how the bills would be paid, who would do what in the house, what actions we would take to ensure he maintained legal status in Jamaica (non-Jamaicans are only being allowed to enter the country for 3 months at a time, we have to file and pay for extensions after that). Things like who would care for his dog (no-one, he ended up having to sell the animal), who would pay his bills and collect his mail (his father), all had to be sorted before he left Canada.

Now that his father is deceased, we have to go through all those discussions again every time he comes to Jamaica to visit. Of necessity, he can no longer spend extended periods with me, so we decided on shorter but more frequent trips, say two weeks every four months months.

I'm saying all of this to say...if you're going to go live with your husband abroad because it's the only way you can be together as a family, IMHO you should approach it from a practical, living-our-life-as-best-we-can perspective, and not from an Immigration perspective. It's impossible to put a timeframe on how long you can live with him in Ghana without considering all these things. Your circumstances will determine how long you can live together, not your need to convince an IO. There is no point in my saying, live with him for a year at least, if that is entirely beyond your circumstances.

I do wish you both all the best in working something out so you can be together as a family.

CharlieD10: 100% agree with what you have to say here.

canadianwoman: At this point I would definitely try (even though it is hard) to focus on what you are capable in doing and trying for a normal life together. Do what is best for you. If you can't stay for a year, you could always visit for longer periods. Like maybe visit 3 months, go home 3 months, visit 3 months, come home 3 months etc. You would still be spending a lot of time at home but also if you did have to go home it wouldn't feel like such a long wait. But as CharlieD10 posted you have to deal with responsibilities at home, financial aspect, and being able to transition well. I know with our situation that if I get refused that we will have my hubby come visit again in the US but because of his disease and health to worry about (he got sick last time) I would say he could only see me for 3 months then go home again for another 3 months then the same all over again. Then during his 3 months stay at home we could both save up funds and so could he. Better for the both of us. Then maybe after a year or close to it, if I could I would apply for a student visa, stay here for a while build up more evidence and either apply again through spousal or try to go to school for 3-4 years then get PGWP and apply through PNP or Canadian Experience Class. I don't like to think of all we would have to try to deal or plan with if we get rejected but it is good to have a plan set in mind. I wish you so much luck. I hope that you find enjoyment living together and try to forget about immigration for a while. Hopefully you can update us on how living together goes. I know you are going to show CIC just how true of a couple you are. For one you showed you are willing to live with him and two you have the ability to push on. Show them you are never going to give up and they will approve it. We all believe in you all here. Now go enjoy planning your trip and get ready to see your hubby. You must be so excited. Have a safe trip.

P.S. Sorry for all the run on sentences. My mind is sporadic today.

Baloo: I guess we fall in your line of "normalness" because me and hubby knew each for 6 months before meeting, at the time of engagement we had been dating and living together for 18 months, married after being engaged almost 3 months then applied for immigration 2 months after being married. Hopefully we get approved because given our circumstances I think we have had a so called normal relationship timeline that most couples would have. Thanks Baloo for reminding that I should fall in the lines of "normal" when most days going through this, I don't feel that way.

 

[Baloo]

Baloo: I guess we fall in your line of "normalness" because me and hubby knew each for 6 months before meeting, at the time of engagement we had been dating and living together for 18 months, married after being engaged almost 3 months then applied for immigration 2 months after being married. Hopefully we get approved because given our circumstances I think we have had a so called normal relationship timeline that most couples would have. Thanks Baloo for reminding that I should fall in the lines of "normal" when most days going through this, I don't feel that way.

I would not say they are my fixed views of normal, it is just that I know couples with those circumstances.
I guess my point is, there is a very wide range of "normal", that is why an IO needs the bigger picture.

 

[Love_Young]

I would not say they are my fixed views of normal, it is just that I know couples with those circumstances.
I guess my point is, there is a very wide range of "normal", that is why an IO needs the bigger picture.

Well there are always going to be different views of normal based on given circumstances and of course most couples are biased towards thinking their relationship is genuine and normal because well in most cases it is. The difference between the applicants and the IO in this situation though is that the IO needs the ability to see what appears to be "normal" from many different aspects. We can only hope that they see it in the same manner that we do. I too have viewed very many different aspects of "normal" and all were genuine. It really just depends on your circumstances, religion, beliefs, culture, etc. For my relationship giving the way it has spanned out over a longer period of time and we are a US/Canadian couple for our culture I think it should appear to look as normal to them as it does for us but if I was from another culture that didn't believe in it happening that way then the IO would think that it wasn't because it doesn't appear to be how most relationships between a same country relationship would be. I can only hope ours appears "normal" to them based on their training. Either way we are genuine and even if the IO doubts that, it is important that we not let their opinion affect us. Because we love each other and we will get through no matter what.

By the way, sorry canadianwoman for appearing to have hijacked your thread. Very sorry.

 

[leroadrunner]

Sorry to hear canadianwoman. You sound very strong, thank god!

Would it be possible to know your story a bit? Some lessons learned for us maybe...what you would have done different?

If we get rejected, and we talked about this, I would leave to be with her, but realy hope now!

 

[canadianwoman]

Would it be possible to know your story a bit? Some lessons learned for us maybe...what you would have done different?

What I would have done different is to have my husband go to a different country on a year visa and apply through that visa office.
He's Nigerian, so applies through Ghana, which has a refusal rate of 50% and a processing time of close to 2 years. Now he's living in Malaysia. He knows 7 Nigerians in Malaysia who have applied for a PR visa to Canada. All of them have short-term relationships: they all met their wives over the Internet, had an online relationship of anywhere from 2 months to 4 months, then the women came to Malaysia to visit, stayed from 2 weeks to a month, got married and applied. Of these 7, 5 were approved within 6 months of applying, 1 was rejected but won his appeal, and the last had his application sent back to Ghana, where it was rejected. Clearly, the odds are better in Malaysia.

 

[jdwhite21]

canadianwoman:

We too were rejected the first time around... what we did the 2nd time around was get a lawyer. Our case is probably far from what you would consider "normal" but we know of cases that would be even less "normal" than ours who got approved. Basically, according to our lawyer, immigration is more of the luck of who you get to process your application. Some officers are more open minded, others stick very strongly to what they consider normal and it is hard to prove to them your relationship is real if you are somewhat out of what's considered "normal". Also, he told us that he thought it's harder to sponsor husbands from other countries because immigration feels that men are more desperate to come to Canada and are willing to do anything. I don't know how true this really is but this is what my lawyer figured. I don't know though... it's really sad that this happens to people. Hopefully paying a lot of money will make a difference.. good luck and keep us updated.

Jess.

 

[missmini]

i also agree with all the other posts...
first u need to see how long u can stay in the country where ur husband is from visas point of view; maybe ur husband can add u to his business visa in Malaysia, that would make things look good from the IO point of view maybe
i guess 1 year is enough but also maybe after 6 months it could be ok; maybe if u will still be with ur husband in the moment when u'll apply again, it would be a good point
also while u r there just be happy and enjoy ur time together; don't worry every day about immigration and don't let it affect u; of course, from time to time, u could put aside a good receipt (home furniture bought together, or electronics) or go visiting around places there and keep the receipts from the hotels or send gifts/post cards from both to ur families or receive things from ur families to both of u, or maybe even have some family visit u....

at the end maybe just applying from another place will make the whole difference no need of extra proof

me too i left from Canada to be with my sweetheart (back then just cuz i wanted to explore a new place and to be with him, no immigration clear in mind, or maybe a little ); so i know it's not the easiest decision to take but at the end it's what makes u happy and what u need right now so go for it and have no regrets; i hope our application will go ok, but no matter the end result, i will not go back to Canada by myself

u r so strong, a great example of character for all of us....

good luck, have a nice trip and a lovely adventure together

 

[MandiF]

My husband and I hadn't spent a whole year living together before sending in PPR. In total we had probably only lived together about 7 months prior to sending in docs and we received PPR.

So I really don't think that there is a set time period, if we hadn't been married, we would not have lived together long enough to apply.

 

[HoneyBird2]

What I would have done different is to have my husband go to a different country on a year visa and apply through that visa office.
He's Nigerian, so applies through Ghana, which has a refusal rate of 50% and a processing time of close to 2 years. Now he's living in Malaysia. He knows 7 Nigerians in Malaysia who have applied for a PR visa to Canada. All of them have short-term relationships: they all met their wives over the Internet, had an online relationship of anywhere from 2 months to 4 months, then the women came to Malaysia to visit, stayed from 2 weeks to a month, got married and applied. Of these 7, 5 were approved within 6 months of applying, 1 was rejected but won his appeal, and the last had his application sent back to Ghana, where it was rejected. Clearly, the odds are better in Malaysia.

Canadianwoman, when you reapply again, would they relook at your old file to see why you were denied? or is it a total fresh start? like they don't take it into account.

I would say, if they look at your old files, or because they see different country to wait more than 6 months...to be safe i think a year. Because the IO might figure out that is why he went to Malaysia.

 

[clubcanada]

I'd like to hear forum members' opinions about this.
My husband's PR application was rejected, and we lost the appeal. I'm going to go live with him, starting next week. After some time, we will apply again.
So how long do you think we would have to live together to make our relationship look genuine in the eyes of a visa officer? (It is genuine, I'm just not having much luck convincing CIC of that.)

not sure why you were posting this question in the first place. you're way too experienced in this field yourself to know that this differs from case to case and that there is no golden rule.

in addition, if this was true what you stated about Malaysia and Nigeria I really would question both embassies and the underlying decision making processes. they should be using the same standards, procedures and stats. this is not supposed to be gambling... Have you checked ths audit reports?

 

[canadianwoman]

Canadianwoman, when you reapply again, would they relook at your old file to see why you were denied? or is it a total fresh start? like they don't take it into account.

I would say, if they look at your old files, or because they see different country to wait more than 6 months...to be safe i think a year. Because the IO might figure out that is why he went to Malaysia.

I'm sure they look at your old files, but maybe only the CAIPS notes and the appeal decision, not all the evidence I sent in. The problem with reapplying is that if you don't have new evidence they will just say that the case has already been decided, and reject you again. You need new evidence, and not just more evidence of the same kinds of things. For example, evidence of more trips taken to see him, and another year or two of phone bills, won't be enough - I've seen that on many appeal cases.

He went to Malaysia because his application was rejected, that is true. But it was because we wanted to be together, and everything was taking so long. (We applied in January 2008, and the appeal was heard in July 2010.) We discussed where we could go to be together - we needed a place where a Nigerian could get a visa, where it was possible for him to do his business, and where I might be able to get a job. We chose Malaysia, and only after he moved there did he find out how easy it was to get a PR visa from there.

 

[canadianwoman]

not sure why you were posting this question in the first place. you're way too experienced in this field yourself to know that this differs from case to case and that there is no golden rule.

Yes, everything depends on the particular case, but I do value the opinions of other forum members.

in addition, if this was true what you stated about Malaysia and Nigeria I really would question both embassies and the underlying decision making processes. they should be using the same standards, procedures and stats. this is not supposed to be gambling... Have you checked ths audit reports?

I think it is ridiculous as well. Obviously a Nigerian living in Malaysia and a Nigerian living in Nigeria are going to have the same likelihood of entering into a marriage of convenience, but there is a big difference in both wait times and refusal rates. I think the reason is that the staff in the Accra visa office are used to marriage fraud cases, and are supposed to be very suspicious. The staff in Malaysia are not used to a high level of fraud, and treat applicants from other countries the same way, more or less, they treat Malaysian applicants.