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Did not declare my 3rd child even though we were Permanent Residents of Canada.

bigleo2009

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Jan 4, 2015
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Don't know why she can't go through sponsorship process? That is her child, mistake was no declaration, then what? A revoke of her citizenship?

I might be wrong but personally I think this is not a PR application, not a hiding from the beginning... anybody could have mistake or neglection and all those immigration applications seem to be more and more professional and exhausting jobs for an individual...
 

eileenf

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Apr 25, 2013
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Okay. People are confusing a lot of different issues here and giving false information as a result.

1. A child cannot become a citizen by descent unless a parent is a citizen at the time of the child's birth.

2. No one can become a citizen by naturalization unless they are a PR first. Even if this child was added to the application, they would not have been granted citizenship.

3. Leaving a child off a PR application is a big deal and means that the child may be barred from ever coming to Canada. Leaving a newborn off a citizenship application is an entirely different issue and does not seem to be nearly so serious from what I can find.

Yes, it would have been better to include the child, but I challenge anyone to cite a real case where someone went to jail for not including a non-PR newborn on the citizenship application. Before pontificating about whether this woman (who is trying to figure out how to get all her children away from bombing, looting, wartime deprivations, ISIL, rape, economic collapse, war crimes) about whether she risks imprisonment in Canada, please find a good source for your guesses.

Making random guesses and moral judgements without knowledge is unhelpful and cruel.
 

bigleo2009

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Jan 4, 2015
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eileenf said:
Okay. People are confusing a lot of different issues here and giving false information as a result.

1. A child cannot become a citizen by descent unless a parent is a citizen at the time of the child's birth.

2. No one can become a citizen by naturalization unless they are a PR first. Even if this child was added to the application, they would not have been granted citizenship.

3. Leaving a child off a PR application is a big deal and means that the child may be barred from ever coming to Canada. Leaving a newborn off a citizenship application is an entirely different issue and does not seem to be nearly so serious from what I can find.

Yes, it would have been better to include the child, but I challenge anyone to cite a real case where someone went to jail for not including a non-PR newborn on the citizenship application. Before pontificating about whether this woman (who is trying to figure out how to get all her children away from bombing, looting, wartime deprivations, ISIL, rape, economic collapse, war crimes) about whether she risks imprisonment in Canada, please find a good source for your guesses.

Making random guesses and moral judgements without knowledge is unhelpful and cruel.
You are absolutely right 1, 2.

For the point 3 and later, anybody can tell the worst results in this scenario? Lets make no confusion, this was not a child already there before the citizenship application, that would be parents' choice to include the child or not, not a big deal. This was a new born after the application and during the process, parents neglected to declare when before the oath, what will be affecting their citizenship later on? Can the new born still be sponsored by the parents and get approved for PR then citizen after all? Its an interesting question.
 

arambi

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Aug 16, 2014
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bigleo2009 said:
You are absolutely right 1, 2.

For the point 3 and later, anybody can tell the worst results in this scenario? Lets make no confusion, this was not a child already there before the citizenship application, that would be parents' choice to include the child or not, not a big deal. This was a new born after the application and during the process, parents neglected to declare when before the oath, what will be affecting their citizenship later on? Can the new born still be sponsored by the parents and get approved for PR then citizen after all? Its an interesting question.
The key here is the child birth date vs Citizenship application date

1-) If the child was born BEFORE citizenship application date (not test or oath date), then there is a potential for misrepresentation in citizenship application and all the issues they come with...
2-) If the child was born AFTER citizenship application date but before oath, the issue is manageable as one can just say we forgot to add the new born... and sponsor the child for PR
3-) If the child was born AFTER oath date, NO issue... Just need to apply for Canadian Passport for the child
 

montrealia

Star Member
May 12, 2014
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I don't understand the discussion about declaring children in the citizenship application.

I've looked at the application I filled back in 2011 and I didn't declare my Canadian son when I applied, there was no place to declare children in the form!

I didn't declare my second son when he was born after my pre-test RQ and before the test. (I probably talked about him during the interview, but I can't remember.)

Of course, my case is different because my children were born in Canada. However, if the OP filled the same form that I did, there is no misrepresentation here.

That doesn't mean that the document situation is easy. But I think she should be free to seek advice from the embassy/consulate.
 

eileenf

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Apr 25, 2013
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montrealia said:
I've looked at the application I filled back in 2011 and I didn't declare my Canadian son when I applied, there was no place to declare children in the form!
I believe Montrealia is right. The only place in the current form to add information about children in the current adult form is under the request for education documents. This was added relatively recently (early 2013?)

Of course this was a family form, and I can't find a version from 2002, but it's a sure bet that the 2002 application was far simpler, less threatening and less demanding than the current CIC applications. And also, this newborn would not have even been eligible for citizenship with the application because it was not a PR at the time of application.

In short, I don't see any wrongdoing here. If someone thinks they do, please offer proof (a cic document or a court case).
 

b52shot

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Oct 8, 2013
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I don't think the dad ever lived in Canada and didn't want to jeopardize his citizenship application by mentioning that he had a son born overseas. Logically, if he lived in Canada he would have applied to have his son become a PR and brought him to Canada.
 

help_canada

Newbie
Jan 5, 2015
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Thank You Everyone,

I really don't know what my husband declared on the citizenship application or informed the CIC about my son? I do have the birth certificate of my son showing me as the biological mother. If required, I can go for the DNA test as well.

Shall I apply for Canadian Citizenship for my son and see what they have to say or require me to do?
 

alphazip

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May 23, 2013
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help_canada said:
Thank You Everyone,

I really don't know what my husband declared on the citizenship application or informed the CIC about my son? I do have the birth certificate of my son showing me as the biological mother. If required, I can go for the DNA test as well.

Shall I apply for Canadian Citizenship for my son and see what they have to say or require me to do?
You can only apply for a Citizenship certificate for your son if he was born AFTER you became a Canadian citizen. If not, he would need to become a Permanent Resident before he could become a citizen.
 

arambi

Hero Member
Aug 16, 2014
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alphazip said:
You can only apply for a Citizenship certificate for your son if he was born AFTER you became a Canadian citizen. If not, he would need to become a Permanent Resident before he could become a citizen.
As some previouly suggested, you may need to go to the closest embassy with your proof of canadian citizenship (same for your other kids if you have their proof of citizenship as well) and ask them what you need to do in order to travel as earlier as possible with all your children to Canada, including any child who do not have proof of canadian citizenship.
Be prepared to answer question about the father not being there... However, in most cases, they will allow the biological mother to travel with children... (there is generally a concern when one parent is planning to travel with children out-of-country without express consent from the other parent)
 

bigleo2009

Member
Jan 4, 2015
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help_canada said:
Thank You Everyone,

I really don't know what my husband declared on the citizenship application or informed the CIC about my son? I do have the birth certificate of my son showing me as the biological mother. If required, I can go for the DNA test as well.

Shall I apply for Canadian Citizenship for my son and see what they have to say or require me to do?
You have to tell time your citizenship was applied, little child was born and oath was took. Was the child born before or after the application?
That way many experienced people here at this forum can help you.
 

raymasa

Star Member
Apr 12, 2014
178
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eileenf said:
I believe Montrealia is right. The only place in the current form to add information about children in the current adult form is under the request for education documents. This was added relatively recently (early 2013?)

Of course this was a family form, and I can't find a version from 2002, but it's a sure bet that the 2002 application was far simpler, less threatening and less demanding than the current CIC applications. And also, this newborn would not have even been eligible for citizenship with the application because it was not a PR at the time of application.

In short, I don't see any wrongdoing here. If someone thinks they do, please offer proof (a cic document or a court case).
As Eileen pointed out, the application form in 2002 was much simpler. And it did not had any questions regarding children. Here is the link to the 2002 citizenship application toolkit (including the application, starting on page 14) for adults:

https://web.archive.org/web/20020214225535/http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdffiles/citizen/KIT14.PDF

There is of course, a separate form for minors as well, which I assume would needed to be completed for each of the children.

Here is a link from 2002 CIC page for citizenship

https://web.archive.org/web/20020217125805/http://www.cic.gc.ca/English/citizen/index.html

Ray

P.S. Also as others have mentioned. Please don't speard unfounded rumors, state your opinions as facts or accuse people of doing things they shouldn't be. You don't know the OPs situation, if she did or did not fulfill her residency (and she said she has). And while that would be not right to do in any circumstance, as been mentioned by others, the OP is trying to get herself and all her kids out of a very bad situation. I am sure you would do the same if you were in her shoes, but hope none of us find ourselves in her shoes. And hope she find a solution quickly