criminal background....cautioned v charged

[angelbrat]

I ask this question for a friend whom has a caution for 'obtaining goods by fraud'.....he is from the UK and currently seeking PR status.

Two years ago was cautioned by the police for this crime...even although he gained nothing and the police investigation resulted in them being happy he had made a genuine mistake, as he had technically committed a crime they decided to not charge but caution him.

This will be on his police record as a caution.

I have looked everywhere on the forms and sites available, as he has, and no where does it state any information about being cautioned for a crime as opposed to being charged.

Will this police record affect his PR application???

Senior people....any ideas about this????

Thanks

 

[PMM]

Hi

I ask this question for a friend whom has a caution for 'obtaining goods by fraud'.....he is from the UK and currently seeking PR status.

Two years ago was cautioned by the police for this crime...even although he gained nothing and the police investigation resulted in them being happy he had made a genuine mistake, as he had technically committed a crime they decided to not charge but caution him.

This will be on his police record as a caution.

I have looked everywhere on the forms and sites available, as he has, and no where does it state any information about being cautioned for a crime as opposed to being charged.

Will this police record affect his PR application???

Senior people....any ideas about this????

Thanks

By accepting the caution "your friend" admitted he committed the crime.

PMM

 

[angelbrat]

ahhhhhh...i guess 'my friend'...actually my brother;s.....application for PR will be turned down ...although he visits me frequently and has never had any trouble being admitted into Canada as a visitor but then again the border guards have never asked him about his criminal background and it appears that there is no direct link to police records via passports....

I still have difficulty though trying to find out how long he will have to be rehabilitated, when there was no sentence for the crime. Would it be from when the crime was committed or when the police decided to just caution him????

All the information seems to assume that someone has been charged and sentenced for a crime.... no where is there any information about someone that has just been cautioned for a crime.

And by the way....the crime was using someones credit card whilst they were not in attendance (he didn't sign anything....just used the card for them)...even though he had permission from the owner of the credit card to use it. Hence, the reason he just got cautioned, there was no gain and was a genuine mistake not knowing the law.

Seems like in Canada that is not a criminal offense but it is deemed an offense in UK, would that make a difference???

 

[Karlshammar]

I am not sure that you are correct that it is not a crime in Canada, but IF something is not a crime in Canada it will not be held against him, even if it is a crime in another country.

 

[ImmEnforce]

This excerpt is taken from the Rehabilitation of offenders act 1974

Cautions

Cautions, reprimands and final warnings are not criminal convictions and so are not dealt with by the Act. So if people with cautions, reprimands or final warnings only are asked whether they have any 'criminal convictions' they can answer 'no'. Sometimes people are asked if they have a 'criminal record'. This is a less precise term, but it is usually understood to mean convictions. So people who are asked if they have a 'criminal record' may also answer 'no' if they have no convictions.

However, people who are specifically asked if they have cautions, reprimands or final warnings should disclose them until they are deleted from police records. Records of cautions should be deleted after five years if there are no convictions on the record. (In practice, some police forces may retain records of cautions for much longer than this or indefinitely.)

He may have admitted it the criminal offence. But, it's the conviction that we care about. Should be absolutely no issues coming to Canada.

 

[Raman_Ram]

Regarding extension of Post Grad Work Permit

Hello ImmOfficer this post of mine is unrelated to the topic, I have a specific question for you. I tried sending this to your personal inbox, but its saying recipient address is invalid. so apologies to all for jumping into this discussion.

I am eligible for 3 yr post grad work permit. However I was issued for only 20 months as my old passport was expiring by the 20th month. I applied for an extension of my post grad work permit after acquiring a new passport. Its been almost 45 days and I haven't received it yet.
When I was a student, I remember any application for study permit or work permit were issued within 2 weeks.
Also I sent my application to the unit in Vegreville that processes extensions, but does n't state Post Grad Work Permit extensions need to apply here specifically. The other unit deals only with new permits including Post Grad ones. I approached the local CIC office in Calgary and they too were bit confused about this, whether I shuld send it to the one that obviously states its for extensions but doesnt include Post Grad ones or send it to the one that includes Post Grad Work permit but only for new applications.
What should I do now? The official waiting time for extensions is 86 days and 16 days for new applications.
Did I do the right thing?

and also I recently sent my immig application to sydney, NS. I am legally in canada for the last 4 yrs and 3 months. I have a canadian 2 yrs chem engg masters. rt now i am unemployed. would that affect my application? or would they see that i fit into FSW 3 and process my application? If yes, would it be given less importance in processing at buffalo because i am unemployed currently in Canada?

if you could, please provide me with answers. thanks in advance.

 

[PMM]

Hi

This excerpt is taken from the Rehabilitation of offenders act 1974

Cautions

Cautions, reprimands and final warnings are not criminal convictions and so are not dealt with by the Act. So if people with cautions, reprimands or final warnings only are asked whether they have any 'criminal convictions' they can answer 'no'. Sometimes people are asked if they have a 'criminal record'. This is a less precise term, but it is usually understood to mean convictions. So people who are asked if they have a 'criminal record' may also answer 'no' if they have no convictions.

However, people who are specifically asked if they have cautions, reprimands or final warnings should disclose them until they are deleted from police records. Records of cautions should be deleted after five years if there are no convictions on the record. (In practice, some police forces may retain records of cautions for much longer than this or indefinitely.)

He may have admitted it the criminal offence. But, it's the conviction that we care about. Should be absolutely no issues coming to Canada.

I think you should re-think your reply, in the UK a caution is by a senior police officer and it is an admission of the offence committed. The person doesn't have to accept the caution, but if they don't they will be formally charged.

PMM

 

[ImmEnforce]

Thanks PMM for the offer but I will have to decline. It's refreshing to have a discussion with someone polite.

Two years ago was cautioned by the police for this crime...even although he gained nothing and the police investigation resulted in them being happy he had made a genuine mistake, as he had technically committed a crime they decided to not charge but caution him.

I my opinion that would be an inappropriate use of the section you are thinking about based on the information provided. It's not as simple as an officer deciding not to lay a charge. The caution/reprimand options appear to be an accepted part of the UK judicial system.

The charges are either laid and later withdrawn or never laid to begin with. Either way I do not see a successful use of "C" in this case.

It appears to be an out of court settlement option to avoid the court system. Similar to a deferral issued after an admission in court.

 

[Karlshammar]

Raman_Ram,

Please start a new thread in the appropriate category with your inquiry. Thanks!

 

[PMM]

Hi

Thanks PMM for the offer but I will have to decline. It's refreshing to have a discussion with someone polite.

Two years ago was cautioned by the police for this crime...even although he gained nothing and the police investigation resulted in them being happy he had made a genuine mistake, as he had technically committed a crime they decided to not charge but caution him.

I my opinion that would be an inappropriate use of the section you are thinking about based on the information provided. It's not as simple as an officer deciding not to lay a charge. The caution/reprimand options appear to be an accepted part of the UK judicial system.

The charges are either laid and later withdrawn or never laid to begin with. Either way I do not see a successful use of "C" in this case.

It appears to be an out of court settlement option to avoid the court system. Similar to a deferral issued after an admission in court.

But it is the admission of the "crime" that occurred, and when the OP obtains his/her PCC from the UK it will show "no live trace" which means that there is an offence recorded, but under the UK offender's Act it is no longer reportable because of the passage of time in the UK. Or the record will show. The OP should have his/her friend obtain their ACPO check to see what appears on it.


PMM

 

[angelbrat]

Thank you for the responses....

To date after talking to both a Canadian Immigration lawyer and an Immigration Officer...both have agreed that having a caution on your police record does not constitute as being inadmissible nor alter your PR application.

It appears that Immigration are only concerned with any 'crime' committed that you have stood in front of a judge for and been convicted no matter how petty or serious.

They do however advise that additional information is sent with the PR application to clarify what constitutes a caution in the UK and what 'crime' was committed, as this can be a 'grey' area for some Immigration Officers when assessing the application.

However...as ImmOfficer stated...they both agree that a caution is acceptable in Canada and regardless if it is on a police record or not does not make you inadmissible.

The UK also has two tiers of law..... a crime and breaking the law...many people inadvertently break the law through ignorance. Whilst this is not an excuse..the police, after investigation, will issue a caution to that person once they are satisfied it was a mistake. The reason the caution goes onto your record, is whilst they allow a mistake once....they will not allow it twice...and they have to be extremely sure that the crime committed was through genuine ignorance of the law or a genuine mistake.

Other Countries have different types of convictions...and Canada does make the effort to acknowledge the different types of convictions and crimes and generally accept the decisions made by the Countries law enforcement.

 

[angelbrat]

whooops my apologies....i should have posted ImmEnforce not ImmOfficer....i blame the blonde hair....

 

[ImmEnforce]

The note that I may add....

My knowledge and experience is based on In Canada application of the admissibility sections. They should be interpreted the same for overseas applications. But, the systems are a little different and may have evolved into slightly different interpretations.

For "Committing an act" admissibility the general question we ask is "Has the foreign legislative system had an opportunity to properly adjudicate an offence and what was their decision"

 

[bsagnier]

This excerpt is taken from the Rehabilitation of offenders act 1974
He may have admitted it the criminal offence. But, it's the conviction that we care about. Should be absolutely no issues coming to Canada.

A few months ago, I was going out with a girl who is 3 years younger than me and her father wasn't very happy so he called the police because of "malicious behaviour". I spent about 6 hours at the police station, i was interviewed, had my fingerprints and picture taken. In the end, I was given a caution. However, I am in the process of apply for my Study Permit to study at Concordia University but there is a question saying:

"Have you ever committed, been arrested for, been charged with or convicted of any criminal office in any country?"

I realise that I did a stupid mistake and that is why I am worried because canada is quite strict about this stuff I head.

What should I put as an answer. If I say yes, I must fill out the IMM 5257 Schedule 1...

 

[Imperia]

I have a question for you: a person was convicted for procurement (buying) of drugs (marijuana), without having the purpose to sell them (for personal use) in may 1999 (outside of Canada, he had a period of probation. That period of probation he passed successfully and received even amnesty, in the same year. The person completed his sentence in October 1999.
During all this period he was an exemplary citizen of the country (outside of canada). Also he became the citizen of Portugal, before he was a citizen of an Eastern Europe country.
Now he is in his process of immigration to Canada. Can you tell which are his to obtain visa for permanent residence in Canada?
Thank you for your answer.