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Administrative review for refused CSQ application

powereng1982

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Jun 4, 2021
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Hello

As our CSQ application was refused due to low score, we are planning to apply for administrative review.

To prepare the cover letter, I would need some suggestions/advise. I would like to know someone with such experience. Thanks
 

avanoob0712

Full Member
Nov 9, 2022
36
14
You have to consult a good immigration lawyer, try to find one local. Your case lacks quite a few scores. The chance is there but you have to consider to not waste your time. What's your reasoning for administrative review ?
 
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powereng1982

Hero Member
Jun 4, 2021
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You have to consult a good immigration lawyer, try to find one local. Your case lacks quite a few scores. The chance is there but you have to consider to not waste your time. What's your reasoning for administrative review ?
We received a low score 48/59 from total and 39/52 for employeability. At first, we were panic when we received the intention letter of refusal and a very low score for our application.

We were given two months to respond, however, considering a big difference in the required score, we decided to resubmit our application without providing additional document and we just requested MIFI to send our application to minister to approve under imiigration law section 58 (minister can approve low scorer if minister think applicant is important for Quebec). However our application was refused and MIFI did not send it to ministrial review

After the rejection, we noticed that our score report contained many mistakes. There are 9 geniun points that were not given to our application

For example:
1. MIFI scored 12 points for a VJO in Estrie region, whereas, score for VJO in Estrie is 13 points instead. We lost 1 point
2. Main applicant is working for more than 6 months in Quebec. MIFI scored 0. We lost 4 points
3.Main applicant spent 10 months in Quebec as visitor. MIFI scored 0. We lost 2 points
4. Main applicant submiited a university bachelor degree 2 years course. MIFI score 4, whereas a university 2 years should give 6 points. We lost 2 points.

Due to mistake by MIFI officer, we lost 9 points. With 9 additional points, our score would have been 57/59 from total and 48/52 for employeability. Thats a completely different picture. In that case, we only required 4 additional points to qualify. Attempting and getting 4 band in IELTS test (one of the lowest band) would easily give us 4 points.

However, due to MIFI's miscalculated low score, we lost a chance of using 2 months that we were given. We approached to MIFI and informed them about this mistake, but they replied that since decision has been made, the only way to address such matters is through administrative review. They suggested us to apply for administrative review. We plan for an IELTS test in next 1-2 weeks. Once we have these 4 points in hand, we are going to apply for administrative review with additional documents.

We really never expected this can happen in a country like Canada. While each point is equally important, mistake of 9 points is beyond understanding. I have no idea ow these officers work and process thousands of application every month. I am sure we will not be only victim of such mistakes from officers
 
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avanoob0712

Full Member
Nov 9, 2022
36
14
In this case, an appointment with lawyer is much needed. They'll help you review your application. Take the IELTS asap, even better if you can take a French test.
 
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powereng1982

Hero Member
Jun 4, 2021
880
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Canada
In this case, an appointment with lawyer is much needed. They'll help you review your application. Take the IELTS asap, even better if you can take a French test.
Thank. Yes French test would give many points however, unfortuantely, we are not good in French. With given situation (we feel so stressfull at the moment), only attempting IELTS and getting 4 points seems possible. Additionally I am spouse and I have completed a 1 year postgraduate diploma in Quebec this week. This may also add 1 point to our profile.
 

vision2011

Star Member
Jul 4, 2012
79
18
We received a low score 48/59 from total and 39/52 for employeability. At first, we were panic when we received the intention letter of refusal and a very low score for our application.

We were given two months to respond, however, considering a big difference in the required score, we decided to resubmit our application without providing additional document and we just requested MIFI to send our application to minister to approve under imiigration law section 58 (minister can approve low scorer if minister think applicant is important for Quebec). However our application was refused and MIFI did not send it to ministrial review

After the rejection, we noticed that our score report contained many mistakes. There are 9 geniun points that were not given to our application

For example:
1. MIFI scored 12 points for a VJO in Estrie region, whereas, score for VJO in Estrie is 13 points instead. We lost 1 point
2. Main applicant is working for more than 6 months in Quebec. MIFI scored 0. We lost 4 points
3.Main applicant spent 10 months in Quebec as visitor. MIFI scored 0. We lost 2 points
4. Main applicant submiited a university bachelor degree 2 years course. MIFI score 4, whereas a university 2 years should give 6 points. We lost 2 points.

Due to mistake by MIFI officer, we lost 9 points. With 9 additional points, our score would have been 57/59 from total and 48/52 for employeability. Thats a completely different picture. In that case, we only required 4 additional points to qualify. Attempting and getting 4 band in IELTS test (one of the lowest band) would easily give us 4 points.

However, due to MIFI's miscalculated low score, we lost a chance of using 2 months that we were given. We approached to MIFI and informed them about this mistake, but they replied that since decision has been made, the only way to address such matters is through administrative review. They suggested us to apply for administrative review. We plan for an IELTS test in next 1-2 weeks. Once we have these 4 points in hand, we are going to apply for administrative review with additional documents.

We really never expected this can happen in a country like Canada. While each point is equally important, mistake of 9 points is beyond understanding. I have no idea ow these officers work and process thousands of application every month. I am sure we will not be only victim of such mistakes from officers
Hi Powereng,

I think you rushed to respond and you did not show that you are able to do whatever it takes and show them that you tried/trying harder.
Then, they can help you out. And another thing is that if you love Quebec and want to stay there, acknowledge that at some point they will have some unfair decision regardless of being a developed country.

I tell you my own story, it is not the first time I apply to Quebec. In 2010 I was still doing my bachelor's, then I had an application in process with Quebec, we were not required to provide any language test at the time. Where you come from and where you studied your degree and your work experience you had could determine your points of acceptance. After my graduation, I updated my application with my degree excited that I am going to Quebec in 2012. Guess what, the decision was made without considering my degree in computer science and I was not even given the opportunity to defend myself, because the argument was around my degree and the little work experience I had, which one could have been considered (not both) - some messed up things like that. I applied for a review because at the time I applied, there were no such rules and there couldn't be used against my application. At the time it was taking forever to make an administrative review, and I gave up and withdrew my application, but I learned that the Minister has given a green light to my application if I would have waited for a little time they were about to send me the CSQ. They added, if I am still interested in Quebec, I can apply again and submit a new application from scratch. I went straight to the Minister, and I told her the truth that I was exhausted and at the time I was studying abroad and it was hard to deal with immigration, school, and life in general. Then she put a condition to my face - if you take a French test and get B1 at least I will give you the CSQ (this came from the Minister's cabinet). Being graduated in a foreign country, and looking for jobs, I had no money for the French test or time to prepare for it to save my CSQ. The good news at the time, I had the opportunity to go somewhere else and it was less torturous. And here again, I am doing it from scratch.

I learned one important thing, you can argue about unfairness as much as you can, but it will just hurt you more. And sometimes there is a light in our path and we (the majority) ignore it. The truth about Administrative Review, they only look at the information that was available at the time the agent made a decision. To me now, I see that you have even closed that door the Minister could have acted on. Guess what, Administrative Review will just look at the points you are claiming above and say you do not have sufficient points. This is completely different from the following, "I see your effort and I am confident that you are going to do well in Quebec". You could have waited for your degree and taken an English test. You are in Quebec, if you could have taken French and gotten even A2 it would have made a big difference (not points for the French, but the effort and willingness to align your vision with the government requirements - it is a ticket itself).

Another thing you have to know, these guys at MIFI operate on a sheet, they check what you have provided against that sheet. If nothing, they make a decision accordingly, and they have no power beyond that. Your request to forward your application to the Minister, it is not for them to do. Your job here was to give them the strongest application ever with your maximum effort. Then during the administrative review, the Minister can have the opportunity to let you pass. This is how you make it from what I have seen around the World. And another thing you ignored that I am seeing now, using a lawyer in a situation like this is handy because instead of going that the agent made a mistake, you could have sent a nice explanation letter saying about your discoveries. Trust me, even if they have access to all information, it was your opportunity to provide evidence that you have been in the country that amount of time you are claiming, the region where your job offer is - a printed document from the immigration website you are referencing to, a letter of service that the Main applicant has been working full time more than 6 months. This alone could have saved you.

If I were in your shoes, I would seek help (a lawyer) and alternatively, take the English test and create another Arrima account for a new EOI if possible - I have no idea, but not only in hope with Ministerial Discretion. One thing you could have done for sure, you let them reject a strong application. That's it.

I hope things will get better in the end.

Cheers,

V.
 
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powereng1982

Hero Member
Jun 4, 2021
880
374
42
Canada
Hi Powereng,

I think you rushed to respond and you did not show that you are able to do whatever it takes and show them that you tried/trying harder.
Then, they can help you out. And another thing is that if you love Quebec and want to stay there, acknowledge that at some point they will have some unfair decision regardless of being a developed country.

I tell you my own story, it is not the first time I apply to Quebec. In 2010 I was still doing my bachelor's, then I had an application in process with Quebec, we were not required to provide any language test at the time. Where you come from and where you studied your degree and your work experience you had could determine your points of acceptance. After my graduation, I updated my application with my degree excited that I am going to Quebec in 2012. Guess what, the decision was made without considering my degree in computer science and I was not even given the opportunity to defend myself, because the argument was around my degree and the little work experience I had, which one could have been considered (not both) - some messed up things like that. I applied for a review because at the time I applied, there were no such rules and there couldn't be used against my application. At the time it was taking forever to make an administrative review, and I gave up and withdrew my application, but I learned that the Minister has given a green light to my application if I would have waited for a little time they were about to send me the CSQ. They added, if I am still interested in Quebec, I can apply again and submit a new application from scratch. I went straight to the Minister, and I told her the truth that I was exhausted and at the time I was studying abroad and it was hard to deal with immigration, school, and life in general. Then she put a condition to my face - if you take a French test and get B1 at least I will give you the CSQ (this came from the Minister's cabinet). Being graduated in a foreign country, and looking for jobs, I had no money for the French test or time to prepare for it to save my CSQ. The good news at the time, I had the opportunity to go somewhere else and it was less torturous. And here again, I am doing it from scratch.

I learned one important thing, you can argue about unfairness as much as you can, but it will just hurt you more. And sometimes there is a light in our path and we (the majority) ignore it. The truth about Administrative Review, they only look at the information that was available at the time the agent made a decision. To me now, I see that you have even closed that door the Minister could have acted on. Guess what, Administrative Review will just look at the points you are claiming above and say you do not have sufficient points. This is completely different from the following, "I see your effort and I am confident that you are going to do well in Quebec". You could have waited for your degree and taken an English test. You are in Quebec, if you could have taken French and gotten even A2 it would have made a big difference (not points for the French, but the effort and willingness to align your vision with the government requirements - it is a ticket itself).

Another thing you have to know, these guys at MIFI operate on a sheet, they check what you have provided against that sheet. If nothing, they make a decision accordingly, and they have no power beyond that. Your request to forward your application to the Minister, it is not for them to do. Your job here was to give them the strongest application ever with your maximum effort. Then during the administrative review, the Minister can have the opportunity to let you pass. This is how you make it from what I have seen around the World. And another thing you ignored that I am seeing now, using a lawyer in a situation like this is handy because instead of going that the agent made a mistake, you could have sent a nice explanation letter saying about your discoveries. Trust me, even if they have access to all information, it was your opportunity to provide evidence that you have been in the country that amount of time you are claiming, the region where your job offer is - a printed document from the immigration website you are referencing to, a letter of service that the Main applicant has been working full time more than 6 months. This alone could have saved you.

If I were in your shoes, I would seek help (a lawyer) and alternatively, take the English test and create another Arrima account for a new EOI if possible - I have no idea, but not only in hope with Ministerial Discretion. One thing you could have done for sure, you let them reject a strong application. That's it.

I hope things will get better in the end.

Cheers,

V.
Thanks and I totally agree with that.

Yes, may be we were hoping high (or expecting too much) to have a ministrial support based on our belief that:

- My wife has a validated job offer outside the montreal area
- My wife holds a job that MIFI has set to process with priority (simlified LMIA procedure)
- Our kids are enrolled in French schools
- I myslef holds a doctorate in electrical (one of the most demanded skill in Quebec)
- We have lived and fully integrated in Quebec
- We have taken and successfully completed beginner French courses in Quebec approved government institutes

Applying again wouldn't work for us anymore because now there is an additional deducation of 2 points due to age. (we have a difference of age now since we applied last time).

Since my existing job contract is going to expire soon, I have started applying for a new jobs and expecting a job interview by next week. If works then well, alternatively we have planned to move outside Quebec to spend and try our remaining 18 months
 

vision2011

Star Member
Jul 4, 2012
79
18
Thanks and I totally agree with that.

Yes, may be we were hoping high (or expecting too much) to have a ministrial support based on our belief that:

- My wife has a validated job offer outside the montreal area
- My wife holds a job that MIFI has set to process with priority (simlified LMIA procedure)
- Our kids are enrolled in French schools
- I myslef holds a doctorate in electrical (one of the most demanded skill in Quebec)
- We have lived and fully integrated in Quebec
- We have taken and successfully completed beginner French courses in Quebec approved government institutes

Applying again wouldn't work for us anymore because now there is an additional deducation of 2 points due to age. (we have a difference of age now since we applied last time).

Since my existing job contract is going to expire soon, I have started applying for a new jobs and expecting a job interview by next week. If works then well, alternatively we have planned to move outside Quebec to spend and try our remaining 18 months
I am puzzled now actually, you have a very strong profile. Why haven’t you considered a pilot program AI & IT? Don’t you fall under these occupations: 2133 and 2241? And there is no age discrimination apart from having 2 yrs of work experience in last 5 yrs and a job offer paying higher as per the NOC Code. I am not quite sure about were you are, but I would consider jobs like in mining or energy company usually pays reasonably well to have what they are looking for. I am sorry, I have no idea about Canadian job market, I could be talking nonsense now.
 
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powereng1982

Hero Member
Jun 4, 2021
880
374
42
Canada
I am puzzled now actually, you have a very strong profile. Why haven’t you considered a pilot program AI & IT? Don’t you fall under these occupations: 2133 and 2241? And there is no age discrimination apart from having 2 yrs of work experience in last 5 yrs and a job offer paying higher as per the NOC Code. I am not quite sure about were you are, but I would consider jobs like in mining or energy company usually pays reasonably well to have what they are looking for. I am sorry, I have no idea about Canadian job market, I could be talking nonsense now.
Thanks, I highly appreciate you for your sincerely inputs.

I have been working as postdoc (NOC 41200 or old NOC 4011) in Sherbrooke since november 2021, I work for energy managemnt.


I have an interview next week for a job with NOC 2133 (or similar one) for a project related to energy management in mining sector
 
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