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Frequent Traveler to US from Canada

pdhillon

Hero Member
Oct 29, 2014
412
107
123
Winnipeg
Hello,
I am full time truck driver from Canada. I drive to US and spend 3 to 4 days in a week while driving in States. I calculated my days of physical present and it shows that i meet eligibility requirement without mentioning my trips. So can someone tell me do I have to write each & every trip to US in my application ? coz they are too many as I am long hauling to US for last 2 yrs. Thanks
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,304
3,066
Hello,
I am full time truck driver from Canada. I drive to US and spend 3 to 4 days in a week while driving in States. I calculated my days of physical present and it shows that i meet eligibility requirement without mentioning my trips. So can someone tell me do I have to write each & every trip to US in my application ? coz they are too many as I am long hauling to US for last 2 yrs. Thanks
Calculation without mentioning trips to the U.S. is worthless if there are any trips which involved being in the States overnight for two or more consecutive nights.

In any event, all international travel, regardless of the reason, needs to be declared. Even day trips must be declared.

Calendar day for a day started in Canada counts as a day in Canada. Calendar day for a day in which the PR returned to Canada counts as a day in Canada. Any full days in-between are days absent from Canada. That is, days that will not count toward meeting the citizenship presence requirements.

If you have been regularly making runs into the states which result in regularly spending two or three consecutive nights in the states, that will add a considerable amount of time overall before you will be eligible for citizenship.

Obviously, PRs should keep up-to-date, complete and accurate records of all international travel, but apparently more than a few fail to do this. Among those who fail to keep accurate records of their trips, long-haul truckers are lucky compared to many others who travel to the states regularly attendant employment, since a trucker has his mandatory logs to help reconstruct all the dates of exit and dates of entry into Canada.

The good news is that CBSA probably has near complete records of every date of return to Canada, so their records should verify yours assuming you do the due diligence and accurately report every trip. (Obviously, this is bad news if you fail to report all trips.)
 

pdhillon

Hero Member
Oct 29, 2014
412
107
123
Winnipeg
Thanks for your reply, I kept most of my records but i am missing couple of my log books , Is there any website or source from where I can get my record of travel to US. I heard there are some but I can't find them.
Calculation without mentioning trips to the U.S. is worthless if there are any trips which involved being in the States overnight for two or more consecutive nights.

In any event, all international travel, regardless of the reason, needs to be declared. Even day trips must be declared.

Calendar day for a day started in Canada counts as a day in Canada. Calendar day for a day in which the PR returned to Canada counts as a day in Canada. Any full days in-between are days absent from Canada. That is, days that will not count toward meeting the citizenship presence requirements.

If you have been regularly making runs into the states which result in regularly spending two or three consecutive nights in the states, that will add a considerable amount of time overall before you will be eligible for citizenship.

Obviously, PRs should keep up-to-date, complete and accurate records of all international travel, but apparently more than a few fail to do this. Among those who fail to keep accurate records of their trips, long-haul truckers are lucky compared to many others who travel to the states regularly attendant employment, since a trucker has his mandatory logs to help reconstruct all the dates of exit and dates of entry into Canada.

The good news is that CBSA probably has near complete records of every date of return to Canada, so their records should verify yours assuming you do the due diligence and accurately report every trip. (Obviously, this is bad news if you fail to report all trips.)
 

razerblade

VIP Member
Feb 21, 2014
4,197
1,355
Thanks for your reply, I kept most of my records but i am missing couple of my log books , Is there any website or source from where I can get my record of travel to US. I heard there are some but I can't find them.
Not sure what kind of VISA did you need to cross the border from Canada to US. Doubt it was i94, but if it was you can use the following link to instantly retrieve your records. Do keep in mind that they are not entirely accurate all the time, and may even be missing some entries.

https://i94.cbp.dhs.gov/I94/

You can also order your CBSA records using the link below (takes 30-40 days):
https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/agency-agence/reports-rapports/pia-efvp/atip-aiprp/thr-rav-eng.html

Similar US records can be ordered under FOIA, I believe. More information in the link below.
https://www.cbp.gov/site-policy-notices/foia/records
 

pdhillon

Hero Member
Oct 29, 2014
412
107
123
Winnipeg
Not sure what kind of VISA did you need to cross the border from Canada to US. Doubt it was i94, but if it was you can use the following link to instantly retrieve your records. Do keep in mind that they are not entirely accurate all the time, and may even be missing some entries.

https://i94.cbp.dhs.gov/I94/

You can also order your CBSA records using the link below (takes 30-40 days):
https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/agency-agence/reports-rapports/pia-efvp/atip-aiprp/thr-rav-eng.html

Similar US records can be ordered under FOIA, I believe. More information in the link below.
https://www.cbp.gov/site-policy-notices/foia/records
I got Visitor Visa (B1 & B2) & used I94 to travel . I will check these links .
Thanks
 

uncomfortable

Hero Member
May 11, 2017
234
96
Obviously, PRs should keep up-to-date, complete and accurate records of all international travel, but apparently more than a few fail to do this.
Very true but very patronizing and hardly that obvious.

Keeping a record of one's trips is not something people commonly do, especially those who travel regularly and frequently. Quite a lot of people do not necessarily think of applying to become PR of another country at some point in their life, and people may also become PR without necessarily thinking about citizenship requirements. And these requirements do change through time, so it is not possible to know what information will be needed once the individual becomes eligible and/or decides to apply for citizenship.

Obviously, Canada has the right to set its own eligibility criteria for citizenship and applicants need to do their best to comply, but I think it should be appreciated, especially in this forum, that in some cases it may be far from trivial for potential applicants to re-build their travel records.
On a personal note, when I applied for PR it came as a bit of a shock to me that I was required to provide a list of all the international trips taken during the 10 years prior to my application: that involved a few nights ploughing through my emails looking for flight bookings, hotel confirmations and car rental agreements, ending up in a list of a few hundred items that I am sure left out dozens of other trips, since I had lived in a European country very close to two national borders and I was regularly going grocery shopping to a neighbor country.
My effort was considered sufficient by IRCC, the records were provided "to the best of my recollection", so here I am as a PR.
And it was for pure passion of record-keeping that I updated that list throughout my days in Canada as a PR, not imagining that would represent an essential piece of information when, a few years later, I decided to apply for citizenship. In fact, I had always known that presence in Canada was going to be based on years of "residence" rather than days of "physical presence". Of course, I was not familiar with the requirements for citizenship back then, neither did I care that much. And when my time came to fill in the Physical Presence Calculator, I had to redo the entire list I had kept in order to adapt it to the specific requirements of IRCC and to its specific definitions: it's not a foregone conclusion that as long as you spend one minute in Canada during a solar day, that day is counted as a day of presence in Canada. Quite the opposite.

In conclusion, I find it unpleasantly irritating to scold someone for not doing something that very few people do (i.e. "keep up-to-date, complete and accurate records of all international travel) if not to serve a specific purpose which may have appeared on the radar of the potential applicant only in the recent past.

I take this opportunity to wish everyone a happy new year, for some the first one as Canadians.
 

aaamr

Star Member
Oct 14, 2017
107
45
Very true but very patronizing and hardly that obvious.

Keeping a record of one's trips is not something people commonly do, especially those who travel regularly and frequently. Quite a lot of people do not necessarily think of applying to become PR of another country at some point in their life, and people may also become PR without necessarily thinking about citizenship requirements. And these requirements do change through time, so it is not possible to know what information will be needed once the individual becomes eligible and/or decides to apply for citizenship.

Obviously, Canada has the right to set its own eligibility criteria for citizenship and applicants need to do their best to comply, but I think it should be appreciated, especially in this forum, that in some cases it may be far from trivial for potential applicants to re-build their travel records.
On a personal note, when I applied for PR it came as a bit of a shock to me that I was required to provide a list of all the international trips taken during the 10 years prior to my application: that involved a few nights ploughing through my emails looking for flight bookings, hotel confirmations and car rental agreements, ending up in a list of a few hundred items that I am sure left out dozens of other trips, since I had lived in a European country very close to two national borders and I was regularly going grocery shopping to a neighbor country.
My effort was considered sufficient by IRCC, the records were provided "to the best of my recollection", so here I am as a PR.
And it was for pure passion of record-keeping that I updated that list throughout my days in Canada as a PR, not imagining that would represent an essential piece of information when, a few years later, I decided to apply for citizenship. In fact, I had always known that presence in Canada was going to be based on years of "residence" rather than days of "physical presence". Of course, I was not familiar with the requirements for citizenship back then, neither did I care that much. And when my time came to fill in the Physical Presence Calculator, I had to redo the entire list I had kept in order to adapt it to the specific requirements of IRCC and to its specific definitions: it's not a foregone conclusion that as long as you spend one minute in Canada during a solar day, that day is counted as a day of presence in Canada. Quite the opposite.

In conclusion, I find it unpleasantly irritating to scold someone for not doing something that very few people do (i.e. "keep up-to-date, complete and accurate records of all international travel) if not to serve a specific purpose which may have appeared on the radar of the potential applicant only in the recent past.

I take this opportunity to wish everyone a happy new year, for some the first one as Canadians.

I disagree... if you have plans to apply for citizenship, it is your responsibility to (1) understand the requirements, and (2) keep appropriate records. I became a PR in 2003. The first time I engaged with the citizenship process, I did not have all of the records, so I started keeping a very detailed log in a spreadsheet until I had enough data to apply from a solid fact base. This took, as you can imagine, about 5 years. I did not submit my citizenship application until September 2017.

Regardless, even if you are not applying for citizenship but want to maintain your PR status, there are residency obligations that require similar record keeping. The first time I renewed my PR card, it was a 6 hour ordeal combing through emails and expense reports and travel records to provide the required information. I never wanted to do that again... now it is an easy process as I keep it up to date.

As an expat living in a foreign country, it should be standard operating procedure to keep these records.

If you are a US citizen, you also need to keep records of "days in the US" for any given tax year, as it has tax implications when filing your US tax return.

Happy new year all,

A.
 
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uncomfortable

Hero Member
May 11, 2017
234
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I disagree... if you have plans to apply for citizenship..
But you may not have plans to apply for citizenship! They might just come later in your life and when you start thinking about it, then you start wondering what you have to do, as seems to be the case for the OP. No point in playing the headmaster with the red pen and the stick.

That's what I was trying to say.

For my part, God bless Tripit.com (disclaimer: I have no affiliations with the product, I am just a satisfied user): it made my life much easier from this specific point of view!
 

luvincanada

Newbie
Dec 22, 2017
2
0
From what I have seen this is what they might ask you since you travel a lot for work:
1. Photocopy of all pages of your passport(s) or travel documents
2. Entry and Exit records ( You can easily ask CBSA to provide one for you as mentioned earlier) I would actually go ahead and request it beforehand and submit it with my application so that it doesnt get returned.
3. Along with that, I would write a letter of explanation to the citizenship officer. This letter is to explain your situation (ie i travel a lot for work and refer him/her to the entry and exit record document).
With this I believe you should be alright.
 

pdhillon

Hero Member
Oct 29, 2014
412
107
123
Winnipeg
From what I have seen this is what they might ask you since you travel a lot for work:
1. Photocopy of all pages of your passport(s) or travel documents
2. Entry and Exit records ( You can easily ask CBSA to provide one for you as mentioned earlier) I would actually go ahead and request it beforehand and submit it with my application so that it doesnt get returned.
3. Along with that, I would write a letter of explanation to the citizenship officer. This letter is to explain your situation (ie i travel a lot for work and refer him/her to the entry and exit record document).
With this I believe you should be alright.
Thanks, I am considering to apply to CBSA for my travel history & will attach same with my application .
 

dpenabill

VIP Member
Apr 2, 2010
6,304
3,066
This post is largely to emphasize the importance of recognizing key elements in successfully prosecuting a citizenship application and doing so in a manner most likely to avoid non-routine processing as well as, of course, risking a negative outcome.

What can work (including what has worked for some) may fall well short of this. Substantial performance in providing information (rather than providing complete information) may, for example, ultimately support the citizenship application and lead to taking the oath, and probably most often will succeed in doing this so long as IRCC is persuaded the applicant is honest and forthcoming and the information is sufficiently reliable to support a finding that the requirements are met. HOWEVER, substantial performance in providing information, that is providing information that is mostly complete but falls short of being virtually complete, will significantly increase the risk of non-routine processing and delays, and also risks a potentially skeptical assessment which could result in a denied application.

The vast majority of citizenship applicants want to know how to minimize the risk of non-routine processing, and especially how to navigate the process so as to minimize the chance of getting RQ (or PPQ), let alone ending up in a full-blown presence-case. Let alone possibly denied.

No applicant has a guaranteed way to avoid RQ or such. But the risks can be greatly reduced. Many of the factors which are important in this regard are addressed often in this forum, ranging from waiting to apply with a comfortable margin over the minimum to exercising diligence in making sure the application and presence calculation are as complete and accurate as possible (we are all prone to making mistakes, so it is important to make a concerted effort to minimize mistakes).

Thus, and there should be no mistake about this, for those prospective citizenship applicants who want to navigate the process as smoothly as possible, with as few delays as possible, there is NO DOUBT, the applicant should make his or her very best effort to give a complete and accurate account of all dates the applicant exited Canada and all dates the applicant entered Canada.

The applicant is the ONE BEST SOURCE of this information. The PR was there each and every time. No other source, no government source, can for certain have captured a record of each and every entry and exit.

Given how important this information is, there is NO doubt, NONE, about the importance of a PR keeping a complete and accurate record of his or her international travel.

The one most important thing to take away from this discussion is how important this is, for a PR to keep a complete and accurate record of all international travel.


Keeping a record of one's trips is not something people commonly do, especially those who travel regularly and frequently.
A Canadian PR needs to account for all international travel if the PR intends to apply for citizenship. This has been the case for decades. There is NO prospect this will change.

Otherwise, for the Canadian PR who is not preparing to become a Canadian citizen, the PR nonetheless needs to account for all international travel when an application for a new PR card is made, and a PR may be required to substantially provide this information any time the PR arrives at a Port-of-Entry to Canada.

There may be other related record-keeping requirements as well. U.S. citizens, for example, need to file a U.S. tax return even if they owe zero tax to the U.S., and many (most? not sure, at least many) must declare dates present in the U.S.

Thus, it is indeed OBVIOUS that Canadian PRs should keep a record of all international travel. To acknowledge this, to remind PRs in this and similar forums that this is important, is hardly patronizing. The fact that scores of PRs fail to do this amply illustrates just how important it is to make this reminder.

This part of the forum, and the threads addressing PR obligations as well, are rife with the travails of those immigrants who have failed to keep these and other important records.


On a personal note, when I applied for PR it came as a bit of a shock to me that I was required to provide a list of all the international trips taken during the 10 years prior to my application: that involved a few nights ploughing through my emails looking for flight bookings, hotel confirmations and car rental agreements, ending up in a list of a few hundred items that I am sure left out dozens of other trips, since I had lived in a European country very close to two national borders and I was regularly going grocery shopping to a neighbor country.
My effort was considered sufficient by IRCC, the records were provided "to the best of my recollection", so here I am as a PR.
A common problem in this forum is reliance on personal anecdotal experiences erroneously assuming they are relevant let alone indicative of a general rule. (And note: anecdotal reports should NEVER be relied on as an indicator of how it will for sure go for another person, since at the very most how it has gone for one person is only an indicator, an example, of how it might go for another.)

If this anecdotal experience is accurate (the PR visa application processes I am familiar with do NOT require a complete travel history, although they do require work history, address history, and such; see IMM 5669 for example), it is nonetheless a prime example of an anecdotal experience which is NOT relevant to a discussion about reporting travel history in a citizenship or PR card application.

In particular, the precise number of days present in a particular country is not a qualifying element in a PR visa application (time in a country may be a relevant factor for some purposes, such as whether a police certificate from a country is required, but it is NOT a qualifying element). In contrast, the precise number of days absent from Canada (or, conversely, present in Canada) is a qualifying element in the grant citizenship application, as it is in a PR card application as well. (Side-note: Oddly enough, a Federal Court has recently stated that compliance with the PR Residency Obligation is NOT an eligibility requirement for issuance of a PR card, whereas IRCC information explicitly states that compliance with the PR RO is a requirement.)

IRCC will accommodate some estimates and some mistakes, more so perhaps for PR card applicants since falling short of the 730 days present in Canada does NOT mandate a negative outcome, whereas in contrast, if the citizenship applicant's presence in Canada calculation falls short of the presence requirement, even by one day, that does mandate a negative outcome. And on occasion applicants have not encountered serious problems despite being off by several days or even a few weeks, but this is largely dependent on a very substantial margin over the minimum in conjunction with a solid application otherwise, including a solid accounting of most if not all other travel dates. In any event, any significant indication that the applicant's accounting of travel dates is not complete or is not accurate will substantially elevate the risk of non-routine processing, delays, even a problematic assessment.

In other words, there is NO comparison between the importance of travel history in a citizenship application and travel history for a PR visa application (noting again, however, I am not familiar with PR visa applications requiring travel history). But of course the real point, the real import of this, is the reminder that PRs should keep complete and accurate records of their travel and make a diligent effort to declare this information completely and accurately in the presence calculation. And given the extent to which so many PRs fail to do this, this is obviously a reminder worth making and making regularly. Hopefully it saves a few some headaches down the road.
 

uncomfortable

Hero Member
May 11, 2017
234
96
Thank you for your usual overflowing post.

Thus, it is indeed OBVIOUS that Canadian PRs should keep a record of all international travel. To acknowledge this, to remind PRs in this and similar forums that this is important, is hardly patronizing. The fact that scores of PRs fail to do this amply illustrates just how important it is to make this reminder.

This part of the forum, and the threads addressing PR obligations as well, are rife with the travails of those immigrants who have failed to keep these and other important records.
Since so many people fail to keep accurate records, it is safe to assume that it isn't so obvious to do that. Unless you assume that the cohort of PR applicants is filled with idiots who fail to do something that you believe is so blatantly obvious.

I find especially patronizing those who assume that everyone would just keep records of their international travel regardless of their intentions. Travel records are not normally part of regular record-keeping for an average person, and if someone does not know that at some stage in the future they will need to provide a list like the one required for the Physical Presence Calculator they would not keep track of all the info required "just in case".

If this anecdotal experience is accurate (the PR visa application processes I am familiar with do NOT require a complete travel history, although they do require work history, address history, and such; see IMM 5669 for example), it is nonetheless a prime example of an anecdotal experience which is NOT relevant to a discussion about reporting travel history in a citizenship or PR card application.
Not sure why you feel necessary to doubt what I say, nonetheless I presented my personal experience to show that before considering the participation to a process that requires the provision of travel records an average person would never consider this type of record keeping.
The form I had to produce for my PR process is IMM5562, which requires a similar level of details needed to produce the Physical Presence Calculator. It is indeed not relevant to the citizenship process, but it is relevant in trying to explain my point.

But of course the real point, the real import of this, is the reminder that PRs should keep complete and accurate records of their travel and make a diligent effort to declare this information completely and accurately in the presence calculation. And given the extent to which so many PRs fail to do this, this is obviously a reminder worth making and making regularly. Hopefully it saves a few some headaches down the road.
I wholeheartedly agree on that, but for this very reason it is probably better to avoid a language that seems to reproach the candidate for not doing something that is hardly part of everyday life bookkeeping but very important for Canadian immigration purposes. I would find more befitting a language stressing the importance of good travel record-keeping with an explanation of the reasons for its importance. And maybe a more succinct prose, but that's just my preference.

Happy new year.
 

Stef.

Hero Member
Apr 5, 2017
603
164
I am one of those people who immigrated to Canada with my Canadian born husband and my by birth born Canadian Kids. I never thought about becoming a Canadian citizen as I did not want to lose my German citizenship and the process to keep both is rather complicated.
I only changed my mind after having been in Canada for already 9 years and no...I never really kept a record of all my travels. I was not aware of any requirements regarding citizenship. Needless to say, it was a nightmare to get all the dates of my travels together and I missed a whole trip. Nevertheless, because of a huge buffer I ended up sailing through.
So, yes it is vital to keep records, but I agree that if it is not in your mind to become citizen it is likely that you do not keep those records.
 
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aaamr

Star Member
Oct 14, 2017
107
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I am one of those people who immigrated to Canada with my Canadian born husband and my by birth born Canadian Kids. I never thought about becoming a Canadian citizen as I did not want to lose my German citizenship and the process to keep both is rather complicated.
I only changed my mind after having been in Canada for already 9 years and no...I never really kept a record of all my travels. I was not aware of any requirements regarding citizenship. Needless to say, it was a nightmare to get all the dates of my travels together and I missed a whole trip. Nevertheless, because of a huge buffer I ended up sailing through.
So, yes it is vital to keep records, but I agree that if it is not in your mind to become citizen it is likely that you do not keep those records.

I am similar... came to Canada with my Canadian born wife, and citizenship was always in the back of my mind, but never really a priority.

However, my point above is that regardless of whether you apply for citizenship, or even plan to apply, that there are similar absence reporting requirements for the PR card renewal, albeit they are far less stringent in checking. So keeping good records will save you lots of time in the long run.

Of course, not everyone travels as frequently as I do either... I take anywhere from 10-15 international trips a year, many to the US, but also Europe and APAC. So for most, it's probably not as hard to keep track. :)

Wishing everyone speedy processing for the new year!

A.
 

meyakanor

Hero Member
Jul 26, 2013
519
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Visa Office......
CPP-Ottawa
App. Filed.......
16-02-2012
Doc's Request.
26-02-2013
AOR Received.
21-03-2012
Med's Request
21-03-2013
Passport Req..
16-04-2013
VISA ISSUED...
29-04-2013
LANDED..........
16-05-2013
I had perfect travel history for my citizenship application, did not miss a single day outside Canada or a single trip [I included even day trips through land borders].

My application was probably as close as it could possibly be to a role model application when it comes to residency (pretty much only one who has been physically present in Canada for the whole six years could have a more straight forward application). I became a citizen less than 6 months after lodging my citizenship application (processed by the Scarborough office, one of the slowest offices in the whole country).

So my obsessive record keeping habit really paid off, and I was rewarded by ultra fast processing time. I could hardly expect a more expedient processing time (except if I move to a different province or something).

Since Bill C-24, grant of citizenship now requires strict physical presence in Canada.

Before Bill C-24, the requirement was a residence of 3 years out of the last 4 years. This gives flexibility (and judges could exercise discretion when making decision if the physical presence test failed only by a short amount).

A lot of people have been granted citizenship, even when they fell short of the 1,095 days of physical presence threshold, provided they can show significant ties to Canada during the qualifying period (the so-called Koo residency test if I'm not mistaken).

Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on how obsessed you with record keeping), Bill C-6 did not really address this, but I suppose physical presence test is more straight forward to define than residency, except for the fact that Canada does not keep track of people exiting the country.

I wish Canada would be more like Australia or New Zealand in that they also have exit records (if not for everyone, at least for non-citizens) so that tests of physical presence can easily be verified (Australia and New Zealand did NOT even require proof of residency or physical presence to be included in citizenship applications, since they can easily get that directly from the border).

Now if you want to talk about onerous citizenship requirements, there is always the United States.

The US requires you to not only maintain 'continuous' residence (where 'continuity' of residence is ambiguously defined) as LPR for the five years preceding the application, but also physical presence of at least 30 months within the past five years. And the US also does not have exit checks.