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Crossing the border by land

dpenabill

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Apr 2, 2010
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That the most prudent approach is to follow the rules is so obvious, so well-established, so often repeated, it is troublesome that misinformation to the contrary persists in a forum like this.

Much of what follows is common-sense, and consistent with what most participants in the forum post, but misinformation posted above warrants correction. Sorry about the repetition, but the importance of knowing the rules needs to be highlighted.


East said:
Hi there,

I have to cross the US/CA border by land as my residency card has expired but I do qualify all the obligations so it won't be a problem getting in. I'm going to Seattle and then cross the border to Vancouver Island.

My question is.. Am I able to travel by ferry? This is the quickest and easiest way. Or do I have to do it by car, train, bus etc?
I assume that the OP, East, has already made the trip, since the premise underlying the query more than ten days ago was the need to get back to Canada as soon as possible (per posts in other topics) and the OP has not returned to the forum since that day. Another key factor from posts in other topics is that the OP carries a UK passport, visa exempt for both Canada and the U.S.

Thus, this topic is essentially moot relative to the OP's particular query. For anyone else who may be in a similar situation and is reading this topic for information, there has been, however, some seriously misleading observations made here which warrant clarification.



At the Poe:

As others have correctly observed, there is no problem at the PoE itself. Passport plus CoPR or the expired PR card, or even passport alone (potentially subject to some additional delay to verify identity and status), gets a PR entry into Canada.

That said, of course any returning PR might be asked questions related to compliance with the PR Residency Obligation. Returning PRs without a currently valid PR card are at a substantially higher risk for this sort of questioning. This probably was not a problem for the OP here since the OP appears (per the OP's own reporting) to not have any issues in that regard.

For others, even if there are concerns about PR RO compliance, the PR will still be allowed to enter Canada. There are numerous other topics here addressing what happens if the PR is subject to being issued, at a PoE, a 44(1) inadmissibility report for a breach of the PR RO. For purposes of this topic, however, the bottom-line is that even in the worst case scenario, even if reported, the PR still is allowed to enter Canada.



Manner of travel to arrive at a Canadian PoE:

The rule is that a PR needs to present either a valid PR card or a PR Travel Document prior to boarding any commercial means of transportation destined for Canada. There are exceptions, such as for U.S. citizens, among some other narrow exceptions.

The post by thecoolguysam is correct:

thecoolguysam said:
As per the following link, under "Permanent residents of Canada", ferry is considered commercial, they might not let you board the ferry without valid PR card. It's better to drive by land to the border from USA in a private vehicle and then CBSA can check your information and if you meet residency requirements, they will let you in.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/apply-who.asp
The pertinent part of the web page thecoolguysam links states:

"If you are a permanent resident of Canada you must show your permanent resident card when you re-enter Canada on a commercial vehicle, such as an airplane, boat, train or bus. If you return to Canada in a private vehicle, such as your car, there are other documents you can use."

The link in this web page, purportedly to "other documents you can use," does not actually link to the PDI listing what other documents can be used to travel to Canada. That page is here: http://www.cbsa.gc.ca/travel-voyage/td-dv-eng.html

The web page link to "other documents you can use" actually goes to a FAQ PDI, titled "I need to leave Canada and I do not have a permanent resident card. Can I later return to Canada without a PR card?" where it further states:

"Permanent residents (PR) of Canada must carry and present their valid PR card or permanent resident travel document (PRTD) when boarding a flight to Canada, or travelling to Canada on any other commercial carrier. If you do not carry your PR card or PRTD, you may not be able to board your flight, train, bus or boat to Canada.

Returning by commercial vehicle: airplane, bus, train, or boat

You must apply for a permanent resident travel document. Otherwise you may not be able to travel to Canada."




That is the rule. There is NO general exception for a PR carrying a visa-exempt passport. There is NO exception for traveling by bus or ferry rather than by air.

It is NOT "perfectly valid" to evade the rules by engaging in fraud. Assertions to the contrary are inaccurate, potentially reckless.

Nonetheless, keesio makes a practical observation:

keesio said:
Those people who need a PRTD are usually people who are abroad and need to fly back to Canada. The issue is boarding the flight as airlines will check for a valid PR card or PRTD.
Implicit in the observation by keesio is that commercial transporters providing means of transportation to Canada other than by air, such as by bus or ferry, may allow a traveler presenting a visa-exempt passport to board even if the traveler is a PR and is not presenting either a PR card or PR TD.

That is, as a practical matter it may continue to be practical for PRs with a visa-exempt passport to travel to Canada from the U.S. via commercial bus, train, or boat (ferry) without having to show a PR card or PR TD.

The fact that this can be done does not make it valid, let alone "perfectly valid."

It just means that this way of evading the requirement to have a PR card or PR TD will work, in that it will facilitate actually traveling to a Canadian PoE despite not having a valid PR card or PR TD.

Moreover, it is highly unlikely there is any direct or formal repercussions for deceiving the commercial carrier. While it is fraud, there is virtually no prospect of being prosecuted for fraud, no prospect of any civil liability either.


But that does not make engaging in such deception risk-free:

The fact that it is so easily done and, at least more or less gotten-away-with, does not mean it will necessarily be free of any negative effect. CBSA officers are not so blind or stupid as many portray them to be. If interested, they can and will be aware of what is going on in this regard. This is probably a very low priority, and thus probably does not trigger negative consequences, not usually. But of course the appearance of being deceptive, of being a person who deliberately skirts the rules, can easily have a significant impact if there are any other reasons for concern regarding the traveler.

The PR's compliance with the PR RO for example. The PR who arrives at a POE without either a valid PR card or a PR TD is at a higher risk for not just questions related to compliance with the PR RO, but for an elevated level of scrutiny. Add to that the fact the PR obviously evaded the rules about presenting a PR card or PR TD, the appearance of being someone willing to engage in deceit (that is, fraud) to facilitate traveling to Canada, may be a factor which further elevates the risk, the risk of hard questioning and the risk of negative inferences.


Credibility always matters. Always.


Sure, for the majority of travelers who might be in this situation, for whom it is merely a matter of convenience, there being no intent to cheat the system, taking advantage of this practical alternative to applying for and obtaining a PR TD is probably no big deal, probably insignificant. No problem. Thus, whether or not border control officers at the PoE on the Canadian side will pay attention and take note when a PR does not have either a PR card or PR TD, and thus obviously failed to properly present the necessary Travel Documents required for a PR traveling by bus, train, or boat, will most likely depend on the extent to which CBSA is already focused more intently on the particular traveler due to other factors.

But make no mistake, for the PR going through customs upon arriving at the PoE in Canada who does not present a PR card or PR TD, it is rather obvious what they have done. In and of itself, that is not an issue . . . but it could be a credibility factor affecting how a CBSA officer approaches the PR regarding other concerns (in cases where there are potentially other concerns).


Reminder: The vagaries of what happens in practice in real instances are many. What happens for most, and most of the time, largely illuminates what is likely to happen in the routine, typical situation, for those persons without any issues. In contrast, many of those who come to this forum with questions are often those with not-so-routine circumstances, often involving a potential issue or concern (such as a PR short of complying with the PR RO, or even just cutting-it-close).

What usually happens does not illuminate what else can happen.

The vast majority of us rarely encounter a problem. And even when we do, it is often one easily resolved.

For more than a few, however, there are complications and concerns and potential issues. It always warrants knowing what the actual rules are and if possible following the rules, and if circumstances demand skirting a rule (not for the purpose of gaming the system or otherwise abusing the system, but say, for example, to avoid a draconian alternative), to do so knowingly, recognizing the rules, recognizing the risks, making judicious, informed decisions. For example: never a good idea to make any kind of misrepresentation to IRCC or CBSA. But sure, displaying a visa-exempt passport when boarding a ferry between the U.S. and Canada, to avoid the cost and time it would take to obtain a PR TD, for many in that situation that would be worth doing even though it is not, however, perfectly valid.

Again, see the link posted by thecoolguysam to know what the rules are. The most prudent course of action is to follow instructions and go by the rules.
 

Rob_TO

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dpenabill said:
That the most prudent approach is to follow the rules is so obvious, so well-established, so often repeated, it is troublesome that misinformation to the contrary persists in a forum like this.
Sigh.. not this again. The "rules" regarding traveling with a PR card have been on the website for countless years now, this is nothing new. In reality, there is an actual loophole to the rules that allowed visa-exempt travelers to return to Canada using just their passport. This same loophole still exists for non-airplane travel. In all the history this has been done, I've not seen a single case of something negative happening.

Real life examples of how rules and practices are actually enforced in typical situations, are not misinformation, as they are entirely truthful events which have actually happened. Nobody is hiding that this is a loophole or is technically circumventing the rules. So people can read what other travelers have experienced, and decide for themselves if they want to do the same thing.

Especially for people who are unable to get a PR TD due to time constraints, knowing about this is invaluable. In my own case several years ago we were almost going to cancel a vacation after CIC told me twice on the phone a PR TD was mandatory, before someone told me this loophole. So we used it successfully while my wife didn't have a PR card on her.

Let people know the options, and they can judge for themselves what to do.
 

canuck_in_uk

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Rob_TO said:
Sigh.. not this again. The "rules" regarding traveling with a PR card have been on the website for countless years now, this is nothing new. In reality, there is an actual loophole to the rules that allowed visa-exempt travelers to return to Canada using just their passport. This same loophole still exists for non-airplane travel. In all the history this has been done, I've not seen a single case of something negative happening.

Real life examples of how rules and practices are actually enforced in typical situations, are not misinformation, as they are entirely truthful events which have actually happened. Nobody is hiding that this is a loophole or is technically circumventing the rules. So people can read what other travelers have experienced, and decide for themselves if they want to do the same thing.
Agreed. If CBSA was concerned about it, the loophole would have been completely closed years ago. CBSA is not going to take action against people who do it, just like they did NOTHING to the thousands and thousands of people who used this loophole for years to fly to Canada before the eTA was brought in.

When my partner landed, we had a trip planned within a few months. I asked the cBSA officer what to do if the PR card didn't arrive and he told me straight out that my partner could fly on the strength of his British passport and that the CBSA officer would be able to see his PR status in the system with just his passport upon re-entry. CBSA doesn't care.
 

East

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Thank you all for all your help.

I'm going to get the ferry from Seattle to Victoria. If I don't get in i'll get a bus to Vancouver and take it from there.

I'll let you all know how it goes.

Thanks again! x
 

Beltex

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Just wanna throw this curve ball in :)

The PR with an expired card and in breach of his RO want's to return to Canada. What if he happens to have dual nationality and has a passport in the second nationality (which is from a US/Canada visa exempt country) which is not the nationality than he got his PR under. He then fly's to the US and turns up at the border with his 2nd nationality passport - am I right in thinking that when this passport is scanned it will not flag him up as a PR and he'll simply be waved though as a tourist?
 

Rob_TO

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Beltex said:
Just wanna throw this curve ball in :)

The PR with an expired card and in breach of his RO want's to return to Canada. What if he happens to have dual nationality and has a passport in the second nationality (which is from a US/Canada visa exempt country) which is not the nationality than he got his PR under. He then fly's to the US and turns up at the border with his 2nd nationality passport - am I right in thinking that when this passport is scanned it will not flag him up as a PR and he'll simply be waved though as a tourist?
Deceiving a commercial transport carrier that you're a visitor and not a PR is one thing. Deceiving CBSA about your PR status is an entirely different situation and not one I'd recommend to anyone.

In general if you're a PR, you are expected to enter Canada as a PR meaning filling out the declaration for residents and not visitors. There have been many stories about PRs who don't meet RO mistakenly thinking their PR status was revoked automatically. So these travelers have entered Canada as visitors because they honestly thought they weren't PRs anymore. CBSA has in some cases found out the travelers were in fact PRs, and explained to them that PR status does not go away unless it's formally renounced or revoked. From the stories I've heard CBSA is usually pretty nice about this, however it may be a different story if they think you are intentionally trying to deceive them to gain entry to Canada as a visitor.

If at any point CBSA simply asks your status in Canada, you must answer that you're a PR else you would be lying to them. If they never bother to ask, then there's a good chance they would just let you in as a visitor. But CBSA can definitely tell your PR status no matter the passport you hold, it's just a matter of if they send you to secondary inspection to do this or not.
 

Beltex

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My case is hypothetical - I don't have another passport and will shortly be applying for a PRTD - and you may want to wish me luck with that ;)

For me personally the land border "hope I don't get reported route" is a non-starter as I would be with my family and I couldn't lie face to face to save my life so I would end up telling the truth and getting a section 44 report leading to a definite PR revocation - may as well do it from the safety of my own home by requesting a PRTD which may be granted :)
 

thecoolguysam

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Beltex said:
My case is hypothetical - I don't have another passport and will shortly be applying for a PRTD - and you may want to wish me luck with that ;)

For me personally the land border "hope I don't get reported route" is a non-starter as I would be with my family and I couldn't lie face to face to save my life so I would end up telling the truth and getting a section 44 report leading to a definite PR revocation - may as well do it from the safety of my own home by requesting a PRTD which may be granted :)

Have you not met the residency requirement? If not, going by land there are changes you may get reported or may not. However, if you apply PRTD, it may be rejected because of not meeting Residency Obligations.
 

Rob_TO

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Beltex said:
My case is hypothetical - I don't have another passport and will shortly be applying for a PRTD - and you may want to wish me luck with that ;)

For me personally the land border "hope I don't get reported route" is a non-starter as I would be with my family and I couldn't lie face to face to save my life so I would end up telling the truth and getting a section 44 report leading to a definite PR revocation - may as well do it from the safety of my own home by requesting a PRTD which may be granted :)
In many cases where the CBSA officer is well aware of the PR's length of time outside Canada, they still don't bother to file an official report on their residency obligation and instead just give them a warning and let them in. It's truly at the discretion of the individual CBSA officer you talk to. Perhaps some can be swayed by a H&C story, they may just want to give you a break, or might not want to be bothered with the paperwork to report you... who knows.

Though even if getting in without being reported, it can indeed be a huge hassle to commit to staying in Canada 2 straight years without leaving even once, and without a valid PR card. An emergency in home country during the 2 years that demands a trip there, may negate everything if reported upon next re-entry.

So I can understand why some people would just apply for the PR TD from their home country to get a solid answer on if they can keep their PR status or not, before they put all the effort into moving back to Canada without even knowing if it will be successful of not. Just make sure to include as much solid proof of H&C reasons as you can. Better if the proofs are coming from professionals (i.e. doctors notes stating you needed to stay due to someone's medical condition).
 

Beltex

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thecoolguysam said:
Have you not met the residency requirement? If not, going by land there are changes you may get reported or may not. However, if you apply PRTD, it may be rejected because of not meeting Residency Obligations.
No my RO not met so as Rob_TO has said I would be at risk of being reported if the border guys started asking questions. Looking at the posts on here it looks like you have a reasonably good chance of crossing and not getting reported but you are then stuck in Canada for a full two years unless you want to roll the dice again and push your luck.

Whilst it might work for some and I'm thinking a single guy or young couple here, the idea that I would sell up in my own country and head to a land border with the wife,kids and a pile of suitcases in the hope we'll get across unreported isn't one that appeals to be honest, having said that if we don't get our PRTD it will mean starting from scratch and that's not a very appealing thought either :(
 

Escobar Gaviria

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Hey guys,

I have a quick question:

Is it allowed for a US visitor (visit visa holder) with valid Canada PR visa, to make his/her first entry by land border crossing to Canada?

P.S I have B1B2 (visitor visa) of the US, and have valid US driver's license.

TIA.
 

mpsqra

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