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ahmadka

Hero Member
May 31, 2012
330
3
Category........
Visa Office......
Ottawa
NOC Code......
2173
Job Offer........
Pre-Assessed..
App. Filed.......
28-07-2015
Doc's Request.
07-08-2015
AOR Received.
01-10-2015
Passport Req..
05-04-2016
VISA ISSUED...
12-04-2016
Hi guys .. So I wanted to know what documents are normally sent with a PR application (after receiving ITA), for verification of your NON-CANADIAN work experience, which is associated with your chosen profession. I want to get all such documents prepared now because by the time I receive my ITA (hopefully!), I'll be studying abroad (not in Canada), so coming back to get those documents then will be harder.

A small request (please don't mind): Please don't hijack this thread for discussing related issues (which sometimes happens on this forum) .. You're welcome to create your own :)
 
-- Most important thing is your reference letter. If you have that one, you dont need anything else.
-- You can add your pay-stubs, Job offer letter to that.
 
By reference letter, do you mean experience letter ?

Also, the experience letters I have just have 2-3 sentences in them, stating the dates between which I worked at the company and what my designation was. Is that enough ?
 
ahmadka said:
By reference letter, do you mean experience letter ?

Also, the experience letters I have just have 2-3 sentences in them, stating the dates between which I worked at the company and what my designation was. Is that enough ?

No. You will need everything CIC asks for including explicit mention of Roles & responsibilities, supervisor details, salary details, working hours/week, job titles, tenure etc.
 
wow, that's an exhaustive list ! :o

Is there some official CIC webpage which lists the specific things that need to be mentioned on experience letters ?

Also, there are some things I don't understand, like what do you mean by salary 'details' ?! What kind of 'details' are needed for how much you were paid ? Also, how elaborate do you need to be in writing the 'Roles & Responsibilities', 'Supervisor Details', etc ..
 
ahmadka said:
wow, that's an exhaustive list ! :o

Is there some official CIC webpage which lists the specific things that need to be mentioned on experience letters ?

Also, there are some things I don't understand, like what do you mean by salary 'details' ?! What kind of 'details' are needed for how much you were paid ? Also, how elaborate do you need to be in writing the 'Roles & Responsibilities', 'Supervisor Details', etc ..

Salary details would just be the annual salary plus benefits. Others explained below...

The following documents are mandatory for each work experience declared:

a reference or experience letter from the employer

should be an official document printed on company letterhead (must include the applicant’s name, the company’s contact information [address, telephone number and e-mail address], and the name, title and signature of the immediate supervisor or personnel officer at the company);

should indicate all positions held while employed at the company and must include the following details: job title, duties and responsibilities, job status (if current job), dates worked for the company, number of work hours per week and annual salary plus benefits.

Source ---> http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/perm/express/intake-complete.asp
 
What about 'supervisor details' which you mentioned in your previous post ? It doesn't seem to be mentioned in the CIC webpage you posted. I ask because for one of my previous jobs where I had worked for nearly 3 years, my supervisor quit the company just 1-2 weeks before I did by mere coincidence. So in those last days I essentially didn't have a formal supervisor, and I'm wondering if this will be a problem for CIC.
 
ahmadka said:
What about 'supervisor details' which you mentioned in your previous post ? It doesn't seem to be mentioned in the CIC webpage you posted. I ask because for one of my previous jobs where I had worked for nearly 3 years, my supervisor quit the company just 1-2 weeks before I did by mere coincidence. So in those last days I essentially didn't have a formal supervisor, and I'm wondering if this will be a problem for CIC.

the name, title and signature of the immediate supervisor or personnel officer at the company
 
Okay thanks, got it !

A few more questions:

1) Would it be okay to get the experience letter regenerated from the company where I previously worked, in case my previous experience letter doesn't mention all the details ? Like for example, getting a fresh experience letter made with all the details present, for a job which I left about 7 years ago ?

2) In the above case, would I need to provide the ORIGINAL (but inadequate) experience letter as well ?

3) Do I need to provide CIC my job offer letters ?

4) Do I need to provide CIC with any pay slips, etc ? If yes, the pay slips I have are in email format (i.e. an email detailing the breakdown of my pay for that month). Can I send printouts of those emails ?

5) If yes to above, what if I don't have pay slips for a particular job ?

6) Do I need to provide CIC with any bank statement showing the pay deposits ?
 
ahmadka said:
Okay thanks, got it !

A few more questions:

1) Would it be okay to get the experience letter regenerated from the company where I previously worked, in case my previous experience letter doesn't mention all the details ? Like for example, getting a fresh experience letter made with all the details present, for a job which I left about 7 years ago ?

That will be fine.

2) In the above case, would I need to provide the ORIGINAL (but inadequate) experience letter as well ?

Not needed.

3) Do I need to provide CIC my job offer letters ?

If reference letter contains all those details, offer letter need not be uploaded.

4) Do I need to provide CIC with any pay slips, etc ? If yes, the pay slips I have are in email format (i.e. an email detailing the breakdown of my pay for that month). Can I send printouts of those emails ?

You need pay slips only in the absence of salary details in your reference letter. And only to prove that it was paid employment. You can prove that by uploading tax assessment forms too. CIC has no further interest in what you were paid.

5) If yes to above, what if I don't have pay slips for a particular job ?

Get salary mentioned in the reference letter.

6) Do I need to provide CIC with any bank statement showing the pay deposits ?

Overkill if you have the reference letter or pay slips or tax assessment forms. If you have none of those, probably yes.
 
Thanks for your help Asivad.

Several more questions have popped up. About 6-7 years ago I worked for a consultancy company (lets call it Company A), which from day 1 had outsourced me to work with a multinational client of their's, which we'll call Company B. In fact, I never even visited Company A's office ever while working with Company B under this setting - even my salary cheques were given to me through Company B personnel, even though they were coming from Company A. Also, note that my work at Company B was field based, which means that I wasn't working for a set period of hours per day like normal jobs, rather I was some days working for only 4 hours, while on other days I could have been working for 12-13 hours, or even more ! Although on average, you could say I was probably working about 40 hours per week, however this isn't documented anywhere in my job offer letter or existing experience letter, since my job was field based which officially had dynamic hours. Lastly, since leaving both companies (about 6-7 years ago), Company B has virtually left my country entirely, although Company A is still here, which further creates some complications.

I've explained the above because I'm now trying to get a revised Experience letter from Company A which includes things like salary details, duties and responsibilities, etc.

Also note that the NOC I've chosen which best fits this job (according to me) which I did, is NOT the NOC code which I've listed as my current profession in my EE profile. Like I said, I did this work 6-7 years ago, since when I've switched to another field (NOC 2173), which is also my current field.

Questions:

1) Would it be okay to NOT explicitly list down my job duties in my experience letter ? The reason is that Company A is saying that they don't know what work I was doing while working with their client Company B. They say they need to verify that what I'm saying I did at Company B, is in fact correct, since Company A didn't record my day-to-day work activities at Company B. Since Company B is virtually entirely left my country, this makes it difficult for me to get my work verified. I can try contacting some of ex-bosses from Company B who've since left my country, who can send an email to Company A confirming that what I'm saying is correct, but I don't know if I can do this, as it's been 6-7 years since I talked to those people.

2) Like I said above, my work hours at Company B were dynamic because of which Company A might not want to put down 40 hours per week in my experience letter in writing, as they can again say that it's an unverifiable fact. However when I was filling out my EE profile, I mentioned 40 hours/week as how much time I worked there per week on average, as I think it's a good estimate. Will it cause a problem if my experience letter doesn't mention 40 hours/week thing ?

3) My pays were also kind of dynamically calculated. Technically I did have a monthly base pay, but whether or not I was paid for a given month depended on several different factors, such as the amount of work I did in a month, TADAs, etc. If I wasn't paid, the pay got carried over to the next month, or got delayed by a week or two. Eventually I did get paid for all months, however I was paid in 'chunks' which could be combining pays from multiple months or weeks, etc. This again makes it difficult to mention salary details on an experience letter. What should I do regarding this ?

4) My job title at this job was 'Field Engineer', and based on the job description of what I did, I think that best NOC that matches is 2147. However 'Field Engineer' is not listed as one of the sample job titles for NOC 2147. I tried looking through several other NOC's too to find a better fit, but could not. So will this cause problems ?
 
ahmadka said:
Thanks for your help Asivad.

Several more questions have popped up. About 6-7 years ago I worked for a consultancy company (lets call it Company A), which from day 1 had outsourced me to work with a multinational client of their's, which we'll call Company B. In fact, I never even visited Company A ever while working with Company B under this setting - even my cheques were given to me through Company B, even though they were coming from Company A. Also, note that my work at Company B was field based, which means that it I wasn't working for a set period of hours per day, rather I was some days working for only 4 hours, while on other days I could have been working for 12-13 hours. Although on average, you could say I was probably working about 40 hours per week, however this isn't documented anywhere in my Job offer or existing experience letter, since my job was field based which had dynamic hours. Lastly, since leaving both companies (about 6-7 years ago), Company B hs virtually left my country entirely, although Company A is still here, which further creates some complications.

I've explained the above because I'm now trying to get a revised Experience letter from Company A which includes things like salary details, duties and responsibilities, etc.

Also note that the NOC I've chosen which fits this job which I did, is NOT the NOC code which I've listed as my current profession in my EE profile. Like I said, I did this work 6-7 years ago, since when I've switched to another field, which is also my current field.

Questions:

1) Would it be okay to NOT explicitly list down my job duties in my experience letter ? The reason is that Company A is saying that they don't know what work I was doing while working with their client Company B. They say they need to verify that what I'm saying I did at Company B, is in fact correct. Since Company B is virtually entirely left my country, this makes it difficult for me to get my work verified. I can try contacting some of ex-bosses from Company B who've since left Pakistan, who can send an email to Company A confirming that what I'm saying is correct, but I don't know if I can do this, as it's been 6-7 years since I talked to those people.

2) Like I said above, my work hours at Company B were dynamic because of which Company A might not want to put down 40 hours per week in my experience letter in writing, as they can again say that it's an unverifiable fact. However when I was filling out my EE profile, I mentioned 40 hours/week as how much time I worked there per week on average, and I think its a very good estimate. Will it cause a problem if my experience letter doesn't mention 40 hours/week thing ?

3) My pays were also kind of dynamically calculated. Technically I had a base pay on a monthly basis, but whether or not I'm paid or the pay is carried over to the next month depended on several different factors, such as the amount of work I did in a month, etc. Eventually I did get paid for all months, however I was paid in 'chunks' which could be combining pays from multiple months, etc. This again makes it difficult to mention salary details on an experience letter. What should I do regarding this ?

4) My job title at this job was 'Field Engineer', and based on the job description of what I did, I think that best NOC that matches is 2147. However 'Field Engineer' is not listed as one of the sample job titles for NOC 2147. I tried looking through several other NOC's too to find a better fit, but could not. So will this cause problems ?

The one good thing though, is that the

First things first. Do you even NEED this experience? For CRS purposes, you need only 3 years of work experience to have a chance at scoring the highest points. And for scoring highest points for experience under FSWP eligibility, you need 6+ years within the same NOC. Given that this experience isn't even the same as your Primary NOC, why do you even want this to show up in your application? And all the associated complications therein.

If you're not using this NOC as your primary NOC, recommend that you keep this job out of your PR application. CIC doesn't ask for full disclosure in work history - you're just adding unnecessary work and complication to your application which isn't fetching you any benefits.

Hope that clarifies. All the best!
 
So you're suggesting that I remove this work history from my profile altogether ? Won't CIC be then suspicious as to why there's a gap in my work history ?
 
ahmadka said:
So you're suggesting that I remove this work history from my profile altogether ? Won't CIC be then suspicious as to why there's a gap in my work history ?

Not at all. It will still show up in your Personal history which is expected to be comprehensive. Your work history needs to have just the relevant experience that gave you CRS points and contributed towards program eligibility.
 
I don't mean to question your knowledge and expertise, but just to be safe, is there any proof (e.g. CIC website source) to support that its okay to not mention your full work history ? Last thing I want is a legal issue with CIC because of not disclosing my full work history ..

Also, where is this Personal History section ? I don't see it on my EE profile anywhere.

Lastly, today is a Friday and draws are normally done on Fridays. In light of this, is it 'safe' to update my EE profile now and remove this work history ? I mean, CIC might be conducting a draw right now as I do the change, which might cause some technical glitch or something :/