What came first, the chicken or the egg? (ie the job offer or the work permit?)

[Brown eyed girl]

Hi guys,

Hello from rainy old England. I am new to this site, so please bear with me if my questions have been answered before.

Hubby and I applied for PR last April 08 (not fully realizing rules had changed) as we scored about 72 in the initial assessment under the skilled worker catagory. Although nobody knows what the list of 38 occupations is going to contain, I am not holding much hope that my job would come remotely close to any of the 38 Most Wanted I work as a Welfare and Benefits Officer for a local Government agency, whilst my husband works as multi-drop driver/courier. I speak 4 languages (including English and French) and have sufficient funds to settle straight away.

I have read loads of blogs/forums etc and I haven't quite found an answer to my question: how does one apply for a job without having a work permit or PR? We have trawled various job sites and the majority of employers advertising there state that you need to have permission to work in Canada before applying. But how can you get a job offer to boost your application for PR, when you have to have PR or a work-permit to apply for work? Arrggghh. I am so frustrated, please help!

Also, did I read correctly that an employer would not need to apply for a LMO if this is just an interim offer based on the condition that the prospective employee obtains PR first? If so we have a Canadian citizen friend who is in the process of starting his own business who would like my husband to work with him - however he's not quite ready to be applying for LMO's yet.....

Many thanks to whomever replies, and may I say this site is GREAT. So much information, so many people in the same boat! Let's all help each other and maybe one day we can organize a reunion in Canada!!

 

[eduardoF]

I have read loads of blogs/forums etc and I haven't quite found an answer to my question: how does one apply for a job without having a work permit or PR? We have trawled various job sites and the majority of employers advertising there state that you need to have permission to work in Canada before applying. But how can you get a job offer to boost your application for PR, when you have to have PR or a work-permit to apply for work? Arrggghh. I am so frustrated, please help!

Apparently, in some occupations there's such a shortage of workers that employers are actually offering jobs to foreigners who do not have permission to work in Canada. I hear that's the case for carpenters and other trades. But I'm not sure that's PR or temporary work permits.

 

[NewYorker]

Not true in all categories of work. I am looking for a job from 6 months. No offer of any work because I do not have work authorization in Canada.

I tried everything I could, I am a IT professional, I thought it was much needed in Canada. but all job offers need work permit.. If I would have a work permit, why would I need a job offer?

This really make me think of Chicken or an Egg theory.

 

[cchabert]

The offers that need work permit is because those employers doesn't want to tackle all the forms to fill, it is easy just to hire someone already there, keep looking is my best suggestion.

 

[aghijan]

Hi guys,

Hello from rainy old England. I am new to this site, so please bear with me if my questions have been answered before.

Hubby and I applied for PR last April 08 (not fully realizing rules had changed) as we scored about 72 in the initial assessment under the skilled worker catagory. Although nobody knows what the list of 38 occupations is going to contain, I am not holding much hope that my job would come remotely close to any of the 38 Most Wanted I work as a Welfare and Benefits Officer for a local Government agency, whilst my husband works as multi-drop driver/courier. I speak 4 languages (including English and French) and have sufficient funds to settle straight away.

I have read loads of blogs/forums etc and I haven't quite found an answer to my question: how does one apply for a job without having a work permit or PR? We have trawled various job sites and the majority of employers advertising there state that you need to have permission to work in Canada before applying. But how can you get a job offer to boost your application for PR, when you have to have PR or a work-permit to apply for work? Arrggghh. I am so frustrated, please help!

Also, did I read correctly that an employer would not need to apply for a LMO if this is just an interim offer based on the condition that the prospective employee obtains PR first? If so we have a Canadian citizen friend who is in the process of starting his own business who would like my husband to work with him - however he's not quite ready to be applying for LMO's yet.....

Many thanks to whomever replies, and may I say this site is GREAT. So much information, so many people in the same boat! Let's all help each other and maybe one day we can organize a reunion in Canada!!

What your friend in Canada should do is to apply for AEO, which is easier to get and not binding for the employer. That helps your application speed up and land in Canada in a shorter time. To get the AEO (arranged employment opinion) all your friend needs to do is to prepare these documents and send them to HRSDC:

1. Business license,
2. CRA T4 Summary of Remuneration Paid for the last year
3. Form PD7A, Statement of Account for Current Source Deductions for the last year

To do so you can hire a reliable, hard working Immigration Consultant for around 1000 CD to take care of the process.

Once you get your AEO, send it to CIC London.

 

[juergens]

I am in the same boat. I work in distance education in the US and have some IT background (videoconferencing), but I'm not so sure that kind of work is in high demand. Even if it was, I doubt any employer would be willing to wait 18 months or more for the paperwork to process. Therefore I contemplate filing for the PR without a job offer first. I clearly meet the criteria as far as points, I'm in good health, have no criminal background, am educated (Bachelor's degree in Finance and a Master's in Telecommunications) and have more than enough funds to last me several years. I don't think I'd be considered undesirable. But I think that because I'm not in a high demand field I feel like I'm denied before even getting a start. I think this web site is great but would really like to get in contact with people in Canada who may be in position to hire some of us. They say that networking is key in career advancement, but networking is a bit difficult if you really don't have a place to start.

Anyway, am I wasting my time and money applying without a job lined up? Would I be considered based on all the other criteria? I know they are screening those who may not be able to adapt, but I'm not moving from the other side of the world with no language skills or work history. How does a decent person go about this? Any contacts out there in education?

 

[aghijan]

Not true in all categories of work. I am looking for a job from 6 months. No offer of any work because I do not have work authorization in Canada.

I tried everything I could, I am a IT professional, I thought it was much needed in Canada. but all job offers need work permit.. If I would have a work permit, why would I need a job offer?

This really make me think of Chicken or an Egg theory.

Is your job a regular one?

If so you need to have your credentials evaluated first. Then prepare a couple resumes and send to the potential employers. Making calls is a better strategy, as I did so and it paid off.

The problem is that most of the employers think giving a job offer brings about obligations. When you call reassure them that giving a job offer to some body is not binding. It's just to help someone come to Canada in shorter time.
So when you call say all I need is an AEO not LMO. Then once in Canada try to get a job.

 

[BCguy]

I am in the same boat. I work in distance education in the US and have some IT background (videoconferencing), but I'm not so sure that kind of work is in high demand. Even if it was, I doubt any employer would be willing to wait 18 months or more for the paperwork to process. Therefore I contemplate filing for the PR without a job offer first. I clearly meet the criteria as far as points, I'm in good health, have no criminal background, am educated (Bachelor's degree in Finance and a Master's in Telecommunications) and have more than enough funds to last me several years. I don't think I'd be considered undesirable. But I think that because I'm not in a high demand field I feel like I'm denied before even getting a start. I think this web site is great but would really like to get in contact with people in Canada who may be in position to hire some of us. They say that networking is key in career advancement, but networking is a bit difficult if you really don't have a place to start.

Anyway, am I wasting my time and money applying without a job lined up? Would I be considered based on all the other criteria? I know they are screening those who may not be able to adapt, but I'm not moving from the other side of the world with no language skills or work history. How does a decent person go about this? Any contacts out there in education?

Hi If you have a H-1 or H-3 visa in the US,You dont need a job offer to come to Canada If your occupation is under demand in Alberta under their Strategic stream,Go straight in

 

[NewYorker]

If so you need to have your credentials evaluated first. Then prepare a couple resumes and send to the potential employers. Making calls is a better strategy, as I did so and it paid off.

The problem is that most of the employers think giving a job offer brings about obligations. When you call reassure them that giving a job offer to some body is not binding. It's just to help someone come to Canada in shorter time.
So when you call say all I need is an AEO not LMO. Then once in Canada try to get a job.

Well, that may work in most cases, I am not saying that I didn't tried actually I am keep on trying, however I believe if you do not have some connections or know someone, its not likely that a employer will give you a job offer. No one will help you to get a visa and give you a job offer letter so you just establish yourself in Canada, looks like a fairy tale to me.

I applied for the FSW visa with qualifying points and lets see what will happen, job offer would have given me extra 10. I am still trying and as I said in my earlier post, all offers are I get are from USA not from Canada.

I will see what will happen...

 

[eduardoF]

Re: What came first, the chicken or the egg? (ie the job offer or the work permi

Anyway, am I wasting my time and money applying without a job lined up? Would I be considered based on all the other criteria? I know they are screening those who may not be able to adapt, but I'm not moving from the other side of the world with no language skills or work history. How does a decent person go about this? Any contacts out there in education?

You're not really wasting time, since basically all you have to do is send an application form and make a few phone calls

As for finding a job in your field, there are a few ways to go about it. Universities are a good place to begin. Here are some ideas to get you started:

http://www1.athabascau.ca/hr/careers/supp/s00414
http://www1.athabascau.ca/hr/careers/supp/S00212
http://www1.athabascau.ca/hr/careers/prof/P00475

Another idea: contact your suppliers and ask if they have any business in Canada...

The thing is you have what they call a "non conventional" education history. How do you go from a degree in finance to working in IT-Teleconferencing? I'm more or less in the same boat, my first degree was in sociology, but my phd is in risk and safety - and even though it's a phd, I can not get any jobs safety-related... :-/

But then again, you have work experince, that counts a lot!

 

[NewYorker]

Its all fishing, there is no procedure to follow - e.g do this and this and you will get an opportunity with the employer to get your resume reviewed.

Demand is there, but most not all jobs are given to the Work Permit holders, and to get a work permit you need a job offer. Thanks for sharing, you found the job this way and you were lucky, I will try this also but I have no hopes.

 

[Brown eyed girl]

Thanks guys for the info and suggestions. My Canadian friend is only just starting up his business so I don't think he would be able to file the paperwork suggested for the AEO as he hasn't paid any remuneration to anyone last year. He's still working for an employer himself but doing more private jobs and building contacts etc. I guess he would only be able to help us once he's operating his own business for a couple of years.

"What your friend in Canada should do is to apply for AEO, which is easier to get and not binding for the employer. That helps your application speed up and land in Canada in a shorter time. To get the AEO (arranged employment opinion) all your friend needs to do is to prepare these documents and send them to HRSDC:

1. Business license,
2. CRA T4 Summary of Remuneration Paid for the last year
3. Form PD7A, Statement of Account for Current Source Deductions for the last year "

Out of curiousity, and this is meant in the nicest possible way, what is driving people working/living in the U.S. to move to Canada? I mean I know Canada is beautiful and we're all trying to move there after all...just curious as loads of people are trying to get into the U.S. too by applying for DV lottery or sponsorship. I guess people might wonder why we want to move from UK? Guess we're tired of the rat-race, the soaring crime, the stress, the extortionate cost of living etc.

Good luck guys, if I find out about any employers or agencies that will help I'll post the info.

 

[juergens]

Thank you eduardoF and BCguy for the information. I will definitely look up some of the prospects you both mentioned.

As for why so many Americans choose to immigrate to Canada.... well, for me, it's just a love of the country. It's not political. I am not trying to flee the United States as much as I just love Canada and enjoy the culture and it's openness. It is a peaceful country and I believe Canada takes issues like health, education, and crime, much more seriously. As a kid, we used to travel to NW Ontario to visit relatives (my US uncle married a Canadian). They passed away when I was a late teen, but soon after that I took a job in Northern Montana and then discovered Alberta and BC. We also had other relatives in Saskatchewan that we visited once and even that seemed alright. I made frequent visits to Calgary, and eventually to other parts of Western Canada. I made a few friends in Calgary (who even put us up for a few days while we enjoyed the Olympics). Let's just say I became accustomed to the culture. I decided I wanted a job there but had no idea it was quite the process. At the time I was still fairly young and had limited skills. But I never lost the desire to live in Canada. Eventually I ended up in Tulsa, but then I got a Master's degree in Telecommunications and currently work at a university as a Media Technologist in the Distance Ed Department (they call it Learning Technology Services). We do live video conferencing, encoding, and support the overall on-line platforms. I also teach at the community college. So, I finally have the education and work experience I lacked before and really want to give this one more try before I age out. But I've lost all my Canadian contacts and living in Oklahoma doesn't make it practical to make too many trips up there.

I realize the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence (or in this case, the snow is always whiter, LOL). I realize there would be adjustments, but I'm willing to adapt. I really don't care for Oklahoma (talk about a culture shock). I've been here thirteen years and still don't feel at home. My wife and I have decided to start looking for work elsewhere, but also decided that if we are going to leave our current jobs and up and sell the house and make a move, let's make a move someplace we intend to stay the rest of our lives. For us, it's clearly Canada.

 

[juergens]

I have been looking up info on Alberta's AINP strategic recruitment stream and think I may have given the wrong impression that I am in the US on a H-1B visa. I should clear by saying that I am a US citizen (born and raised) seeking a move to Canada. What I meant by being in the same boat is that it would appear one needs the job offer before being able to apply for PR. Yet the jobs require you to already have a work permit or PR before applying. My job is somewhat IT related, but is not in such a huge demand that an employer would be willing to wait a year or more before I could start. I checked into Athabasca University (thanks for the suggestion Eduardo). They seem to specialize in Distance Education, which is the area I work in. I applied for a position but it would appear they will only consider me for a job if I am a Canadian citizen or a Permanent resident/Landed immigrant. So, I'm back to the same position as Brown Eyed Girl. I suppose I should just go ahead and send my application to CIC without a job offer. I'm assuming I cannot just drive up to the Alberta (or any other) border and ask for a work visa because I'm in a skilled worker class? Yeah, that would give you the stern look alright (LOL).

Anyway, I do appreciate the advice and hope everyone has a really great weekend

And GO Stampeders!

 

[BCguy]

You come in under Special rules because of NAFTA labour Mobility agreements,Come on up directly to the Head of the Line