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Was PR long time ago, applied again, strange request? - LEON & Experts!

walterg74

Star Member
Jul 21, 2009
121
10
Hi, I'll try to explain my status briefly to see if any of you good folks can advise/help:

I went to Canada with my Family a long time ago, in 1982. I was 8. We went as permanent residents, sponsored by my dad's brother and stayed for 4 years (leaving in 1986, approx. exactly 4 years after entering), as we returned to our home country for personal reasons of my parents. I was 12 on return.

After becoming an adult, I later on wanted to return, but I was told that too much time had passed, and if I wanted to go I would need to start from scratch with a new immigration process.

I started doing this a couple of years ago, applied through Quebec, we got selected, started the federal process and recently went through the phase where they requested our police certs, medical exams, and photos.

Thought that was it and was waiting for the final phase, but last week I receved one more e-mail requesting I submit "all my passports" and also fill out form IMM5524 "Application for a travel document - Permanent Resident abroad"

First I though it was the final phase where they would place the visa on my passport, but reading the form, it seemed to be for someone who is neededing a document after being absent and wanting to return to Canada. Also I asked about the passports how long they would keep them, since I occasionally travel for work.

They answered that they actually wanted copies of the passports, not the originals, and the reason for filling all this stuff is because they see in the system I was given PR when I was 9... ?!

I told them almost nothing in the form applies, since it asks for information of the last 5 years specifically, and my status was over 30 years ago! but in todays e-mail they told me to fill out whatever is appropriate, put "N/A" in the rest, and also to fill in yet another form, 5538b which is "Voluntary Relinquishment of Permanent Resident Status"! so wth?

First, I'm afraid to fill and submit that because in a guide I found it says you should only do that not only if you're sure but also if you have no intent of returning as a PR, an second because if I was told my PR expired many, many years ago, what exactly am I relinquishing? And if I do have something left, should I be doing something else?? Not sure what to do with all this, the embassy folks reply but communication Is via e-mail only, and not really sure what to do/ask.

Any help would be much appreciated from anybody knowing what this could be/mean.

Thanks.
 

Leon

VIP Member
Jun 13, 2008
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Because your PR from 30 years ago was never actually revoked, you are technically still a PR. Now that you are applying again, your old PR will stop you from being granted a new one. The travel document is a formality in order for you to lose the old PR so your current application can get processed.
 

walterg74

Star Member
Jul 21, 2009
121
10
Leon said:
Because your PR from 30 years ago was never actually revoked, you are technically still a PR. Now that you are applying again, your old PR will stop you from being granted a new one. The travel document is a formality in order for you to lose the old PR so your current application can get processed.
Thank you Leon!

About the same time I saw the notification of your reply the visa office also replied. They seem to say the same thing, this was their reply:

"Dear Sir,

The completion of the attached form is a requirement and a formality of the Canadian Immigration Law which complements the information provided on the PRTD form. If an applicant does not meet the requirements , then there are no grounds for the applicant to retain his status.

Sincerely,
Visa and Immigration Section | Visas et Immigration"

So then if I understand correctly:

- After having been gone for so long, even though technically the PR is still "in place", of course it will not be possible to recover it
- A formal relinquishment of *that* PR status is required
- This will formally close that "chapter" and will allow the further processing of my brand new application
- This should in no way hinder/harm my current and well advanced application, and unless anything unexepected happens (which I don't expect) my current application should soon be completed and I would be granted the OK to go, do the landing, get a new PR status etc.

Does that sound about right?

Also, in the form I have two questions/check boxes to fill:

one of the questions is if I ever lost PR status. Based on all the above, should I actually put "no" as it would seem I have not formally lost it until I submit this other form they ask for, or should I put yes and explain everything? :S

the other is if there were any conditions imposed to me at the time of obtaining PR status. Given that I was accompanying my father and he was sponsored by his brother, should I put any of that as yes there was a condition, or not?

Thanks so much!
 

Leon

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Jun 13, 2008
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Your understanding of the situation is correct. This will not harm your current application but actually allow it to go forward. There might have been a tiny chance to recover your old PR but it would have been difficult and would have required some other sacrifices. Definitely not worth it if you qualify to apply for a new one.

You have never lost your PR status (that is why they are asking you to fill out the TD so they can officially revoke it).

There were no conditions imposed upon your PR at the time of landing. That would apply if you had been an entrepreneur for example and your PR be tied to successfully running a business or what they currently have for sponsored spouses.
 

walterg74

Star Member
Jul 21, 2009
121
10
Leon said:
Your understanding of the situation is correct. This will not harm your current application but actually allow it to go forward. There might have been a tiny chance to recover your old PR but it would have been difficult and would have required some other sacrifices. Definitely not worth it if you qualify to apply for a new one.

You have never lost your PR status (that is why they are asking you to fill out the TD so they can officially revoke it).

There were no conditions imposed upon your PR at the time of landing. That would apply if you had been an entrepreneur for example and your PR be tied to successfully running a business or what they currently have for sponsored spouses.
Got it, thanks for the explanation. I guess i will fill the 5524 and 5538b they asked me for then and bring it to them tomorrow.

One other doubt is The 5524 asks me for when i became PR and I don't have the date, as it was that long ago... I do have in my power my original Landing Record, so maybe I can put that date? Also asks me for a file number in the 5538b, which again, I have no clue and I guess it's the old/original one, notm y current one, since that's what I'm relinquishing right?
 

Leon

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Jun 13, 2008
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Write the date of the original record of landing. As for the file number, I think it would be best to leave it blank if you don't know it.
 

walterg74

Star Member
Jul 21, 2009
121
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Leon said:
Write the date of the original record of landing. As for the file number, I think it would be best to leave it blank if you don't know it.
Ok, so filled out the 5524, did as they told me to put "N/A" on the non-applicable fields (almost everything since the requested info is only going back 5 years) and I placed on the "date you became pr" the landing date on my record of landing, also Toronto, Ontario which is where we landed. LAs date in Canada, place June-30-1986, since I vaguely remember we left after the World Cup finals which was on June 29th :p

For the 5538, I actually left the whole first part blank to ask them directly, and signed and completed part 2 and 3, leaving part 4 for them to sign, since as I understood that 4th part was for the visa officer to complete/sign.

I took everything personally today, as the embassy is pretty close from here (10-15 min cab ride), handed in the copy of all pages of my passports (all four of them...) and these forms. Asked about it to see if it was ok, or needed to fill/correct anything, but they said it's fine, so I hope they don't come back later and say something actually wasn't... :mad:

Here's hoping with the 2 signatures for relinquishment and appeal waiver, they can quickly resume processing my application...

In your experience, since we have been already accepted by Quebec, unless anything weird pops up in the meds, we should soon get the final steps and visa/ok to travel right? Or could anything else still delay this?

Thanks!!
 

walterg74

Star Member
Jul 21, 2009
121
10
Hey Leon!

Came back after all this above FINALLY went through!! Finally got my visa but now something else came up! :D

If you can I'd appreciate if you can take a looksy here:

http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-immigration-discussion-board/finally-got-the-green-light-going-but-not-quite-help-from-the-pros-leon-t230892.0.html

Thanks!!!