Visitor visa refused GCMS notes translate

[nadeem55]

Hi,

My brother’s visitor visa application has refused, I’ve invited him with 2 elder kids (11, 7 years old schooling going kids) out of 4 of his kids (2 minors), they never travelled anywhere out of their home country (Pakistan)
Ordered GCMS notes and that’s what I got which is unreasonable according to me, should I ask for reconsideration? If they required these documents they should ask instead of simply refusing their visitor visa application?


Label: General
Ofice: Abu Dhabi
Text: I have reviewed the application.
Ihave considered the following factors ni my decision.
- MP letter reviewed and noted.
- Limited and or insufficient evidence of prior travel history provided.
- Consent for minors to travel not provided.

The purpose of the applicant's visit to Canada is not consistent with a temporary stay given the details provided in the application.

Weighing the factors in this application, I am not satisfied that the applicant will depart Canada at the end of period authorized for their stay.

For the reasons above, Ihave refused this application.

 

[canuck78]

Hi,

My brother’s visitor visa application has refused, I’ve invited him with 2 elder kids (11, 7 years old schooling going kids) out of 4 of his kids (2 minors), they never travelled anywhere out of their home country (Pakistan)
Ordered GCMS notes and that’s what I got which is unreasonable according to me, should I ask for reconsideration? If they required these documents they should ask instead of simply refusing their visitor visa application?


Label: General
Ofice: Abu Dhabi
Text: I have reviewed the application.
Ihave considered the following factors ni my decision.
- MP letter reviewed and noted.
- Limited and or insufficient evidence of prior travel history provided.
- Consent for minors to travel not provided.

The purpose of the applicant's visit to Canada is not consistent with a temporary stay given the details provided in the application.

Weighing the factors in this application, I am not satisfied that the applicant will depart Canada at the end of period authorized for their stay.

For the reasons above, Ihave refused this application.

The letter giving the children permission to travel was not the reason for refusal. The letter from your MP does not add anything to the file. Unless you personally know the MP and have worked with them an MP letter does not help at all. I see no grounds for reconsideration. How much personal savings did your brother show? They have no proof of travel because the haven’t traveled. How long were they requesting stay? What was the reason for travel? Why did he want the 2 children to join him versus going alone, going with his spouse or the whole family travelling? How did you get status in Canada and how long have you been living in Canada? Do you have other family members who have status in Canada? Do your parents have a TRV or PR and are they in Canada at the moment? Do you have any other siblings and if so where do they live? Is your brother employed? Does he own a home or property?

Looking back on your posts the fact that you mother got PR last year and that he is your only sibling leads to concerns that he will try to remain in Canada. You have been in Canada for 15 years so why does he wan to visit now? The other big issue is that they wanted to travel this summer for your birthday and the travel date has already passed. Are the other 2 children under 5? There could also be concern that your brother had planned on trying to remain in Canada to try and get a WP and would try and register the 2 eldest children for school in the Fall. Given that your brother had never travelled before traveling with 2 children is an unusual choice.

 

[Naturgrl]

Hi,

My brother’s visitor visa application has refused, I’ve invited him with 2 elder kids (11, 7 years old schooling going kids) out of 4 of his kids (2 minors), they never travelled anywhere out of their home country (Pakistan)
Ordered GCMS notes and that’s what I got which is unreasonable according to me, should I ask for reconsideration? If they required these documents they should ask instead of simply refusing their visitor visa application?


Label: General
Ofice: Abu Dhabi
Text: I have reviewed the application.
Ihave considered the following factors ni my decision.
- MP letter reviewed and noted.
- Limited and or insufficient evidence of prior travel history provided.
- Consent for minors to travel not provided.

The purpose of the applicant's visit to Canada is not consistent with a temporary stay given the details provided in the application.

Weighing the factors in this application, I am not satisfied that the applicant will depart Canada at the end of period authorized for their stay.

For the reasons above, Ihave refused this application.

I see no reasons for reconsideration. @canuck78 summed up everything. MP letter gives no weight or purpose. You have no travel history and didn’t get consent to take children. Consider applying alone without children.

 

[nadeem55]

I see no reasons for reconsideration. @canuck78 summed up everything. MP letter gives no weight or purpose. You have no travel history and didn’t get consent to take children. Consider applying alone without children.

Wrong analysis, I’ve asked for reconsideration ground, not to ask if MP letter worth it or not, I know he don’t have travel history but that’s not the main reason of rejection, the only thing is children consent which was never asked to other applicants, the refusal base IMO is not usual so asking if that’s the normal refusal reason? Should I ask for reconsideration because of these reasons?

 

[nadeem55]

The letter giving the children permission to travel was not the reason for refusal. The letter from your MP does not add anything to the file. Unless you personally know the MP and have worked with them an MP letter does not help at all. I see no grounds for reconsideration. How much personal savings did your brother show? They have no proof of travel because the haven’t traveled. How long were they requesting stay? What was the reason for travel? Why did he want the 2 children to join him versus going alone, going with his spouse or the whole family travelling? How did you get status in Canada and how long have you been living in Canada? Do you have other family members who have status in Canada? Do your parents have a TRV or PR and are they in Canada at the moment? Do you have any other siblings and if so where do they live? Is your brother employed? Does he own a home or property?

Looking back on your posts the fact that you mother got PR last year and that he is your only sibling leads to concerns that he will try to remain in Canada. You have been in Canada for 15 years so why does he wan to visit now? The other big issue is that they wanted to travel this summer for your birthday and the travel date has already passed. Are the other 2 children under 5? There could also be concern that your brother had planned on trying to remain in Canada to try and get a WP and would try and register the 2 eldest children for school in the Fall. Given that your brother had never travelled before traveling with 2 children is an unusual choice.

Thanks for your response, you’re a senior member and not expecting this judging response which is unrelated to my question,
When you say he’s the only siblings is naive judgement, also so many irrelevant questions ask which has nothing to do with my question.

please try to help the community which is why this forum for, I thought you guys are seniors, more active and might seen these cases to reply accordingly but anyway thanks.

 

[Naturgrl]

Wrong analysis, I’ve asked for reconsideration ground, not to ask if MP letter worth it or not, I know he don’t have travel history but that’s not the main reason of rejection, the only thing is children consent which was never asked to other applicants, the refusal base IMO is not usual so asking if that’s the normal refusal reason? Should I ask for reconsideration because of these reasons?

But what is the error in law for reconsideration? I don’t see an error in law. Travel history is a main factor in approving TRVs and that is one of the 3 reasons for refusal in GCMS notes. IRCC wants to see travel and abiding by immigration laws to other countries which are US, UK, NZ and AUS. Didn’t receive approval to take children out of country so get letters from wife to allow children to leave. That again, is a new application not reconsideration because you would be adding new documents.

 

[scylla]

Hi,

My brother’s visitor visa application has refused, I’ve invited him with 2 elder kids (11, 7 years old schooling going kids) out of 4 of his kids (2 minors), they never travelled anywhere out of their home country (Pakistan)
Ordered GCMS notes and that’s what I got which is unreasonable according to me, should I ask for reconsideration? If they required these documents they should ask instead of simply refusing their visitor visa application?


Label: General
Ofice: Abu Dhabi
Text: I have reviewed the application.
Ihave considered the following factors ni my decision.
- MP letter reviewed and noted.
- Limited and or insufficient evidence of prior travel history provided.
- Consent for minors to travel not provided.

The purpose of the applicant's visit to Canada is not consistent with a temporary stay given the details provided in the application.

Weighing the factors in this application, I am not satisfied that the applicant will depart Canada at the end of period authorized for their stay.

For the reasons above, Ihave refused this application.

Unfortunately it is entirely up to the applicant to provide sufficient documentation / evidence with the initial application. IRCC does not request further information or documents if they have concerns. They make the decision based on what the appplicant has provided. The application was correctly refused without IRCC requesting further information / documentation. There is no grounds for reconsideration based on this.

IMO reconsideration makes the most sense when you feel the application was in fact complete. You can certainly try asking for reconsideration. However based on the above, the application was incomplete so applying again is likely the best path (you can still request reconsideration as well). You will need to obtain and include the consent for minors. Additionally, since one of the refusal reasons relates to their limited prior travel history, I would recommend including stronger evidence of ties to the home country such as property ownership, evidence of employment (including a leave letter from the employer), savings, etc.

Good luck.

 

[nadeem55]

Unfortunately it is entirely up to the applicant to provide sufficient documentation / evidence with the initial application. IRCC does not request further information or documents if they have concerns. They make the decision based on what the appplicant has provided. The application was correctly refused without IRCC requesting further information / documentation. There is no grounds for reconsideration based on this.

IMO reconsideration makes the most sense when you feel the application was in fact complete. You can certainly try asking for reconsideration. However based on the above, the application was incomplete so applying again is likely the best path (you can still request reconsideration as well). You will need to obtain and include the consent for minors. Additionally, since one of the refusal reasons relates to their limited prior travel history, I would recommend including stronger evidence of ties to the home country such as property ownership, evidence of employment (including a leave letter from the employer), savings, etc.

Good luck.

Thanks for the reasonable response, we have included his active business, family, assets and siblings living there which shows stronger ties, also when you say incomplete application, which I checked his GCMS notes it says application is complete, if the required document is missing or incomplete application they might not even consider processing further but in this case they did, I’ll ask any immigration lawyer and check if these are sufficient grounds for reconsideration?

 

[scylla]

Thanks for the reasonable response, we have included his active business, family, assets and siblings living there which shows stronger ties, also when you say incomplete application, which I checked his GCMS notes it says application is complete, if the required document is missing or incomplete application they might not even consider processing further but in this case they did, I’ll ask any immigration lawyer and check if these are sufficient grounds for reconsideration?

Incomplete application was the wrong way for me to phrase it. Rather your evidence / documentation wasn't sufficient given the missing consent form which is needed if you are traveling with minors independently.

IRCC deems an application complete if it meets the absolute basics (i.e. all forms complete, fees paid). It's a very low bar and it doesn't mean that the application has what it takes to be approved. Hope that makes sense.

FYI - siblings living in the home country aren't considered as a tie by IRCC. They are looking for immediately family as ties (e.g. spouse, children).

I'm not sure I would bother wasting lawyer fees on asking about reconsideration. I would just make that decision myself. Keep in mind that the consent is definitely missing so you can't ask for reconsideration without adding those key documents. This is what I was referring to when I said your application was incomplete (the consent forms). This is different from IRCC's definition of incomplete which is an extremely low bar. Incomplete applications are generally refused vs. returned. Onus is on the applicant to make sure the application is complete at the time of submission.

As an aside, if you used a lawyer for your application and the lawyer missed the consent forms, that's a pretty big fail on the laywer's part.

 

[nadeem55]

Incomplete application was the wrong way for me to phrase it. Rather your evidence / documentation wasn't sufficient given the missing consent form which is needed if you are traveling with minors independently.

IRCC deems an application complete if it meets the absolute basics (i.e. all forms complete, fees paid). It's a very low bar and it doesn't mean that the application has what it takes to be approved. Hope that makes sense.

FYI - siblings living in the home country aren't considered as a tie by IRCC. They are looking for immediately family as ties (e.g. spouse, children).

I'm not sure I would bother wasting lawyer fees on asking about reconsideration. I would just make that decision myself. Keep in mind that the consent is definitely missing so you can't ask for reconsideration without adding those key documents. This is what I was referring to when I said your application was incomplete (the consent forms). This is different from IRCC's definition of incomplete which is an extremely low bar. Incomplete applications are generally refused vs. returned. Onus is on the applicant to make sure the application is complete at the time of submission.

As an aside, if you used a lawyer for your application and the lawyer missed the consent forms, that's a pretty big fail on the laywer's part.

Thanks, but what I heard you only need consent for minors when you’re travelling to Canada, anyway, thanks for your insight!

 

[canuck78]

Thanks for your response, you’re a senior member and not expecting this judging response which is unrelated to my question,
When you say he’s the only siblings is naive judgement, also so many irrelevant questions ask which has nothing to do with my question.

please try to help the community which is why this forum for, I thought you guys are seniors, more active and might seen these cases to reply accordingly but anyway thanks.

All my questions and points highlight why the application was likely denied. Your children not having permission to travel is very unlikely to be the primary reason the visas were denied. If you only have one sibling then the fact that your brother lives in Canada and that your mother got PR in Canada in 2022 and the fact that your family has never traveled are likely the big issues to overcome. You have very strong ties to Canada and the fact that your mother recently got PR raises even more concern that you may be trying to join your family in Canada. The fact that non-visa exempt individuals can now apply for a WP from Canada and the downturn economies in many countries have lead to many extended family members visiting Canada with the intention of trying to remain in Canada. Given the cost of travel and the lack of travel history you should be justifying why you are travelling and why you are travelling with your two children and not alone for example. Without knowing your yearly income and amount of personal savings it ie hard to know whether it also makes economic sense to travel with your children.

 

[nadeem55]

More Siblings living out of Canada than in Canada (strong ties)
- half family (2 kids and spouse) will not be travelling (strong ties)
- Active business making handsome income and assets in bank (so no issue for funds or travelling) (strong ties)
- Mother got sponsored so that’s out of question why she’s PR etc… (she travel back and forth)
- Traveling with 2 elder kids because my brother’s kids are same age and want to spent some time with them (authentic reason to travel along with them)
- WP not interested, considering active profitable business in home country whereas job conditions and high inflation in Canada deter for this intention (mainly just for visit as they wanted to see us)

seen on news people already fleeing Canada why anyone with active profitable business should close its steady income and remain in Canada without any job or other income, makes no sense. Hope that answer your questions?

 

[canuck78]

More Siblings living out of Canada than in Canada (strong ties)
- half family (2 kids and spouse) will not be travelling (strong ties)
- Active business making handsome income and assets in bank (so no issue for funds or travelling) (strong ties)
- Mother got sponsored so that’s out of question why she’s PR etc… (she travel back and forth)
- Traveling with 2 elder kids because my brother’s kids are same age and want to spent some time with them (authentic reason to travel along with them)
- WP not interested, considering active profitable business in home country whereas job conditions and high inflation in Canada deter for this intention (mainly just for visit as they wanted to see us)

seen on news people already fleeing Canada why anyone with active profitable business should close its steady income and remain in Canada without any job or other income, makes no sense. Hope that answer your questions?

Without knowing what you define as handsome income and assets it is hard to know. It is fairly unusual to have no travel history if you have significant savings and assets. How many siblings do you have and how many live in your home country and do any of the other siblings live in another country? Are the other siblings men and are you the eldest male? What is the reasoning for travel at this point if you have had the income and if you mother spends time in your home country. Has your brother visited his home country recently? With his family? The fact that your original travel reason was to celebrate a birthday in August once August had passed the reason for travel was no longer valid.

 

[amira726]

It is mentioned in the visa application/online to submit the consent if only one parent intend to travel with children. That's applicant responsibility to provide not IRCC to tell applicant what's already mentioned.
Having savings or even travel history is not entirely necessary, the main thing VO looks at in application is the reason of visit.
I personally know many people who have had considerable amount of savings and cash in their bank account and travel history even USA travel but application denied on other reasons.