Visiting Canada after 3 years in US

[aryank2000]

Hi all -- My, my wife and kid got PR in 2012. Official Landing was in May 2011. Last entry date as PR was on Jan 1, 2013. So, me my wife and my older kid all have our PR cards valid until 2017. And in 2013, our second kid was born (US passport) ,and ever since we have not visited Canada. Due to my wife pregnancy, surgery etc. Now, we plan to visit Canada and move permanently sometime in July 2016. Below is our status

me - PR card
My wife - PR card
older kid - PR card
younger kid - US citizens

I know its not easy, but what are our chances of getting entry into Canada? What issues might we face at the Port of entry? Any chances at all?
Please suggest. Thank you for being patient in reading this.

 

[Rob_TO]

Hi all -- My, my wife and kid got PR in 2012. Official Landing was in May 2011. Last entry date as PR was on Jan 1, 2013. So, me my wife and my older kid all have our PR cards valid until 2017. And in 2013, our second kid was born (US passport) ,and ever since we have not visited Canada. Due to my wife pregnancy, surgery etc. Now, we plan to visit Canada and move permanently sometime in July 2016. Below is our status

me - PR card
My wife - PR card
older kid - PR card
younger kid - US citizens

I know its not easy, but what are our chances of getting entry into Canada? What issues might we face at the Port of entry? Any chances at all?
Please suggest. Thank you for being patient in reading this.

You have a few problems.
1. There's a good chance upon trying to enter Canada, you'll be reported for not meeting the residency obligation. If this happens you can choose to appeal and enter Canada still, but since you don't seem to have a good H&C reason (it was your personal choice to go to US), appeal would probably be denied and you would all lose PR status.
2. If you can make it into Canada without being reported, you must then stay here 2 straight years without leaving even once, until you are back in compliance with the RO. Only then can you apply to renew your PR cards. Also during this time, you can't apply for PR for your US citizen child so he will need to stay here as a visitor for several years. It may be hard to enroll him in school without PR status, and get other things for him.

 

[aryank2000]

thank you. To me, entering is more important. How long does appeal status take after i enter? can i work during this appeal period?

 

[axelfoley]

I am in a very similar position to you! My PR card expired over 5 years ago.

I plan to go to Canada soon. On arrival, I expect to be reported for not meeting the Residency Obligation ("RO") under s.44 report. As far as I know the immigration officers cannot stop a Permanent Resident from entering Canada when they are in breach of the RO, but they may report them for the breach and give them a piece of paper that confirms that.

I then plan to appeal the Removal Order they will give me at the airport by filling in the relevant form available from http://www.irb-cisr.gc.ca/Eng/res/form/Pages/IadSaiAppForm.aspx (you can choose which city you want to appeal in, Vancouver, Toronto or Montreal) and submitting within 15 days (I think 30 days is the limit, but getting it in on time is important). The form is not difficult.

Then I plan to apply for a renewal of my expired PR card and obtain a temporary 1 year PR card. The renewal form is available here: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/prcard.asp

In case I do get reported for not meeting the RO, as far as I know I am allowed to apply for and obtain a temporary 1 year PR card while waiting for the appeal date at the IAD. If the hearing takes longer than a year, then you are allowed to keep applying to renew the 1 year PR card when it gets close to expiry.

Yes you can work while you are on appeal. You need an SIN to work. If you don't have one already, you need a valid PR card to get one, which you have. What I think you may have difficulty with is to sponsor your child. I am not expert on that aspect...

I am hearing that in Vancouver it takes about 18 months to get in front of the IAD but in Toronto, as long as 2 years or more in some case. I noticed some cases on the http://www.canlii.org/ website for 2016 that some cases for RO appeal are taking more than 2 years to get a date to present your appeal at the IAD (see http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/irb/nav/date/2016_03.html). Here is a specific example: http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/irb/doc/2016/2016canlii21938/2016canlii21938.html

My strategy, therefore, is to spend up to 2 years working in Canada after being reported for not meeting RO. Then, in case I lose my appeal, at the IAD on H&C grounds, I will simply get my employer to give me a high-skilled permanent job offer so that I can be in priority position to re-apply for PR based on express entry in the future.

 

[Bs65]

I am in a very similar position to you! My PR card expired over 5 years ago.

I plan to go to Canada soon. On arrival, I expect to be reported for not meeting the Residency Obligation ("RO") under s.44 report. As far as I know the immigration officers cannot stop a Permanent Resident from entering Canada when they are in breach of the RO, but they may report them for the breach and give them a piece of paper that confirms that.

I then plan to appeal the Removal Order they will give me at the airport by filling in the relevant form available from http://www.irb-cisr.gc.ca/Eng/res/form/Pages/IadSaiAppForm.aspx (you can choose which city you want to appeal in, Vancouver, Toronto or Montreal) and submitting within 15 days (I think 30 days is the limit, but getting it in on time is important). The form is not difficult.

Then I plan to apply for a renewal of my expired PR card and obtain a temporary 1 year PR card. The renewal form is available here: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/information/applications/prcard.asp

In case I do get reported for not meeting the RO, as far as I know I am allowed to apply for and obtain a temporary 1 year PR card while waiting for the appeal date at the IAD. If the hearing takes longer than a year, then you are allowed to keep applying to renew the 1 year PR card when it gets close to expiry.

Yes you can work while you are on appeal. You need an SIN to work. If you don't have one already, you need a valid PR card to get one, which you have. What I think you may have difficulty with is to sponsor your child. I am not expert on that aspect...

I am hearing that in Vancouver it takes about 18 months to get in front of the IAD but in Toronto, as long as 2 years or more in some case. I noticed some cases on the http://www.canlii.org/ website for 2016 that some cases for RO appeal are taking more than 2 years to get a date to present your appeal at the IAD (see http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/irb/nav/date/2016_03.html). Here is a specific example: http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/irb/doc/2016/2016canlii21938/2016canlii21938.html

My strategy, therefore, is to spend up to 2 years working in Canada after being reported for not meeting RO. Then, in case I lose my appeal, at the IAD on H&C grounds, I will simply get my employer to give me a high-skilled permanent job offer so that I can be in priority position to re-apply for PR based on express entry in the future.

I guess this plan really relies on how many years you have been out of Canada to stand any chance plus success with an H&C case would have to have exceptional circumstances to succeed especially if you were out of Canada by choice in first place. Probably best to get legal advice to succeed.

The final part of the plan sort of assumes that CIC wont hold your RO failure and subsequent appeal against you as a consideration for any future PR that you may fail RO again probably wont make a difference but who knows.. Then again maybe the fact that this could be 2 years down the line then theoretically you build some residency record whilst waiting.

 

[axelfoley]

Thanks Bs65.

I shall be building my H&C case carefully and intend to consult a lawyer ahead of the appeal to the IAD. At this stage I rate my chances as 50-50. My case will be built primarily upon the fact I was supporting my elderly sick mother abroad, so not out of choice.

As you say, in the mean time I hope to build some residency and pay some taxes etc. whilst waiting for the IAD hearing date.

My hope that failure to meet RO, being reported and then losing PR after failing to win an appeal to the IAD does not have implications for a future PR application? My expectation is that you get a "clean slate" and are treated only on the basis of your points when you make a fresh PR application - I hope I am not wrong on that, otherwise my plan would fail, as you say...

 

[kirch]

Hi all -- My, my wife and kid got PR in 2012. Official Landing was in May 2011. Last entry date as PR was on Jan 1, 2013. So, me my wife and my older kid all have our PR cards valid until 2017. And in 2013, our second kid was born (US passport) ,and ever since we have not visited Canada. Due to my wife pregnancy, surgery etc. Now, we plan to visit Canada and move permanently sometime in July 2016. Below is our status

me - PR card
My wife - PR card
older kid - PR card
younger kid - US citizens

I know its not easy, but what are our chances of getting entry into Canada? What issues might we face at the Port of entry? Any chances at all?
Please suggest. Thank you for being patient in reading this.

Your official landing date is May 2011 and 5 year from that will be May 2016
So you should have stayed in Canada at least 730 days to meet requirements to renew your PR card
If you are shot by few days ,you have chances to appeal on H & C grounds
If you have stayed only for few days (under 30 days) in last 5 years ,consult a immigration lawyer and proceed cos it is very risky and unlikely to get renewal

 

[dpenabill]

My hope that failure to meet RO, being reported and then losing PR after failing to win an appeal to the IAD does not have implications for a future PR application? My expectation is that you get a "clean slate" and are treated only on the basis of your points when you make a fresh PR application - I hope I am not wrong on that, otherwise my plan would fail, as you say...

Generally, so far as can be discerned, losing PR status for breach of the PR RO does not result in any negative impact on a subsequent PR application. Whether PR status is surrendered, or lost with or without an appeal, it should not have a negative impact. However, to the extent there is any negative credibility determination, that could have a negative impact. So, however you approach the imbroglio, be sure to stay accurate and honest and complete in all the information you submit.

 

[axelfoley]

Message received loud and clear. There is no way I am going to misrepresent what happened in terms of when I try to appeal my failure to meet RO on the basis of H&C grounds. I take your point fully and will ensure I do not lack credibility in my appeal to avoid any future issues.

 

[axelfoley]

Message for aryank2000

I can't send you a PM as your inbox is full as per:

"PM could not be sent to 'aryank2000' as their inbox is full!"

 

[GodsGiftToCanada]

I am in a very similar position to you! My PR card expired over 5 years ago.

I plan to go to Canada soon. On arrival, I expect to be reported for not meeting the Residency Obligation ("RO") under s.44 report. As far as I know the immigration officers cannot stop a Permanent Resident from entering Canada when they are in breach of the RO, but they may report them for the breach and give them a piece of paper that confirms that.

I then plan to appeal the Removal Order they will give me at the airport by filling in the relevant form available from <Deleted> (you can choose which city you want to appeal in, Vancouver, Toronto or Montreal) and submitting within 15 days (I think 30 days is the limit, but getting it in on time is important). The form is not difficult.

Then I plan to apply for a renewal of my expired PR card and obtain a temporary 1 year PR card. The renewal form is available here: <Because>

In case I do get reported for not meeting the RO, as far as I know I am allowed to apply for and obtain a temporary 1 year PR card while waiting for the appeal date at the IAD. If the hearing takes longer than a year, then you are allowed to keep applying to renew the 1 year PR card when it gets close to expiry.

Yes you can work while you are on appeal. You need an SIN to work. If you don't have one already, you need a valid PR card to get one, which you have. What I think you may have difficulty with is to sponsor your child. I am not expert on that aspect...

I am hearing that in Vancouver it takes about 18 months to get in front of the IAD but in Toronto, as long as 2 years or more in some case. I noticed some cases on the I website for 2016 that some cases for RO appeal are taking more than 2 years to get a date to present your appeal at the IAD (see am. Here is a specific example: not

My strategy, therefore, is to spend up to 2 years working in Canada after being reported for not meeting RO. Then, in case I lose my appeal, at the IAD on H&C grounds, I will simply get my employer to give me a high-skilled permanent job offer so that I can be in priority position to re-apply for PR based on express entry in the future.

Great strategy. Please keep us posted about what happened at the border. I am in the same boat as you (actually worse - my card expired 8 years ago, and I haven't set foot in Canada in 13 years). Let us know also how you entered Canada ? Driving ? Airport ? In either case, which one ? What questions did the border guy ask you, and what responses have you given.

For those who would rather go back to school than work, a similar strategy I thought about was to use the appeal time delay to get a master's degree in one of the fields that enable one to get selected as a British Columbia provincial nominee without a job offer. The master's has to be gotten from a Canadian university.

 

[axelfoley]

@GodsGiftToCanada

Thank you!! It took me some time to figure out this strategy, but I could never have done it without this forum and the sharing of information here. I have gained from the knowledge from others here and will be happy to share my own experiences (the immigration consultant I retained has been slow and not given me pertinent or incisive advice).

I will certainly update you here as to how I got back into Canada (I am visa-exempt). The problem is that eTA will be compulsory from 29th September, so it means anyone in this type of position (visa-exempt, with a long expired PR card and not much time in Canada in the last 5 years) should act soon. I will be happy to share what questions I am asked about my failure to meet Residency Obligation and what the outcome at the POE is. You will know in about a month!

One quirk seems to be the office where you file the appeal for breach of RO can be Vancouver, Toronto or Montreal. However, I understand that this is based on where you last resided, or where you currently reside in Canada. It also appears that when you are under appeal you have to tell the IAD office where you moved to and obviously lying about where you are actually staying in Canada is a bad idea. The reason this choice may be important is that it appears (from my analysis of cases at http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/irb/nav/date/2016.html ) that Montreal (it appears to me, anyway) takes far longer than the other two offices. That is based on my own analysis and what I have heard anecdotally, but feel free to check for yourself. That is why I am planning to lease a small bachelor pad in Montreal and then, if I have a job that is elsewhere in Canada, I shall ask the employer to specify in the contract that I am eligible to do remote working from my home address for some percentage of the time, say 50%. I do software type work that can be done from home.

Like you, I also thought about enrolling for a Masters degree (in Alberta) in a field that could benefit me professionally. The fees for Permanent Residents is far less than international students, and also I feel that that time should count positively towards any future re-application under Canadian Experience Class. So that strategy (of what you do whilst in Canada) could work for you and others. Others who have children who are of school age, and those kids are already PRs themselves, may benefit from having them in school for 2-3 years, which I think makes it difficult for an IAD ajudicator to refuse a reasonable RO appeal, at least based on the RO appeal cases I have studied on http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/irb/nav/date/2016.html

In my case, I need to generate some income, and is the main reason for me to be in Canada, so I will probably try to ingratiate myself with the employer I have lined up to such an extent that he becomes reliant upon me therefore would go through the effort of getting LMIA for me for a new job offer, in case I lose my RO appeal and therefore lose PR status maybe 2-3 years down the line.