US vs Canadian citz

[boltz]

I am sure this was beaten up many times- my Q is little more specific. Pls clarify.

Source: http://canada.usembassy.gov/mobile//consular_services/dual-citizenship.html

"A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth. U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship over another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship. Intent can be shown by the person's statements or conduct."

What does the statement that has 'may lose' mean here?

Does it in any way saying that a US citz will loose the US citz if canada citz is acquired?

Thanks

 

[anon123]

If you acquired US citizenship by birth, you can take other citizenships and keep the US one. If you acquired US citizenship by naturalization and then acquire other citizenship, you may lose the US one. "Intent can be shown by the person's statements or conduct." may be if you don't pay taxes? As a US citizen you are required to pay taxes anywhere in the world you live.

Why would a naturalized US citizen want to obtain Canadian citizenship and keep his/her US citizenship is beyond my imagination.

 

[alphazip]

I am sure this was beaten up many times- my Q is little more specific. Pls clarify.

"A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth. U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship over another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship. Intent can be shown by the person's statements or conduct."

What does the statement that has 'may lose' mean here?

Does it in any way saying that a US citz will loose the US citz if canada citz is acquired?


Thanks

For a number of years now, the U.S. has taken the position that a person acquiring another citizenship does so with the intention of RETAINING U.S. citizenship. In fact, it is somewhat difficult (and expensive) to drop U.S. citizenship, even if you want to. Therefore, you don't need to worry about losing U.S. citizenship by becoming a Canadian citizen.

 

[alphazip]

If you acquired US citizenship by birth, you can take other citizenships and keep the US one. If you acquired US citizenship by naturalization and then acquire other citizenship, you may lose the US one. "Intent can be shown by the person's statements or conduct." may be if you don't pay taxes? As a US citizen you are required to pay taxes anywhere in the world you live.

Why would a naturalized US citizen want to obtain Canadian citizenship and keep his/her US citizenship is beyond my imagination.

That's not what the quoted statement means . It means if a person was born with more than one citizenship (say, born in Canada with a U.S. parent), there is no problem having more than one citizenship. However, if a U.S. citizen (doesn't matter whether natural born or naturalized) takes another citizenship through naturalization, there are conditions under which that person could lose his/her U.S. citizenship. Nowadays, it is the policy of the U.S. State Department to assume that every U.S. citizen taking another citizenship does so with the intention of retaining their U.S. citizenship. If your intention is to give up U.S. citizenship, you are required to visit a U.S. embassy or consulate and declare your intention, after which, if accepted, you will receive a Certificate of Loss of Nationality. (Or, if mere intention is not considered a strong enough reason, you may be required to pay US$2,000+ to renounce your U.S. citizenship, which will not be granted if you owe any back taxes.) The U.S. wants to keep you as a citizen, for monetary reasons if for no other.

Why would a U.S. citizen living in Canada want to keep that citizenship? Well, what if after living in Canada for 40 years the person wants to retire to Arizona? It's sure a lot easier with U.S. citizenship than without it.

 

[YorkFactory]

If you acquired US citizenship by birth, you can take other citizenships and keep the US one. If you acquired US citizenship by naturalization and then acquire other citizenship, you may lose the US one. "Intent can be shown by the person's statements or conduct." may be if you don't pay taxes? As a US citizen you are required to pay taxes anywhere in the world you live.

All that matters is whether you intend to remain a U.S. citizen. Whether you got your U.S. citizenship by birth or by naturalization is irrelevant.

 

[boltz]

So, becoming canadian would not necessarily automatically disqualify/renounce US citizenship. Rather, one won't lose US citz unless intent expressed by self.

Is this an accurate statement?

 

[Natan]

A United States citizen may acquire another citizenship, regardless of how they acquired U.S. citizenship, without losing their U.S. citizenship, PROVIDED that it was not their intent to relinquish their U.S. citizenship at the time they acquired the new citizenship. Intent to maintain U.S. citizenship can be established by acting in a way only a U.S. citizen would act, e.g., entering the U.S.A. on a U.S. travel document, voting in U.S. elections, filing U.S. tax returns.

It should be noted, however, that acquiring another citizenship is a potentially expatriating act, as are standing for elective office in a foreign country, enlisting or being drafted into a foreign military, and taking a policy making position in a foreign governmental body. To avoid misunderstandings with the Department of State, it is important that one's actions and speech are consistent with someone who INTENDS to maintain their American citizenship.

Before committing a potentially expatriating act, it might be wise to commit one's intentions to paper, and to have that paper notarized. I provide an example below:

This is to certify that I, [insert full name], intend to retain United States of America (American) citizenship.

Should I seek or claim the benefits of nationality in a foreign state, it shall not be my intention to relinquish American citizenship. Notwithstanding any such action, it is and shall be my intention to retain American citizenship.

Should I become registered or naturalized as a citizen of a foreign state, it shall not be my intention to relinquish American citizenship. Notwithstanding any such action, it is and shall be my intention to retain American citizenship.

Should I take an oath or make an affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or its political subdivisions, it shall not be my intention to relinquish American citizenship. Notwithstanding any such action, it is and shall be my intention to retain American citizenship.

Should I seek, stand for election, be elected, be accepted, serve in, or perform the duties of any office, post or employment under the government of a foreign state, it shall not be my intention to relinquish American citizenship. Notwithstanding any such action, it is and shall be my intention to retain American citizenship.

Should I enter or serve in the armed forces of a foreign state, it shall not be my intention to relinquish American citizenship. Notwithstanding any such action, it is and shall be my intention to retain American citizenship.

 

[alphazip]

So, becoming canadian would not necessarily automatically disqualify/renounce US citizenship. Rather, one won't lose US citz unless intent expressed by self.

Is this an accurate statement?

As I stated above, it is difficult to lose U.S. citizenship. It would have to be your intention to lose it and you would have to take proactive steps to do so, which would involve a visit to the U.S. Embassy or Consulate. There used to be a time when people were stripped of their U.S. citizenship for taking a foreign citizenship, voting in a foreign election, etc., but those days are long gone. Nowadays, the people who want to rid themselves of U.S. citizenship (mainly for tax reasons) have a hard time doing so! (For that aspect, see: http://isaacbrocksociety.ca)

Again, the act of becoming a Canadian citizen does not threaten your U.S. citizenship. There are thought to be one million dual U.S.-Canadian citizens in Canada at this moment, and I see no stories of any of them losing their U.S. citizenship against their will.

This is from the U.S. Embassy (Ottawa) website:

"If you are a U.S. citizen who has acquired or plans to acquire Canadian citizenship, and you intend to relinquish your U.S. citizenship or wish to relinquish your U.S. citizenship, please discuss with the U.S. Embassy or Consulate the procedures necessary to formalize this. There will be a US$2,350 fee to document formal renunciation of U.S. citizenship."

So, on the other hand, if you do not intend or wish to relinquish your citizenship, you need do nothing.

 

[keesio]

So, becoming canadian would not necessarily automatically disqualify/renounce US citizenship. Rather, one won't lose US citz unless intent expressed by self.

Is this an accurate statement?

Yes. I'm living proof.

I was born in the US and thus a US citizen. I recently also became a Canadian citizen 2 years ago. So now I have dual citizenship.

As others said, not only can you keep your US citizenship when you acquire another, it is actually hard to give it up! The fees are high and there is a current waiting list of a year because of the backup. And yes, many Americans are trying to give it up because of the pain in the butt that US tax laws are for US expats.

 

[MUFC]

I've renounced my US citizenship for the same reason ----> The US Tax Laws.

Back in the days the whole procedure took me about 2 weeks. I remember that I had to fill some applications to prove my intention to give up my US passport.
It was very cheap back then.

 

[polara69]

A friend of mine tried to return his US passport, he was born there, as well as his parents, grandparents and further back. The embassy made it sooo hard on him, cost, time involved, that in the end he kept US citizenship...for now.

 

[keesio]

The other issue with giving up US citizenship is that you have this black mark on your record. I hear they give ex-citizens a hard time. When trying to visit, when applying for a business visa, when trying to do business with the US, etc. Basically you better be sure that you have no plans ever to go back to the US and have no need to do business there.

 

[boltz]

Great insights; thank u.

I am bothered about my child 7 yr born USA citz; and eventually acquiring canadian citz when dust settles down (whenever that happens).

Surely many must b in same boat.

So, is there any precautions/ steps to take here.

Natan - should/can self declaration notarized possible for minor 7 yr old?

 

[Natan]

Great insights; thank u.

I am bothered about my child 7 yr born USA citz; and eventually acquiring canadian citz when dust settles down (whenever that happens).

Surely many must b in same boat.

So, is there any precautions/ steps to take here.

Natan - should/can self declaration notarized possible for minor 7 yr old?

Your 7 year old may become a Canadian citizen without risking the loss of U.S. citizenship -- there's no need for your child to sign a document to that effect, and it's unlikely that such a document could be notarized or would have legal standing. There are a couple of precautions I would recommend, however:

1. When asked to disclose citizenship on any form, ALWAYS include US citizenship -- failure to do so could be used by the U.S. State Department as a rationale to revoke citizenship. (There is a rumoured case of a dual citizen who had their U.S. citizenship revoked for failing to disclose U.S. citizenship on a Canadian passport application.)

2. A U.S. citizen should always use a U.S. travel document (e.g., passport) when entering and exiting the U.S.A. Unless specifically asked, never provide a foreign travel document to a U.S. immigration or police officer. A U.S. citizen may present a Canadian enhanced drivers licence to a police officer, but never use it to enter the U.S.A. (Always possessing a valid U.S. passport in your child's name would establish intent to maintain your child's U.S. citizenship.)

For the record, current U.S. Department of State policy takes the position that all potentially expatriating acts are done with the intent to maintain U.S. citizenship. Note that this is current policy, not law or regulation. A change in administration could result in a change of this policy, without notice and retroactively.

 

[boltz]

Your 7 year old may become a Canadian citizen without risking the loss of U.S. citizenship -- there's no need for your child to sign a document to that effect, and it's unlikely that such a document could be notarized or would have legal standing. There are a couple of precautions I would recommend, however:

1. When asked to disclose citizenship on any form, ALWAYS include US citizenship -- failure to do so could be used by the U.S. State Department as a rationale to revoke citizenship. (There is a rumoured case of a dual citizen who had their U.S. citizenship revoked for failing to disclose U.S. citizenship on a Canadian passport application.)

2. A U.S. citizen should always use a U.S. travel document (e.g., passport) when entering and exiting the U.S.A. Unless specifically asked, never provide a foreign travel document to a U.S. immigration or police officer. A U.S. citizen may present a Canadian enhanced drivers licence to a police officer, but never use it to enter the U.S.A. (Always possessing a valid U.S. passport in your child's name would establish intent to maintain your child's U.S. citizenship.)

For the record, current U.S. Department of State policy takes the position that all potentially expatriating acts are done with the intent to maintain U.S. citizenship. Note that this is current policy, not law or regulation. A change in administration could result in a change of this policy, without notice and retroactively.

Natan - thanks; +1 to you for your awesome clarity in your posts. Also, a warm welcome to the forum