Tricky Situation -Documents to show Family in Canada

[singh84a]

Hi All,

I am a Canadian Citizen. I actually turned Canadian Citizen a month ago, and I have my brother filing for Canadian PR based on FSW. Although he is able to complete his 67 points (ifhe gets 22 on language Requirements thru IELTS), I am planning to show myself as his family in Canada so that he can get the additional 5 points and solidify his file.

However here is the tricky situation - Although I am a Canadian Citizen, I have temporarily moved out of Canada to the US.(at least 2 years). Therefore, I do not have any lease, phone statements, car insurance copies, job offer letters from Canada. However what i do have is my bank account and I use it often like to do transactions and also do use my credit card.

So what kind of supporting documents can I provide to ensure that my brother can get the additional 5 points. I have lived in Canada for 8 years, provided that I came to Canada as a student and moved my journey all the way up to Citizenship.

Please advise.

 

[scylla]

Your brother can't get 5 points if you are living in the US. You need to be physically living in Canada for him to get the points.

Anyone can have a bank statement and this doesn't prove you are living in Canada. This is why CIC requests leases, proof of employment, etc.

So your brother should forget about these additional adaptability points.

 

[on-hold]

Living in Canada doesn't mean you need to have job or lease statement. There is no major requirement. People who are Canadian Citizens work on cash and live on rentals with no lease. The requirement is show family and its presence in Canada. Not having a job, car, or lease.

That being said, I do have my CRA copies of the past 8 years (including 2013) and can always get a phone number on my name and pay 30 bucks a month and get some other utility on my name.

I do have my driver's licence, health card and stuff valid until 2016.

This is honestly the funniest quote that I've seen in a long time -- you write first that you aren't living in Canada, but want to appear as you are; then you write that 'living in Canada doesn't need you mean to have a job or lease statement." Well, you're right! Lots of people don't have those things. Unfortunately, 'living in Canada' does mean that you have to be living in Canada -- the people who don't have leases or bank accounts but are 'living in Canada' are within Canada's borders, not outside. You're trying to act as if 'living in Canada' is some technical evidentiary standard which is met by having a bank account, or a phone bill, or Hydro account, or something.

I don't believe that your brother has 67 points -- if he did, why would he risk a two-year ban for mis-representation for lying about your country of residence?

P.S. Your driving license is invalid in the States after a period of time (usually one month), and your health cared is invalid in Canada after three months (I think, depending on the province).

 

[scylla]

Living in Canada doesn't mean you need to have job or lease statement. There is no major requirement. People who are Canadian Citizens work on cash and live on rentals with no lease. The requirement is show family and its presence in Canada. Not having a job, car, or lease.

That being said, I do have my CRA copies of the past 8 years (including 2013) and can always get a phone number on my name and pay 30 bucks a month and get some other utility on my name.

I do have my driver's licence, health card and stuff valid until 2016.

Here's what it comes down to... In order to claim points for you, your brother will have to lie in his application and say that you are living in Canada when you are not. Lying on PR applications is always a bad idea because it can at times lead to a misrepresentation charge and ban (in addition to a refusal). Maybe this lie will be caught or maybe it won't. But why risk it and put the application in jeopardy if your brother already has 67 points? I don't understand why anyone would do that.

 

[canvis2006]

Agree with the others, You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Either brother manages without relative points, or he risks misrepresentation (total loss).

Your decision.

 

[Pipis Husband]

All,

Thanks for your input. I very well knew this is a Tricky Situation and therefore I asked for it.

Also, if you guys read my Original Post, i clearly mentioned that I am temporarily away from Canada. I am in the states because of work. However I have lived in Canada for 8 long years and plan to come back. It made no sense to me to have lease, car and other bills in Canada if I wasn't gonna be there for 2 years or so. These things, I said earlier, are tangible and can be easily achieved later on. However, due to teh FSW, I was wondering if my brother can get those points. But I agree, lying on the application is not a great idea. However, the application does not clearly ask if you have intentions to live in Canada in the longer run

That being said, my brother will be able to make 67 points, Also I did mention taht depends on how good he scores in IETLS. He did score 7.5 in Academic IELTS 5 years back, so am sure he probably can get min 22 points overall. Also, the reason I wanted to add my points were coz the application says to include a copy of passport, and says for presence in Canada you MAY (read carefully) include tax return notices (which iDO HAVE), monthly bills (doesn't says which one), copies of credit cards and bank statements (WHICH I DO HAVE) and lease or job statements.

It does not clearly say that you MUST (Rememeber MAY and MUST have different meanings), so those above documents are supportive documents, but nothing can clearly say what can prove residency.

Just for an FYI - When I applied for my Canadian passport, i told them I live in US and provided a copy of my US Drivers' licence even though I had G from Ontario and it was valid. US Driver's license is an acceptable document to apply for Canadian Passport.

Lastly - My OHIP and G license are both valid, as I was in Service Ontario last week and had renewed my address on both of them and got a letter that says OHIP is ACTIVE and License is in GOOD STANDING CONDITION.

Good Luck!

Hi, I read all the opinions expressed above and I don't have any opinion for you, just facts.
According to the Document Checklist, item 14 (http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/kits/forms/IMM5612E.pdf), if you are a Canadian permanent resident or Canadian citizen, then your brother may claims points for having a relative in Canada. If a permanent resident, you need to provide him a copy of your:
• Record of Landing (IMM 1000) or
• Confirmation of Permanent Residence, or
• Permanent Resident Card.

Since you are a citizen, you can provide him either;
• photo page of a Canadian passport,or
• Canadian citizenship card
Finally, an Indian citizen is an Indian citizen wether he lives in New Delhi or New York. You are a Canadian, wether you live in Toronto or Los Angeles so please go ahead and help your brother. I wish him the best ahead

 

[on-hold]

All,

Also, the reason I wanted to add my points were coz the application says to include a copy of passport, and says for presence in Canada you MAY (read carefully) include tax return notices (which iDO HAVE), monthly bills (doesn't says which one), copies of credit cards and bank statements (WHICH I DO HAVE) and lease or job statements.

It does not clearly say that you MUST (Rememeber MAY and MUST have different meanings), so those above documents are supportive documents, but nothing can clearly say what can prove residency.

Just for an FYI - When I applied for my Canadian passport, i told them I live in US and provided a copy of my US Drivers' licence even though I had G from Ontario and it was valid. US Driver's license is an acceptable document to apply for Canadian Passport.

Lastly - My OHIP and G license are both valid, as I was in Service Ontario last week and had renewed my address on both of them and got a letter that says OHIP is ACTIVE and License is in GOOD STANDING CONDITION.

Good Luck!

How can your G license be valid, when you don't have an Ontario address? Does Ontario issue driving licenses with out-of-province or American addresses? is the address on your Ontario license the one where you are living now? As for your OHIP, here is a line from Service Ontario:

When you update a driver’s licence or vehicle permit, you must also update the address on your health card.

Does OHIP issue health cards with out-of-province or American addresses? Is that the address that you renewed?

I suspect what you mean when you say these things are 'valid' is that you haven't reached the expiry date on them, or the province is unaware that you're living in another jurisdiction. After you've been out of Ontario for a certain number of months, your OHIP coverage is void even if you do have a card in your wallet.

 

[on-hold]

Hi, I read all the opinions expressed above and I don't have any opinion for you, just facts.
According to the Document Checklist, item 14 (http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/kits/forms/IMM5612E.pdf), if you are a Canadian permanent resident or Canadian citizen, then your brother may claims points for having a relative in Canada. If a permanent resident, you need to provide him a copy of your:
• Record of Landing (IMM 1000) or
• Confirmation of Permanent Residence, or
• Permanent Resident Card.

There three final words in the requirement to receive points for having a Canadian relative (from your link):

Submit proof of relationship showing you have, or your accompanying spouse/common-law partner has a close relative who is 18 years of age or older and who is a Canadian citizen or permanent resident living in Canada.

I believe that clause applies to both Canadian citizen and permanent resident.

 

[Pipis Husband]

There you go! now you get my point. This is the trickyness - Also read the post above if it makes sense to you.


Honestly, proving residence is no brainer if you want to, but again I asked is it really required. I know what I'm going to do. not use it as my brother completes hi 67 points, but again, only if he gets 22 in Language Proficiency

Your brother won't get points deducted if he uses your available documents. If CIC thinks your documents don't count, they will just put them aside and won't issue points for them. No loss on your brother's part, especially if the IELTS comes through. Cheers.

 

[Pipis Husband]

Yes, Thank you for the understanding, Again I am not going to lie. I will give them a copy of my passport, my bank statements and other information but also declare that I live in US.

If they accept it well enough! if not - no problem - You have to declare your family information and address anyways.

lastly - In any case we will be knowing the IELTS score soon, so we can be assured that will he needs my 5 stupid points or not

Also, just a random question - What is the impact on the PR application is the Visitor visa was earlier rejected

It's really up to the case officer at the VO. If they feel your brother has put forward an FSW application that proves that he will be able to become economically established in Canada this time as against his not being able to satisfy the visitor's visa requirements before, he will get his PR. Cheers mate.

 

[dbss]

I don't know if OP is asking for information or giving information....

He wants his brother to get the five points understood...people have said he can't get it because he does not have RESIDENCE in Canada...if OP still thinks his brother should get the points he should just go ahead and put it through...couple of issues with the scenarios OP mentioned:

1 - CRA copies of reciepts - I have for 8 years including 2013 is the OP considered a tax resident for his stay in Canada..if yes, he is a resident of Canada...most likely it is a no because he has been out of the country for a while unless special circumstances are shown which the group has not been made aware
2 - Ontario License and Health Card - Have both and Valid (but do not prove residence permanently) Since OP does not live on any of the addresses hence he cannot say they are his addresses
3 - Credit Card Bills and Bank Statements - I have them but again not a strong evidence VO's know how easy it is to fabricate these things and hence they don't provide a strong evidence...and plus since you live in the states, you will most probably be using them in states and very less in Canada
4 - Montly Bills - Do not have any - BUT Can always buy a VONAGE or any VOIP COnnection on my Ontario license address and even get a cell phone for 30 bucks a month again you can do all this but if caught, be ready to face the consequnces and VO's know how to check what kind of a service VONAGE is..remember VO's were born and brought up here in Canada...
5 - Lease or employment lettter - Do not have it but can always say I am job less and living on cash. with 8 years being in Canada that is no brainer to get OP is openly saying that he lives in US and I am sure CBSA has his entries...unless he plans on living in US and never enter Canada, CBSA will record him entering Canada...this is the most extreme measure that the VO will go to but does not mean he/she won't

For the US license, how did OP get the US license... did he notify the authorities in US he as a license from Ontario....if yes, did they ask him to surrender his license to get the new one...anyway...it is something the OP has to deal with...if he gets caught, his bad luck....

I don't understand what the commotion is about...

I think the OP should just stay with the facts and send the required paperwork...

 

[dbss]

Ok, read my latest post and then you will have an idea how I have 2 licenses.
Again, there is no law that says your Canadian License gets cancelled when u exchange it for US one. I was given my Canadian license back when I applied for US one.

Agreed....but you still didn't explain how you got the US license.

Anyway, we don't care..this is a forum and we all here to help each other..

 

[dbss]

You got to be kidding me . So read this

When I completed my days for Canadain Citizenship and left Canada and went to the US, i went to a local DMC in my state and assked for a license transfer from Canadain to US. I also had gotten my SSN since I am a resident and eligible for itt. They saw my Canadian license, saw my legal resident status, took my piccture, eye test and told me you will get a license in 2 weeks. they also gave my canadian license back. They tol we don't take caaadian and surrender it, however if it was any other state we take it as in US you cannot have 2 states license at once, but Canada is not a state a SEPERATE country.

This is how I got my US license - Also, when I was in Canada last week, I went to Service Ontario and told them, they said we don't cancel ur license until u surrender it as Ontario liccense is not synced with US states. If you want we can surrender or you can give a friend'ss address or so. which I did.

No, I am not kidding anybody. If that's the way you got it...good for you...as I previously said, we don't care how you got it....

 

[torontosm]

You got to be kidding me . So read this

When I completed my days for Canadain Citizenship and left Canada and went to the US, i went to a local DMC in my state and assked for a license transfer from Canadain to US. I also had gotten my SSN since I am a resident and eligible for itt. They saw my Canadian license, saw my legal resident status, took my piccture, eye test and told me you will get a license in 2 weeks. they also gave my canadian license back. They tol we don't take caaadian and surrender it, however if it was any other state we take it as in US you cannot have 2 states license at once, but Canada is not a state a SEPERATE country.

This is how I got my US license - Also, when I was in Canada last week, I went to Service Ontario and told them, they said we don't cancel ur license until u surrender it as Ontario liccense is not synced with US states. If you want we can surrender or you can give a friend'ss address or so. which I did.

Just so you are aware, by keeping your Drivers License and Health Card "active", you are risking being deemed a Resident for tax purposes by the CRA, and having your income taxable in Canada as well.