The child was born outside of Canada to a Canadian citizen. Can the child apply for PR?

[armoured]

The child has approved ETA and he is currently in Canada as a visitor now. The Toronto District School Board is currently closed due to the New Year holiday, and we're unable to reach them for inquiries. If we still need proof that our child has applied for citizenship certificate, we'll have to proceed with the citizenship application for our child first.

Technically they shouldn't have issued and you shouldn't have indicated the child is not a citizen, but as far as I'm aware there's no practical 'punishment' for that. (And apart from geeks - like me - on boards like this, not many people will know/get the distinction between not being a citizen and not having actually applied yet for a citizenship one holds automatically).

You can try TDSB with copy of your citizenship info and birth certificate. My impression is that it's not a very money-driven organization. But they might, for example, insist you provide the citizenship info later and defer the fees until later.

 

[armoured]

Yes, because the child hasn't applied for Canadian citizenship certificate yet. He doesn't have the certificate to get a Canadian passport.

As I noted, the distinction is that the child's citizenship is automatic but not yet documented (and documentation is not automatic); or, basically, status of a presumed citizen. And citizens need to travel on Canadian documents (mostly). But without you providing the info, they don't technically have any way to capture such cases.

And the reality is, there's no mechanism and they're not tremendously strict about it, esp when it comes to minors.

 

[Simba112]

Yes, because the child hasn't applied for Canadian citizenship certificate yet. He doesn't have the certificate to get a Canadian passport.

Your son is a citizen, but you have not applied for his citizen certificate.

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-29/page-1.html#h-81636


Persons who are citizens

• 3(1) Subject to this Act, a person is a citizen if
  • (a) the person was born in Canada after February 14, 1977;
  • (b) the person was born outside Canada after February 14, 1977 and at the time of his birth one of his parents, other than a parent who adopted him, was a citizen;
  • (c) the person has been granted or acquired citizenship pursuant to section 5 or 11 and, in the case of a person who is fourteen years of age or over on the day that he is granted citizenship, he has taken the oath of citizenship;
  • (c.1) the person has been granted citizenship under section 5.1;
  • (d) the person was a citizen immediately before February 15, 1977;
  • (e) the person was entitled, immediately before February 15, 1977, to become a citizen under paragraph 5(1)(b) of the former Act;
  • (f) before the coming into force of this paragraph, the person ceased to be a citizen for any reason other than the following reasons and did not subsequently become a citizen:

 

[armoured]

Your son is a citizen, but you have not applied for his citizen certificate.

Thank you - just a note I shouldn't have used the term 'undocumented' which gives completely incorrect impression, it's a loaded term I should have avoided.

 

[canuck78]

Yes, because the child hasn't applied for Canadian citizenship certificate yet. He doesn't have the certificate to get a Canadian passport.

You are misrepresenting your child’s immigration status which is immigration fraud. You are potentially creating problems for your child in the short term and longterm . As already indicated most countries allow.children to have 2 citizenships until adulthood. You need to apply for your child’s citizenship and should not use the ETA again. Not applying for citizenship is not an option your child HAS to apply if they want to enter Canada they can’t relinquish their citizenship until they are an adult. You seem to be under the impression that Canadian citizenship is optional and they can be a PR or foreign national. By not declaring that your child is Canadian citizen that is immigration fraud. Your child will also have difficulty accessing OHIP without proof they are a citizen.

 

[armoured]

You are misrepresenting your child’s immigration status which is immigration fraud. You are potentially creating problems for your child in the short term and longterm . As already indicated most countries allow.children to have 2 citizenships until adulthood. You need to apply for your child’s citizenship and should not use the ETA again. Not applying for citizenship is not an option your child HAS to apply if they want to enter Canada they can’t relinquish their citizenship until they are an adult. You seem to be under the impression that Canadian citizenship is optional and they can be a PR or foreign national. By not declaring that your child is Canadian citizen that is immigration fraud. Your child will also have difficulty accessing OHIP without proof they are a citizen.

Do take it down a notch. Yes, shouldn't have been done that way, but lay off the screeching about immigration fraud. I'm sure some trouble is hypothetically possible, but if you can't (and I'm quite sure you can't) show any cases where it's actually resulted in serious trouble, there's no need. They're not going to punish the child, and highly unlikely they'd take some action against a parent in this circumstance - at least beyond saying 'please don't do that again, you should have applied for the child's passport.'

 

[canuck78]

Do take it down a notch. Yes, shouldn't have been done that way, but lay off the screeching about immigration fraud. I'm sure some trouble is hypothetically possible, but if you can't (and I'm quite sure you can't) show any cases where it's actually resulted in serious trouble, there's no need. They're not going to punish the child, and highly unlikely they'd take some action against a parent in this circumstance - at least beyond saying 'please don't do that again, you should have applied for the child's passport.'

OP does not seem to be understanding that it is quite serious to try and avoid acknowledging their child’s Canadian citizenship which is why I was stressing that this is not optional, that he should not be using the ETA, that it was quite serious to be misrepresenting your status, etc. Every time people stressed this is not optional there was little recognition that this had to be done and that ETA was not an option. Don’t think they will go to jail but using terms like immigration fraud when it comes to things like misrepresenting your child’s citizenship underlines that it is serious and needs to be remedied. Now that OP knows better they need to pursue citizenship verification and get a Canadian passport for the child and not use the ETA that was incorrectly issued. If citizenship keeps on being misrepresented it will potentially become more complicated to resolve.

 

[armoured]

OP does not seem to be understanding that it is quite serious to try and avoid acknowledging their child’s Canadian citizenship which is why I was stressing that this is not optional, that he should not be using the ETA, that it was quite serious to be misrepresenting your status, etc. Every time people stressed this is not optional there was little recognition that this had to be done and that ETA was not an option. Don’t think they will go to jail but using terms like immigration fraud when it comes to things like misrepresenting your child’s citizenship underlines that it is serious and needs to be remedied. Now that OP knows better they need to pursue citizenship verification and get a Canadian passport for the child and not use the ETA that was incorrectly issued. If citizenship keeps on being misrepresented it will potentially become more complicated to resolve.

I take it you cannot, as I asked, provide evidence of a single case where some 'trouble has occurred' that remotely resembles your charge of 'immigration fraud'?

I thought as much.

Don't exaggerate. You say "ETA was not an option." The child already got an ETA and arrived in Canada, with no issues. So clearly it is an option - even if not recommended, and even if it might not always work.

And of course even in the (few) such cases where we've seen this happen (ETA issued or equivalent and child arrives at the border) AND it is discovered at the border, CBSA does not, of course, deny entry. They can't - the child is a citizen. It's a mistake, not 'immigration fraud.' I can't recall an instance where anything happened apart from telling them they should have/should apply for citizenship certificate.

You may not like it, but there do not appear to be serious repercussions of any kind. Stop exaggerating and pretending there are. It's not credible.

Now don't get me wrong: I have said repeatedly it's not recommended - everyone who's a citizen by birth should get their citizenship certificate, etc. There are some potential issues like ... the child could be denied boarding on a flight (hypothetically). They could revoke the ETA. And having the citizenship is better for schooling and OHIP. None of these resemble the consequences of 'immigration fraud.'

Not everyone needs to wear the hairshirt because you think they ought, and the bogeyman's not scary.